Lack of community loses Souls

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MichelleTherese

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I know we always discuss theological apologetics in here but I’d like to submit a non-theological post that still has a lot to do with us Catholics. I’ve noticed that even as we have the fullness of the Truth…we are seriously lacking in a fullness of community. I’m just as guilty as any one else since I have no idea what is taking place in the lives of my fellow parishoners. Isn’t that sad? I think so.

For two weeks my mother, dying of cancer, needed round-the-clock care and being an EMT I was one of the main persons involved in that care. Then, she peacefully died. I was struck down by a bad case of strep throat and have spent the past two weeks in bed sick. In all, 4 long weeks of intense suffering have passed. Let’s study my case simply because I’m experiencing it and can’t mess up the details. My parish here and also back in Alaska was aware of my mother’s condition. Both parishes had my contact information and many of the people had met me in person several times and know me. Here’s what transpired:

#1 Not one person in my parish called me or visited me or in any way offered support while I was caring for my mother.

#2 Not one person in my parish expressed any kind of sympathies after my mother passed away.

#3 Not one person in my parish has called or visited me in my time of mourning.

#4 Not one person in my parish has aided me in my own illness.

Now, this is not a big Michelle Pity Party. This is an examination of some facts that I think we Catholics need to become aware of. I can turn this thing right around on it’s head:

#1 Not once have I checked in on, supoorted or aided a fellow Parishoner who is suffering illness, stress, loss of a loved one etc.

#2 Not once have I visited a lonely widow of the Parish, donated extra money to a person in my Parish down on their luck or even so much as offered a ride to Mass to someone in my Parish.

I could go on and on and on.

Why is this? What on earth causes us Catholics (in many many parishes) to stay so disconnected from one another? Why do we sit around and say, “Well, I don’t have to because there’s a Committee that takes care of this stuff” ??

We Catholics spend so much of our time arguing Biblical evidence and historical proofs for our doctrines - yet how much time to we spend attempting to act towards our fellow parishoners with just a dose of “Christian Charity”? No wonder there are so many ex-Catholics in places like Mormon churches and Evangelical churches. Think of what these churches do when they get word of a fellow parishoner suffering: they swarm. I often attended a friend’s Evangelical church in Alaska in the morning - (and then went to Mass at night) - so that I could have some kind of Christian social life. How sad is that? And when things went wrong in my life who do you think came swarming to my aid?? (And vice versa.) The Evangelicals!! And when any of them were in trouble I helped them out as well. My fellow Catholics would be aware of what was going on but not once did any of them knock on my door or pick up the phone - and they aren’t doing so now. Instead, my Evangelical friends in Alaska are the ones reaching out to me.

No wonder people leave. And no wonder they really honestly don’t care about Biblical proofs and historical teachings of the Church. When your mom dies and no one even batts an eye in your Catholic church while swarms of Mormons aid your friend when HER mom dies…it says a lot. If a person is not extremely grounded in the Eucharist like I am then I can see how they can pack up and leave. And trust me, I’m tempted. I find myself saying, “If I was Mormon…If I was Evangelical…I’d not have had to endure four weeks of living hell totally ALONE. Spiritually and physically ALONE.”

Giving folk the usual Cathlolic response of “offer it up” just doesn’t cut it. And good apologetics doesn’t do it all either. We also need that strong sense of community that we are so sorely lacking - for no logical reason on this planet.
 
I don’t know what the answer is, but I would say your experience is pretty typical for those who have suffered loss, illness and grief. The silence from fellow parishioners is resounding. And I’m not any better at it than anyone else. People show more community spirit on these forums than they do in person.
 
First of all let me offer my condolences for the loss of your beloved mother. I too have lost my mother (and my father) and so understand the pain you are going through.

With all the love and sympathy in the world for you, I have to point out your confession that you have never done for others at your parish what you would have liked them to do for you. That might be part of it. How many real friendships have you developed in your parish? Are you involved in any small groups or programs of the parish? I think the old saying: “In order to have friends you have to make friends” may apply here.

Also, as a former Evangelical I can tell you that what they have been doing for you isn’t mere Christian charity–it is called “love bombing,” a technique for getting people into their sect. But once in, you would be expected to toe the mark, step in march and not complain about any loss of your personal freedoms. This is the voice of experience. I don’t doubt there are some among these Evangelicals that really do care, but that is probably more because you have made friends with them than because of their religious affiliation.
 
The problem is large parishes and the solution is small groups. Start a Bible study or some other function where you can get a group of people to become closer to one another.
 
I agree- this is a problem. People seem to go into the church right before Mass begins (or if they get there early, it is to pray- not to talk to anyone), and leave right after it’s over- or right after communion (or if they stay later, it is only to pray). They may sit next to the same person for years, and never know their name. That person could be really hurting, and no one seems to care- they may pray for them- but they are in a position to be an answer to a prayer- they need someone to talk to. They may even see someone they see in Mass every week somewhere else, like at the grocery store, or school- and not even recognize them. You can talk about the truth of Catholicism, and have reverent liturgies, but when you’re sick or hurt or depressed, and no one calls you or visits you, or even smiles at you or talks to you after Mass, reverence and doctrines really don’t matter much.
 
Trust me, I have plenty of friends and I’m in plenty of groups like choir for instance, and the Catholic Student Association. It’s not that Catholics don’t know one another. The proof is in the pudding here: even when we know one another we abandon each other at our hour of need. I know how Christ felt when He stood sweating blood from his suffering and stress and his diciples were sound asleep.

This isn’t about me. This is about a serious problem in the Church. Starting a bible study group or yet another committe is NOT going to solve this problem. That’s probably what causes this problem: since there are committees and groups we all excuse ourselves from living out Christian charity by saying, “Someone else has it covered.”

And I don’t think that it’s fair to assume that the only reason non-Catholic Christians are nice and kind and loving and supportive of one another is so that they can suck you in and brainwash you. I honestly believe these good Christian folks are acting out of love for Christ - the way we should be as well but are not.
 
I don’t know what the problem is in your church…I have friends in my church, especially daily Mass. When they miss two or three days, I call them. The others whom I consider more acquaintances, if they miss many days and return, I ask if everything was alright. If they’re gone really long, I ask Father if everything is alright. And it’s not just me. I went away on retreat for 7 days and when I returned, I found out my acquaintances asked a friend of mine if I were okay.

So at least you can be assured it’s not all parishes that are like that. But I can say I don’t nose in on acquaintances but I assume their friends are taking care of them, but my friends I most certainly get in touch with.

And if you’re not in daily Mass, how would anyone know you were gone (except the choir should obviously know) and not just attending one of the other numerous services? I’d have no clue about Sunday parisioners because, well, I only occasionally see them at a Sunday Mass.

And this comment, " honestly believe these good Christian folks are acting out of love for Christ - the way we should be as well but are not." Are you insinuating somehow that Catholics are less charitable because they’re Catholics? Community is nice and all, but considering what we have in the Church, I would never want to focus more on vommunity like it seems a lot of non-Catholic churches do…maybe you just need to actually make friends, the kind that you call outside of Mass just for coffee, breakfast, lunch, etc.

Penitent
 
I think this thread should go either in Family Life or Spirituality.

By the way,
We Catholics spend so much of our time arguing Biblical evidence and historical proofs for our doctrines - yet how much time to we spend attempting to act towards our fellow parishoners with just a dose of “Christian Charity”? No wonder there are so many ex-Catholics in places like Mormon churches and Evangelical churches.
  1. It sounds like you’re almost trying to justify Catholics leaving the Church and going to other churches. (You may not be, you might just be making an observation, but I just want to make a clarification). Feeling like there is no strong community in your Church is no excuse for leaving the Catholic Church for another denomination. A strong community can’t make something true which isn’t.
  2. Proving and discussing our doctrines is an act of charity itself. (Again, you might not have been saying that it’s not charity, I just want to clarify). It helps to strengthen people’s faith and makes them less susceptible to conversion.
  3. Catholics are charitable to one another… I bet if you asked for something, people in your parish would be only too happy to help. But sometimes, people don’t really like to be disturbed and so the parish just leaves them alone. You obviously do like to have people around all the time, but there are probably people in the evangelical churches who would rather that people didn’t ‘try to help’ (ie, bother them) and aren’t all that happy about people’s attempts to be ‘over-charitable’ (if you know what I mean).
Not trying to be unsympathetic here, just sticking up for Catholics (-:
 
Dear Michelle Therese,

Hello, it’s nice to meet you. * bows a friendly introductory greeting *

First, please accept my condolences on the loss of your mother. Be assured that I will pray for her and for you.

Please allow me to back up everything you’re saying with my own experience, which is very similar to yours.

Am going to register tomorrow at a somewhat smaller Catholic parish in the hopes it will be friendlier than my current parish so that I can make some Catholic friends. After spending 10 years in a parish where I have in fact been active in pro-life, Christ Renews His Parish, and even hosted the Renewal group’s Christmas party in my home without having a single friend in the parish after all this, it’s time to look elsewhere, seeing that the awesome pro-life pastor who provided excellent sermons for 9 of those 10 years has retired.

I have a Methodist friend and a Jehovah’s Witness friend. And interestingly enough, having just started a Japanese class up at the university, there’s a pagan who is now acting friendly towards me.

No, I will never give up Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist … I will always remain a steadfast Catholic. And I can still be active at pro-life events no matter which parish I’m a member of. That said, being intensely loyal to the Pope and the teachings of the Church, it makes me wonder why those hostile to my faith treat me better than those who share my faith.

If you’d like, Michelle, please feel welcome to drop me a PM. Sure Ohio’s a long distance away from Alaska. But then again, it’s only as far away as writing a message and pressing the SEND button! (Plus, I’m a huge fan of Alaska, both for having some way cool relatives there, and what with all the marvelous landscape pictures posted at my favorite weather website.) 🙂

~~ the phoenix
 
It’s interesting how all this is immediately blamed on me. Yes, I do attend daily Mass thanks. No, I am not trying to justify Catholics leaving the faith. No, I don’t want people around me all of the time. No, I’m not insinuating Catholics are less charitable because they are Catholic. Finally, I do have friends thank you kindly.

Now that that is cleared up, let me return to what this post is really about. The lack of community. I’ve belonged to many Catholic parishes as I’ve lived all over the world and I’ve seen this same lack of community at every single parish. It is a problem and it should be solved not by blaming the individual but by getting to know our fellow Parishoners on a more personal level. Protestants do this so why can’t we? If a person’s mother dies or they get a divorce or their child is ill how on earth can we justify no one visiting or callng them or simply asking them if they are OK because they’ve disapeared? That just blows me away. And a person shouldn’t have to attend Daily Mass in order to be known. Lots of folks don’t have the time because they are working or are in class or that’s when they have to drop the kids off at school.
“After spending 10 years in a parish…without having a single friend in the parish…” What are we doing that allows this to happen?
 
hello…prayers for you and yours at this sad time- keep remembering that you are in the Mystical Body of Christ and that includes all those who have gone ahead of us and the saints , so you are in good company. It can be so lonely-but you are never alone-perhaps this experience of isolation is God’s way of giving you a vision of what community should be like -maybe He will use you to help comfort someone else-nothing is wasted in God-He lets us suffer for a reason—do take very good care of yourself-you are precious in His eyes- I was particularly moved to write this when i noticed that you are so pro-life–you are advocating for the very least of HIs children-just keep looking in Jesus’ eyes and let him steer the boat for you…
 
I am not sure what your parish is like. But in mine we have over 4300 families. I attend many masses where other than the celebrants (priest, deacons etc.), I don’t see anyone I know. Sometimes I do, but It’s like knowing your friends are in the mall … somewhere. If it’s people that I am only aquaintances with, I have NO WAY of knowing (unless I accidently encounter the information), whether they haven’t been coming (I would assume they were at a different Mass.)

I have noticed a more “involved” attitude among some of the more evangelical churches, but I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that these Churches are smaller. My cousins Pentecostal Church who had about 35 families. They were “all over you” to a fault. Like they were trying to suck your blood or something. Would make me feel claustrophobic.

I don’t know, I like being able to focus on God, instead of who I am going to see there, and what is going on in everyone elses lives. There are two people in my parish that I consider my friends (talk on the phone, have coffee). And I think my parish is THE BEST!! So alive, with such wonderful parishioners.

I think in the instance with a larger Church, it may be necessary to let your needs be known, instead of hoping people will just “know” you need help. I know in my situation, if I was going through a crisis, my FRIENDS would be there for me. How could I expect the average joe in the pew to know? But if I asked, I have no doubt people would come to help me, even people I don’t know from the parish, with a generous, loving and charitable heart.

Let your parish priest know you need support. I bet he knows just who to contact. Probably someone like in one of the previous posts, that asks the priest if there is anyone who needs help. Just a matter of them knowing you need them.

May God be generous in His consolations during this time of grief for you.

God bless.
 
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Ana:
I don’t know, I like being able to focus on God, instead of who I am going to see there, and what is going on in everyone elses lives. There are two people in my parish that I consider my friends (talk on the phone, have coffee). And I think my parish is THE BEST!! So alive, with such wonderful parishioners.
Dear Ana,

In my case, I stuck with my unfriendly parish for 10 years precisely because of my focus on God. We had an awesome pro-life pastor who provided excellent orthodox sermons. Now that the pastor has retired, my focus on God has led me to search for a new parish. Meanwhile, I can always HOPE the new parish will be friendlier, right?

Also, you say you have two people in your parish you consider friends (talk on the phone, have coffee). If I’d had that, I would have considered my old parish wonderful, just like you. Heck, I would’ve settled for even one Catholic friend.

~~ the phoenix
 
the phoenix:
Dear Ana,

In my case, I stuck with my unfriendly parish for 10 years precisely because of my focus on God. We had an awesome pro-life pastor who provided excellent orthodox sermons. Now that the pastor has retired, my focus on God has led me to search for a new parish. Meanwhile, I can always HOPE the new parish will be friendlier, right?

Also, you say you have two people in your parish you consider friends (talk on the phone, have coffee). If I’d had that, I would have considered my old parish wonderful, just like you. Heck, I would’ve settled for even one Catholic friend.

~~ the phoenix
I understand. One of the reasons I am so satisfied with my two Catholic friends is because for so long, I didn’t have one. I prayed for YEARS for a good CATHOLIC friend. Like you, most of my friends are non-Catholic. They are wonderful, but there IS something special about having friends that share your faith.
 
I have to agree on this…I’ve been in the Church for nearly 2 years (converted Easter '04, started RCIA a few months beforehand) and only one person has reached out to my husband and me. He’s an older gentleman…very kind.

Unfortuantely that doesn’t replace having friends to hang out with. We even tried attending a Bible study at our Church. We went for about 6 weeks and no one hardly even talked to us (I’m really smiley and like to talk to people…have never been in a situation like that before).

Since then I’ve gotten a couple of penpals that are Catholic, but as for friends…they’re all Protestant…and yes, I am very blessed to know they’ll always be there for me when I hit a rough spot in life.

Something really does need to be done. As Catholics, we all need to be there for each other…aren’t we supposed to be one big family? :confused:
 
I think the answer is pretty simple, actually–reach out yourself to other people. It’s very easy for us to sit back and wait for others to come to us, but we really need to do our part to make other people welcome in our parish. I’ve been at my parish for about six years now; the first three I just went to Sunday Mass, went home, and wondered why no one was reaching out to me. Then, I decided a couple of years ago to attend the annual women’s retreat we have. I’m a pretty shy person, and really didn’t know anyone going, but I made myself go anyway. It was such a wonderful experience. My roommate was a woman who had just moved to the area. Since that time, I’ve gotten more involved, and my parish has really become my second home; I can go to any one of our 4 Masses and know someone there.

In the last couple of years, too, I’ve tried to reach out to new people. Something as simple as just saying “Hi, how are you?” can start up a nice conversation. If any of ya’ll’s churches are like mine, 20 people at daily Mass is a huge crowd. If there’s someone there who sits by themselves, doesn’t talk much to others, reach out to them. Ask them out for coffee after Mass.

I’m truly sorry for all that you’ve gone through, Michelle, and I hope my message hasn’t sounded blaming, b/c I don’t mean it that way at all. But, we all really need to be taking the first steps towards creating community within our parishes. Maybe what you and others are thinking is God’s way of nudging you towards doing exactly that. If we don’t do it, who will?
 
I have found that families whose children attend the parish school are the most rooted in the life of the parish, others, particulary singles, have to work hard to feel like a part of the mainstream. It’s very unfortunate and very sad.
 
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Cupofkindness:
I have found that families whose children attend the parish school are the most rooted in the life of the parish, others, particulary singles, have to work hard to feel like a part of the mainstream. It’s very unfortunate and very sad.
In our parish, these folks tend to have one group, and the older, retired folks another. My husband and I don’t have kids, and aren’t of retirement age, so we kind of vacillate between the two. By teaching PSR I’m involved with the kids and parents, and by being in the PCCW and attending daily Mass when possible, I’m with the older folks. I wish we could get the two groups together more!
 
Dear Michelle,

I doubt that Lux_et_Veritas would mind if I repost her lovely sharing of the community her parish is experiencing (Sign of Peace thread in Liturgy & Sacraments, Post #39).
We don’t wait for an occassional coffee and donut Sunday to mingle, hug, kiss, shake hands and spend quality time together. We BBQ each Sunday, having hot dogs, hamburgers, sausages, cakes, donuts, etc. while the young kids play together, the teens play basketball and cards, and many of the opposite sex have a chance to mingle in an environment full of people with like values. The pastor says it is the one parish he is aware of where it is not uncommon to see people still there at 3 or 4:00 in the afternoon. Some groups of adults gather for different purposes - prayer, rosary, a short lecture in the parish hall by one of the Canons, pastor or other guest.
I was especially inspired, and Diane and I have been corresponding further to see what can be done to spread this to my own and hopefully other parishes. There seems to be a deep hunger for personal communion outside of Mass with other Catholics, and I believe it is becoming God-breathed into our hearts to see what we can do to promote it.

Long ago, when I was feeling particularly lonely, I voiced my feelings to God in prayer. This was my answer: “Do to others what you want them to do for you.” — commonly known as the Golden Rule. It seems that the Lord wanted to lift my focus outward, beginning in small ways to reach out to others who were also lonely. Do to them … what I want done to me…become a friend, get involved. It worked, believe it or not!

Pray on this, dear friend, and ask God to lead you, now that you are acquainted by personal experience with the suffering of loneliness and lack of compassion. That is so often His way of providing a powerful springboard to ministry! http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/ani_yup.gif

I sense very strongly that this is a movement of the Spirit for our times.

Carole
 
The Catholic Church, despite its claims of universality, has been unable to adapt to American culture, especially suburban culture.

The priests simply do not understand that in suburbia the only contact most parish members have with other parish members is in church.

As a result, the social life in the typical suburban parish is bad for married couples, and even worse for single people.

Without the cooperation of the parish priests, there is not much the parishioners can do to improve the situtation.
 
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