Lack of a physical relationship between a married couple

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Oops, I also understand that there’s something much deeper at play here, than simply physical intimacy. I.e., her refusal to cuddle with you. That would be a way to express her love for you, even without sexual intercourse.

 

[Nan_S]

John,

I’m going to jump in here with a bit of a sympathetic shoulder for you to lean on. Platonically, of course, because I’m female.

“Chaste” means to abstain from sexual relations. “Celibate” means unmarried. In my case, despite what the paperwork says, I feel like both terms apply to my marriage.

Marital relations decreased in frequency over the years until I could count the intervals in months. And finally I forgot how many months it had been. I would be sweet, suggestive, discreet. I would play to his moods, sometimes subtle, sometimes not-so-subtle. He got the message, and rejected it. “Go away. Leave me alone. I’m not in the mood. Later. Can’t you pick a better time? I’m trying to sleep [this one at mid-day on a Saturday].” I let him know I was ready whenever he liked. All he had to do was pick the time. I made myself ready and I waited.

The last time he made an effort was at a couples’ marriage renewal retreat. Prior to that event relations had been at intervals of six to twelve months, since then I have been living in a desert. I recently found a book I purchased at that retreat. I had used the receipt as a bookmark; it was dated four and a half years ago.

The only physical affection I have gotten for the last four-and-a-half years has been a passionate public kiss at Sunday mass, during the Sign of Peace. It’s all done for show. It’s an empty promise, done to boost his public image. There’s nothing behind it. I have come to loathe that kiss.

I signed up for a marriage. This is not a marriage. This is a parisitical “mother with adult son” relationship. I pay the major bills and provide the necessities of life. He works enough to pay for his gasoline, cigarettes, booze, and some groceries, and to qualify for unemployment checks. Otherwise he does as he pleases. He likes it just fine this way. Some years ago we tried marriage counseling. That ended when he let me know he felt no need to change anything, and insisted that the sessions be scheduled at the worst possible times for me.

In my case I’m dealing with an alcoholic spouse. There’s no infidelity involved, unless you consider his lifelong affair with the bottle to be infidelity. It might as well be.

I finally went to the priest for individual counseling. I laid it all out, all the grief, all the fruitless efforts, all the despair. I cried all over him. I admitted that I would find it a relief if God would bring everything to a premature end. The priest advised me that a marriage requires two and only two. My marriage has always had three in it. That third is alcohol, and “she” was his mistress long before he ever met me. Then he suggested I go see a lawyer about taking the necessary steps to protect myself.

So, now what happens?

There’s a lot more to this story, of course. There always is. Financial irresponsibility. Legal problems. And the children, now grown, but emotionally scarred.

After all this, I still wish him well. I still want him to be the good morally upright Christian man I always believed he could be. But I have come to realize that it is foolish to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I have given him support and opportunity, in many many ways. It was my duty as a Christian wife.

But if I am ever to see him change, I know now that I have to force him to stand on his own feet. The only remaining way to do that is to rip the hammock out from underneath him. In not-so-subtle terms, that means a divorce.

 

[mommamaree]

To John and Nan,

Reading your stories just broke my heart for you both. I will pray for you.


Sincerely,
mommamaree

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Instead of trying to fix her libido is there anything that you can do to simply kill yours? You can go see a doctor about it and maybe he can give you something. You can also try to exhaust yourself with exercise so that there is less of a physical need. It is hard fate to accept but I think if you work on it you will find the strength.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

This is so heartbreaking to read, Nan. And also John’s story. Your spouses are starving you emotionally, too, not only by way of withholding physical relations. There’s no tenderness in what you describe happening in your marriage, your husband saying “go away” in such a rude manner.

 

[JohnVIII]

Oops, I also understand that there’s something much deeper at play here, than simply physical intimacy. I.e., her refusal to cuddle with you. That would be a way to express her love for you, even without sexual intercourse.

Hello my friend Joseph!

I see you found me hiding over here in another forum category. Thanks for finding me here and for praying for my wife and I. By the way, my wife’s name is Cynthia. (Oh, and my real name is Adrian. I use JohnVIII as a ‘handle’)

Yes I did start this tread with the title Lack of a physical relationship… and I seem to be stuck with it as that is the main thrust (bad pun) of alot of the replies. But it really is true that the need to not be celibate is not just a physical need. It really is a need to have a physiological & emotional relationship with someone of the opposite sex. The physical seemed alot more important when I was younger, but I think that even then - if a man can live without an emotional or physiological attachment to a woman he can also live without the sex, no matter how strong the physical drive is, I think.

My wife does have alot of physical problems to the point that if we tried to have sex we might not even be able to do so. But my wife and I also have alot of emotional problems, like issues with trust, and such. And, let me tell you, I would gladly have the physical problems over the emotional ones! If everything except the physical was good I’m sure we could work it all out. But I don’t know if there is any hope left at this point or not. That’s why I felt it might in fact be merciful to just go for the divorce now rather than have things just slowly get worse and worse, with more sins along the way and then have in end up in divorce eventually anyway. If I know for a fact that this is what would happen it sure would save alot of pain down the road if I did.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Catholics can never engage in oral sex per say. We can engage in oral foreplay but it must always end with the possibility of giving life even if the couple is unable to have children. If the wife is unable to reach a climax either before or during intercourse the husband can then help his wife to reach an orgasm.

You ignored the part about anal sex. perhaps you’ve done it?
disgusting.

 

[Zeemeermin]

“Chaste” means to abstain from sexual relations.

IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT!!!

Chaste means that you are using your sexuality in the appropriate, moral way according to your calling and station in life. I am married, and when my husband is not deployed, I have tons of great sex. I am chaste! Because my sexuality is being used in the context for which it was designed. Married sexual activity is chaste.

Singles are called to abstinence, and that is their form of chastity.

 

[mommamaree]

IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT!!!

Chaste means that you are using your sexuality in the appropriate, moral way according to your calling and station in life. I am married, and when my husband is not deployed, I have tons of great sex. I am chaste! Because my sexuality is being used in the context for which it was designed. Married sexual activity is chaste.

Singles are called to abstinence, and that is their form of chastity.

Thank you Zeemeermin, for correcting that misunderstanding. The definition that poster supplied of chastity and celibacy got a couple of points wrong, and it really troubled me. We spent a lot of time in RCIA learning to use those terms appropriately, and while I know when to use which term, I couldn’t come up with an explanation to share here. You did what I could not do here. We are all called to chastity, single or married.

 

[dailey]

Instead of trying to fix her libido is there anything that you can do to simply kill yours? You can go see a doctor about it and maybe he can give you something. You can also try to exhaust yourself with exercise so that there is less of a physical need. It is hard fate to accept but I think if you work on it you will find the strength.

His wife has issues that need to be addressed. “Killing” his libido will not fix the relationship…

 

[Zeemeermin]

Wow… I missed that post from Kostya before. What kind of Catholic advocates purposely damaging one’s body and psyche? Sexuality, sexual drive, the desire to be united with one’s spouse physically, is a GIFT from God! It is immoral to suggest that someone should purposely damage himself, destroy and throw away a gift from God. It may be a challenging gift to integrate, but one throws away God’s gifts at one’s peril. What a horrifying suggestion.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

His wife has issues that need to be addressed. “Killing” his libido will not fix the relationship…

He has absolutely no control over what his wife does and I seriously doubt she is going to change. The only thing that he can do is change the way that he approaches the problem.

 

[onmyknees]

Lack of marital sex is about more than the “lovey dovey” feelings being gone. And marital sex is about much, much more than “lovey dovey” feelings. That post is insulting and so very minimizing of a very important issue. Boo.

*Necessary *suffering can be redemptive. Unnecessary suffering is just cruelty and remedy should be sought.

I am sorry but I did not mean for my post to be insulting or minimizing to his very heavy cross. I take a long time trying to write my posts because I am not good at putting my thoughts into words at all. I would be very embarrassed to tell you how long it takes because I am always worried that it will not be very good. I think I did not include any empathy in the post because everyone else had already been so kind to him. I just wanted to help him! That was my only intent. I cried when I read your response to me. It really hurt my feelings. I was trying to say that after the lovey dovey feelings subside there will almost always be a cross to carry, big or small.

 

[onmyknees]

Thank you Joseph for the kind words. It really helped lift my spirits.

 

[onmyknees]

If I could handle it I think Boo ([user]onmyknees[/user]) is right. And I think “Unnecessary suffering” can be redemptive too if I could accept it with the right attitude. In the Book, “The Ladder of Divine Assent”, it quotes the scripture: “…be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke…” (2 Timothy 4:2) and says that the spiritual interpretation “out of season” means to receive rebuke gladly when in is undeserved. But can I handle it? I really don’t think that I can!

Thank you for your prayers, I need them! I really do want to say that I think you are right. But once again I don’t think I can handle this, and more importantly, I don’t think my wife can handle it either! I have tried to take the hard road so many times in the past that I even had “a saying” that goes, “The hard way is always the only why”. But I fear that I will surly fail at this, and the result of my failure is alot of hurt to my wife. I need to protect her, but if I see alot of pain coming her way, and that so because of my probable failure, how then can I not do something to protect her?

Hi, I am sorry if I was not very empathetic to your situation in my last post.

I would like to help you here. You have tried the hard road so many times which must have been very tough.

John, When you say, (“I don’t think I can handle this and I don’t think my wife can handle it either.” and “But I fear that I will surly fail at this.”) I wonder if you have thought about giving it all to God. Could you ask Him to do this for you because you are helpless without Him? I also like the advice someone gave you about praying together with your wife. Would she be open to try this? Maybe you have already tried it. If not, I cannot think of a more beautiful thing to do with your spouse. I don’t know how that would feel because my dh is not religious so I have never experienced it myself. I would think that it would bring you two together in the hope that comes only from the Lord. God bless.

 

[Tiribulus]

To John and Nan,

Reading your stories just broke my heart for you both. I will pray for you.


Sincerely,
mommamaree

Indeed. I don’t know if I shoulda registered at this forum or not. Reading people’s burdens is really effecting me. I mean I’m 46 years old, I’m not naive, but what these people are going through has me really messed up at times.

 

[mommamaree]

Indeed. I don’t know if I shoulda registered at this forum or not. Reading people’s burdens is really effecting me. I mean I’m 46 years old, I’m not naive, but what these people are going through has me really messed up at times.

Tiribulus,
I handle it like this…we all have our own crosses to bear, and we can pray for each other and lift each other up with encouraging words. Whenever I read something so sad, I offer up a prayer for that person as soon as I read their story. I believe God can use our ‘arrow prayers’ to help people in distress and suffering. So I let go and let God. Know what I mean? Don’t fret or obsess, because the reality is, we cannot fix these problems for each other. Only God can do that, and God wants our prayers. I actually experience joy when connecting with others here at CAF, even though we often bring our grief and sorrow here to share, too. But take a break if you need to. CAF is purely an at your leisure sort of social interaction. I myself have taken very long breaks from CAF until I was more rested in mind and heart.

 

[Roger1]

John,

You wife may vary well have Boardeline Personality Disorder. Please read my threads from a couple of months ago and see what you think.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=450269

bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

“Borderline Personality Disorder is a relatively recent addition to the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Accordingly, the majority of practicing mental health professionals graduating prior to 2000 have not been trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of this complex disorder as part of their professional curriculum.”

There are 1-2hr. questionnaires that the Professionals use to determine if someone is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here are some of the symptoms;

Mother In Law used a lot of shame to raise my wife and her siblings:

“Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.”

“Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.”

“Mothers with BPD, for instance, are characteristically volatile and have difficulty controlling intense, inappropriate anger that is often precipitated by environmental changes and/or intense abandonment fears. Their strong outbursts of anger can be detrimental to the developing child, and many children of mothers with BPD are victims of verbal and/or physical abuse. Suggest that “a mother’s hostility, rage, and destructive behavior may be disguised as love, making it difficult for a child to trust his or her own perceptions of reality.”

“Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others.”

“a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…oz#post6554190

Read page 5 of the Thread above.

 

[JohnVIII]

…Who wrote that book, The Ladder of Divine Ascent?

St John Clamacus. The book was written for monks. It is a step by step explanation on how to struggle with passions and evil thoughts. Passions are grouped in different categories and dealt with one by one.

 

[whm]

John I have been through some of the same things you and your wife are going through. I somewhat suspect as others that your wife may have suffered abuse before your marriage, her reactions are very typical of this (sexual desire drops after marriage, reaction to your purity problem, unwilling to discuss issue, unwilling to participate in counseling, lack of trust, never ending/everchanging list of maladies/excuses etc)

Given her reluctance to go to counseling (highly recommend a priest for this btw), you can best help yourself and her by not pushing sexual relations whatsoever. It will help her rebuild trust in you, she may see men as attackers and not trust their intentions. It will help you remain pure. Also you should avoid all questionable tv, movies, music, internet, radio etc. Do not do any of these things alone, always watch TV or movies with together. Turn off shows with sexual dress or content in her presence. She will start to make the connection that it is not normal to be in a sexless marriage and that these types of things bother you when you see them. You are in an extraordinarily difficult position, being married to a person you are attracted to, but can not have relations with. Extreme measures are needed or you will continue to be confronted with strong temptations. In addition, pray the rosary every day, go to confession often and attend a holy hour of adoration at least once a week.

Also, know all of what has happened to you is going according to satan’s plan (starting with the abuse/rap if it occurred). Ask Christ to be on your side and you can protect your wife, yourself and your marriage from the evil ones plans for your destruction.

You may also want to check out the following private group here on CAF.
forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=369
There is a ton of great advice and support for those sincerely attempting to overcome impurity issues.