La Salette - true or false?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paul_Folbrecht
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Paul_Folbrecht

Guest
Hello,

To be brief, the extended prophecy of La Salette, published with the approval of the local bishop:

catholictradition.org/Mary/salette3.htm

was obviously false, for none of it came to pass, and a year was given - 1865 - for the birth of the antichrist.

So, I’m not confused. I’ve never before come upon a situation where I had cause to doubt the legitimacy of any apparition given Church approval. I trust the judgment of Mother Church, being protected from error in such matters.

Who can help me out here? Was this prophecy perhaps not legit while the apparitions were? Is it possible that somehow the bishop erred but this does not damage the Church’s credibility in discerning truth from error in private revelation?

Thanks in advance!
 
I personally think that 1865 marks the year that Bahá’u’lláh ushered in a totalitarianism of relativism…

His letter around this time were directed to…

Pope Pius IX
Emperor Napoleon III of France
Czar Alexander II of Russia
King Wilhelm I of Prussia
Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland
Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria-Hungary
Sultan ‘Abdu’l-‘Azíz of the Ottoman Empire
Násiri’d-Dín Sháh of the Persian Empire
Rulers of America and the Presidents of the Republics therein

I personally think Bahá’u’lláh is akin to the “false prophet” so to speak. The antichrist still awaits though… 😦
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
Hello,

To be brief, the extended prophecy of La Salette, published with the approval of the local bishop:

catholictradition.org/Mary/salette3.htm

was obviously false, for none of it came to pass, and a year was given - 1865 - for the birth of the antichrist.

So, I’m not confused. I’ve never before come upon a situation where I had cause to doubt the legitimacy of any apparition given Church approval. I trust the judgment of Mother Church, being protected from error in such matters.

Who can help me out here? Was this prophecy perhaps not legit while the apparitions were? Is it possible that somehow the bishop erred but this does not damage the Church’s credibility in discerning truth from error in private revelation?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
The Church does not approve the content of private revelations. Other than to decree that they likely occurred. That the revelation did not contain anything contrary to the Catholic Faith. It does not guarantee that they will come to pass.
 
There has been a great devotion to our Lady of LaSalette over the years. The parish in which I was raised was served by the Missionaries of Our Lady of LaSalette, a religious order of priests and brothers, from 1920’s until just recently.

Private revelation has never been “approved” by the Church as far as I know.

Matthew
 
A very good friend of mine is a priest in the LaSalette Order. One thing that disturbed was what he told me about the lives of the two children, Melanie and Maximin after the apparitions ended . I don’t remember the details, but Melanie, had nervous breakdown at some point and was in and out of institutions. Maximin, became an alcoholic and wandered the country and died in destitution.

This doesn’t fit the other visionaries like St. Bernadette, or the children of Fatima, who went on to live lives of holiness and service to God.

I don’t know the story of Lasalette well enough to comment further, but its one of the apparitions, I’m not comfortable with.
The other I have a major problem with, and I believe it may even be demonic, is the one at Garabandal Spain. The visionaries exhibited some real bazaar behavior, similar to those of possessed people.

Anyway, the only apparition I have a devotion to is Lourdes.

Jim
 
There is no doubt that Garabandal is false - that one has been condemned. Or at least not approved.

But La Salette was given approval and so I am troubled by these things as well. You are quite right about the visionaries - disturbing! Who could meet the Mother of God and yet sink so low? Then again, there’s Judas…

It was pointed out to me privately that it’s entirely possible that the AC was born in 1865, crazy as that may sound. He will have preternatural powers, no?

A Cardinal in Rome known as a mystic gave a sermon last year in which he stated that the Antichrist is now alive and walking the earth. I’m sorry I don’t have the reference.
 
Having a vision is no guarantee of personal holiness. Nor is it proof against emotional instability. We have still to deal with life as we live it. So the apparition should be judged apart from the person who has the vision.
Difficult in the best of times.

Matthew
 
drafdog said:
Having a vision is no guarantee of personal holiness. Nor is it proof against emotional instability. We have still to deal with life as we live it. So the apparition should be judged apart from the person who has the vision.
Difficult in the best of times.

Matthew
Click to expand...
The character of the “visionaries”, before and after the apparition, is given as a criterion of discernment of authenticity by the Church, for good reason, I think.

Providence will not allow such a miracle to a soul of less than exemplary holiness. Look at Bernadette, Sr. Lucy, Sr. Agnes of Akita.
 
St. John of the Cross was asked to evaluate a situation of a nun, who claimed to have visions from the Blessed Mother and Jesus.
St. John used a criteria for evaluating whether or not visionaries were in fact receiving a gift from heaven.

First, there must be a profound change of the person, toward holiness. In the case of this nun, it did not happen.

Second, the visionary must exhibit a humility, one that rejects the public affection and fame, that such claims are providing them with. This particular nun, enjoyed the popularity she was receiving.

There was more, but I don’t remember the rest. St. John claimed that the nun had made the story up, which she later confessed publicly to.

When I had the article at hand, I used it against LaSalette and Garanbandal. Neither met the criteria that John of the Cross laid out.

This of course doesn’t mean they did not and only the Church has the expertise in this matter.

However, during LaSalette, France was going through some anti-religious persecution. It may be that the Church was a little too quick to accept the visions of LaSalette. This of course is merely my opinion, and I’m a born skeptic. So take my words with a huge grain of salt. 🙂

Jim
 
Genuine apparitions leave a sign for generations to see. Lourdes, of course, has the water that springs without ceasing since it first came about. Even during severe droughts the spring at the Grotto never lessened its volume.

The crutches and other tools for invalids have been left there for all to see. St. Bernadette’s body remains incorrupt over a Century ago.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Genuine apparitions leave a sign for generations to see. Lourdes, of course, has the water that springs without ceasing since it first came about. Even during severe droughts the spring at the Grotto never lessened its volume.

The crutches and other tools for invalids have been left there for all to see. St. Bernadette’s body remains incorrupt over a Century ago.
Click to expand...
I have been to Lourdes and it is certainly something to see: There is Christ, and the Catholic Church in all her glory!
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
I have been to Lourdes and it is certainly something to see: There is Christ, and the Catholic Church in all her glory!
Click to expand...
Amen.

While there I had a strong sense of the Village of Lourdes being Our Lady’s village; an unexplainable ambiance. And YES…Jesus is always there…IN PERSON.
 
The La Salette apparition is one I have always had great difficulty in accepting. And I don’t. I’m not one to go around chasing after apparitions, but some of them simply feel right (Guadeloupe) and others don’t (La Salette).
 
Biblioassistant said:
The La Salette apparition is one I have always had great difficulty in accepting. And I don’t. I’m not one to go around chasing after apparitions, but some of them simply feel right (Guadeloupe) and others don’t (La Salette).
Click to expand...
I agree with you entirely, which is why it troubles me that the bishop granted publication of this message.

There is no way the published message is from God. It is childish language and strange euphemisms, is more ‘hostile’ than any other messages from the Virgin, and, of course, completely false prophecies.

Here is a good link:

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0001chap.asp
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
Hello,

To be brief, the extended prophecy of La Salette, published with the approval of the local bishop was obviously false, for none of it came to pass, and a year was given - 1865 - for the birth of the antichrist.

So, I’m not confused. I’ve never before come upon a situation where I had cause to doubt the legitimacy of any apparition given Church approval. I trust the judgment of Mother Church, being protected from error in such matters.

Who can help me out here? Was this prophecy perhaps not legit while the apparitions were? Is it possible that somehow the bishop erred but this does not damage the Church’s credibility in discerning truth from error in private revelation?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Part I

**It doesn’t mean that the prophecies did not come to pass. There is always PRAYER AND PENANCE which changes these, according to Our Lady. One needs to look at apparitions within a 75-year span of time from their event. That would take the fulfillment of the apparitions to about 1940.

The first prophecy: *“There will be a kind of false peace before the advent of Antichrist. Man’s only thought will be upon diversions and amusements. The wicked will indulge in all sorts of sin, but the children of the Holy Church, the children of the faith, my Sincere followers, will wax strong in the love of God and in the virtues that are dear to Me. Happy the humble souls that are guided by the Holy Ghost.” *

This is exactly what happened before the occurence of World War I. There was a false peace. The events leading up to that war happened quickly before plunging the war into a disaster that destroyed most social institutions and political systems. People do not realize just how devastating the first world war actually was.

The second prophecy: “Italy will be severely punished for her efforts to shake off the yoke of the Most High Lord. She will become the play-ball Of war. On every side blood will flow. The temples will either be closed or desecrated. Priests and members of Religious orders will be put to flight. They will be beaten to death and otherwise die cruel deaths.”

This prophecy warns about Italy. The papal states were taken away by Italy when it became a nation in 1870 - shaking off the ‘yoke’ of the Most High Lord, attempting to confine the Church to a piece of land we now known as the Vatican. The pope had to give up all of his temporal power. Our Lady is predicting an Italian civil war similar to what had taken place in France during the French Revolution. And there was an Italian civil war in the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies in 1860. It lasted ten years. During that time, about one million people, Neapolitans and Sicilians, were murdered by the Italian Army of occupation. The National Treasury of the Two Sicilies was robbed and appropriated to corrupt officials in the north of Italy under the House of Savoy. During this time, churches were desecrated, priests were murdered and religious fled.

The third prophecy: “The Vicar of My Son will be compelled to suffer much because for a time the Church will be delivered to great persecutions-----That will be the hour of darkness, and the Church will experience a frightful crisis. The powerful officials of the state and the Church will be suppressed and done away with, and all law and order as well as justice.”

This was all fulfilled during both world wars.**
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
Hello,

To be brief, the extended prophecy of La Salette, published with the approval of the local bishop was obviously false, for none of it came to pass, and a year was given - 1865 - for the birth of the antichrist.

So, I’m not confused. I’ve never before come upon a situation where I had cause to doubt the legitimacy of any apparition given Church approval. I trust the judgment of Mother Church, being protected from error in such matters.

Who can help me out here? Was this prophecy perhaps not legit while the apparitions were? Is it possible that somehow the bishop erred but this does not damage the Church’s credibility in discerning truth from error in private revelation?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Part 2

The fourth prophecy: “Priests and Religious shall be hunted; they shall be butchered in a cruel manner. Many shall abandon the Faith, and great shall be the number of Priests and Religious who shall separate themselves from the True Religion; among these there will be found likewise several bishops.”

This prophecy alludes to a possible schism within the Church itself. The truth of the matter is, many bishops and priests were at odds with the Church and the pope prior to 1940 in Europe because of their association with Freemasonry which is why even Pope Pius XII advanced the idea of continuing a second Vatican Council, later implemented by John XXIII.

The fifth prophecy: “Let the Pope be upon his guard against miracle workers, for the time is arrived when the most astounding prodigies will take place on the earth and in the air.”

When we think of “miracle workers” we think of physical healers. I believe that this prophecy is two-fold: the rise of the medical field, and the rise of technology which results in miracles “in the air” (airplanes, such as used in the first world war, and later fighter planes and rockets).

The sixth prophecy:Lucifer, with a very great number of demons will be unchained from Hell. By degrees they shall abolish the Faith, even among persons consecrated to God. They shall blind them in such a manner that, without very special graces, these persons shall imbibe the spirit of those wicked angels. Many religious houses will entirely lose the Faith, and shall be the cause of the loss of many persons. The Superiors of Religious Communities should be alert regarding the ones they take into the community, for the devil will use all malice, to bring persons into the Orders who are addicted to sin."

This prophecy warns of the rise of secularism which has enveloped western civilization as well as the western church for decades now. And also, think of the recent scandal in the Church.
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
Hello,

To be brief, the extended prophecy of La Salette, published with the approval of the local bishop was obviously false, for none of it came to pass, and a year was given - 1865 - for the birth of the antichrist.

So, I’m not confused. I’ve never before come upon a situation where I had cause to doubt the legitimacy of any apparition given Church approval. I trust the judgment of Mother Church, being protected from error in such matters.

Who can help me out here? Was this prophecy perhaps not legit while the apparitions were? Is it possible that somehow the bishop erred but this does not damage the Church’s credibility in discerning truth from error in private revelation?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Part 3

The sixth prophecy:Lucifer, with a very great number of demons will be unchained from Hell. By degrees they shall abolish the Faith, even among persons consecrated to God. They shall blind them in such a manner that, without very special graces, these persons shall imbibe the spirit of those wicked angels. Many religious houses will entirely lose the Faith, and shall be the cause of the loss of many persons. The Superiors of Religious Communities should be alert regarding the ones they take into the community, for the devil will use all malice, to bring persons into the Orders who are addicted to sin."

This prophecy warns of the rise of secularism which has enveloped western civilization as well as the western church for decades now. And also, think of the recent scandal in the Church.

The seventh prophecy: “Bad people will abound upon the earth; and the spirit, of darkness shall spread over the earth a universal relaxation about everything relating to the Service of God. Satan shall have very great power over nature [God’s punishment for the crimes of men]; temples will be erected for the worship of these demons.”

This prophecy warns of the rise of what we now call New Age as well as occult religions, such as Wicca, Satan worship, shamanism, and ancient god worship, which abounds today throughout the world.

The eighth prophecy: “In every place there shall be seen extraordinary prodigies, because the True Faith has been extinguished, and a pale light shines in the world.”

This prophecy is fulfilled in false apparitions throughout the world which have reached a level unknown in former ages.

The ninth prophecy: “In the year 1865 the abomination shall be seen in Holy Places, in Convents, and then the demon shall make himself as the king of hearts…”

This prophecy warns of dangerous ideas to the Faith which will infiltrate holy places and even religious houses. In fact, what was happening in the intellectual circle of the Church so alarmed Pope Leo XIII that he eventually issued his encyclical “Rerum Novarum” (1891) as both a shot across the bow and a warning to both the Church’s intellectuals and the world about modern errors of thought. The birth of antiChrist is reflective of what is contained in the book of Revelation, and that is open to interpretation. I think personally that this had to do with the ‘birth’ of Communism.

The tenth prophecy: “The seasons of the year will change…Earthquakes will also devour whole countries… demons will work great false miracles on earth and in the air. Voices will be heard in the air. Then men will desert Religion and become worse and worse. Men will let themselves be deceived because they refused to adore the real Christ.”

One could interpret this to mean various things - global warming comes to mind, and also radio/TV broadcasts which bring the most heinous sins into various cultures of the world.

In any event, these prophecies are straight out of the book of Revelation. And there is some suspicion as to whether or not some of these were ‘added’ to the original messages of La Salette. But, if one discerns the prophecies closely, one will see that most, if not all, have been readily fulfilled in our day, and probably more will be fulfilled in the future. In that case, La Salette is eternal, and is also a special gift given to the Church prior to a time of great crisis.
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
There is no doubt that Garabandal is false - that one has been condemned. Or at least not approved.

But La Salette was given approval and so I am troubled by these things as well. You are quite right about the visionaries - disturbing! Who could meet the Mother of God and yet sink so low? Then again, there’s Judas…

It was pointed out to me privately that it’s entirely possible that the AC was born in 1865, crazy as that may sound. He will have preternatural powers, no?
Click to expand...
This could explain it… But as for me (This is my personal speculation) many times the Antichrist has incarnated, each time gaining power. From Nimrod, to Julian the Apostate, to Fredrick, to Hitler… Until he finally brings his father’s (Satan’s) will to fruition, becoming the Emperor of the Earth.
A Cardinal in Rome known as a mystic gave a sermon last year in which he stated that the Antichrist is now alive and walking the earth. I’m sorry I don’t have the reference.
Click to expand...
I think he certainly could have multiple incarnations.
 
Originally Posted by** Paul Folbrecht **
There is no doubt that Garabandal is false - that one has been condemned. Or at least not approved.

**The apparitions of Our Lady of Garabandal, Spain, have NEVER been proved false, nor have they EVER been condemned. It remains open until the fulfillment of all prophecied events. In fact, in a recent letter from Carlos Osoro Sierra, who is Archbishop of Oviedo and who served as interim Apostolic Administrator of the Diocese of Santander, he stated:

"What I have done now is authorize priests to go to Garabandal and celebrate Mass there at whatever hour they desire and to administer the Sacrament of Reconciliation to as many people who desire it there.

"I am sure that the next bishop will advance the studies of the Garabandal events so they may be examined more deeply with the results being sent to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome.

“I respect the apparitions and have known of authentic conversions. In light of these events, how can we not always feel the need to open our hearts to our mother Mary to tell her that we need her protection, help, spirit, desire, faith, hope, and love!”

This was signed on May 7, 2007.

Hardly false! And hardly condemned!**
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top