Lack Of Form Annulment Exceptions??

[seanb]

We are trying to get a lack of form certificate for my husband’s previous marriage, it was a fixed marriage outside the church. We are having a hard time to get a copy of their marriage certificate since they had it abroad. The family from the previous marriage does not want to cooperate. A copy of the marriage certificate is needed for this to be filed, but what if we could not get one? We have the divorce decree and a copy of my husbands baptismal certificate but not the copy of previous marriage certificate. We are also running out of time since we have scheduled our Church ceremony for Feb 09. Is there an exception or is there a way around it for the lack of form certificate to be processed?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Seatuck]

We are trying to get a lack of form certificate for my husband’s previous marriage, it was a fixed marriage outside the church. We are having a hard time to get a copy of their marriage certificate since they had it abroad. The family from the previous marriage does not want to cooperate. A copy of the marriage certificate is needed for this to be filed, but what if we could not get one? We have the divorce decree and a copy of my husbands baptismal certificate but not the copy of previous marriage certificate. We are also running out of time since we have scheduled our Church ceremony for Feb 09. Is there an exception or is there a way around it for the lack of form certificate to be processed?

Any help would be appreciated.

Seems like he needs to contact the authority who performed the ceremony.Seems simple enough. Where did he get married? Not sure what “fixed” means. If he has to get on a plane then that is what he needs to do. You should be asking questions such as this to the priest who is witnessing your marriage.

 

[FrDavid96]

We are trying to get a lack of form certificate for my husband’s previous marriage, it was a fixed marriage outside the church. We are having a hard time to get a copy of their marriage certificate since they had it abroad. The family from the previous marriage does not want to cooperate. A copy of the marriage certificate is needed for this to be filed, but what if we could not get one? We have the divorce decree and a copy of my husbands baptismal certificate but not the copy of previous marriage certificate. We are also running out of time since we have scheduled our Church ceremony for Feb 09. Is there an exception or is there a way around it for the lack of form certificate to be processed?

Any help would be appreciated.

I don’t know if this will work, but what about the divorce decree? Perhaps you can contact the court that issued that decree and see if they have the original marriage documentation on-file, or if they can give you the information from that file to use as a lead to contact the office that can get you a certified copy. Hope that helps.

 

[quiet52]

From what I understand, many pastors ask couples not to schedule the wedding ceremony until after the decree of nullity is granted.

 

[jeanannemarie]

It took two years to do my annulment and THEN they started my husband’s and it took two more years. All in all it was quite a lengthy process. But I don’t know what lack of form means, or a fixed marriage, so maybe your situation is different. The Church definitely moves at its own pace for the annulment process.

 

[Seatuck]

It took two years to do my annulment and THEN they started my husband’s and it took two more years. All in all it was quite a lengthy process. But I don’t know what lack of form means, or a fixed marriage, so maybe your situation is different. The Church definitely moves at its own pace for the annulment process.

Still don’t know what a “fixed” marriage but I can help you on “lack of form”. Lack of form is when a Catholic marries without following the canonical regulations of marriage without getting them dispensed. An example would be a catholic getting a civil marriage. It’s a fairly simple process to prove then that a proper sacrament did not take place. It is what they call a documentary case. You just need the marriage certificate, the divorce decree and a short investigation to prove that no convalidation took place after. Usually a current Baptismal certificate/Sacramental record provides that.

 

[Phemie]

“Fixed” = “arranged”?

 

[Seatuck]

“Fixed” = “arranged”?

Oh , really? Learn something new everyday. So , do Christians arrange marriages anymore these days?Guess so. If we are talking about the former spouse being a non baptized person there might be other options. Please speak to the priest or ask to speak to someone at the diocese regarding the options if this was a marriage with non baptized people. Not saying it will be quicker , in fact it might not be. But what else are you going to do?

 

[ljprevo]

It took two years to do my annulment and THEN they started my husband’s and it took two more years. All in all it was quite a lengthy process. But I don’t know what lack of form means, or a fixed marriage, so maybe your situation is different. The Church definitely moves at its own pace for the annulment process.

A lack of form does not take as long as a regular annulment.

" If a Catholic marries before a civil magistrate or in a church other than the Catholic Church without the bishop’s permission, there is a lack of form in that marriage. (The rule is that a Catholic marries a Catholic in a Catholic Church. Dispensation from the rule may be granted by the bishop under certain circumstances.)"

This is automatically an invalid marriage, all one has to basically do is prove the marriage was lack of form and the annulment is fairly quick.

To the OP,

You should honestly not be planning a wedding before the annulment is granted.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It took two years to do my annulment and THEN they started my husband’s and it took two more years. All in all it was quite a lengthy process. But I don’t know what lack of form means, or a fixed marriage, so maybe your situation is different. The Church definitely moves at its own pace for the annulment process.

“Lack of Form” or “Defect of Form” means that one person can prove that: 1. They were CATHOLIC at the time of the Marriage. 2. They did not marry according to Catholic canonical from (the place, the person who witnessed the exchange of vows, the wording of the vows, ect.) and no dispensations are on file in the diocese where the Marriage took place.

This is all done with documentation only usually. Which is why it takes much less time. I would guess that if some of the documentation is not available a fuller investigation would be needed. (much longer, complicated and expensive)

 

[puzzleannie]

to find documentation of a civil marriage (or divorce), contact the civil authority who granted the marriage license (or divorce). This cost is usually nominal at the time of marriage, but much more expensive later, which is why it pays to always keep such paperwork permanently. if it was in another country, that country’s embassy or consul should be able to help.

 

[SMHW]

We are trying to get a lack of form certificate for my husband’s previous marriage, it was a fixed marriage outside the church. We are having a hard time to get a copy of their marriage certificate since they had it abroad. The family from the previous marriage does not want to cooperate. A copy of the marriage certificate is needed for this to be filed, but what if we could not get one? We have the divorce decree and a copy of my husbands baptismal certificate but not the copy of previous marriage certificate. We are also running out of time since we have scheduled our Church ceremony for Feb 09. Is there an exception or is there a way around it for the lack of form certificate to be processed?

Any help would be appreciated.

Seanb, have you seen Puzzleannie’s post. Did this wedding take place in a country with whom your country has diplomatic relations?

 

[cameron_lansing]

The poster has been very well advised to consult an embassy or consultate to obtain the record.

In the absence of some official and authentic public document that establishes the manifest absence of a Catholic minister, lack of that *might *be established by credible witness testimony. That would kind of depend on the prudent judgement of the person who is authorized to declare the lack of form.

Sometimes bills of complaint for divorce do indicate the officiant. Most US marriage certificates do, and if not, the official abstract would. In the US, it is fairly easy for a person to obtain an authentic copy of his or her marriage information from the county or state. Ease varies in regard to other nations. In the US, there are some restraints on third parties accessing records of marriage but not on the couple.

As to a couple of side points . . .

The wording of the vows even with the appearance of canonical form (an authorized assistant and two witnesses) would be a different kind of situation and fall under the judicial documentary process for a defect of legitimate form in canon 1686. Unlike the declaration of lack of form, this would involve a true judicial process. (A small problem exists in terms since the Latin “defectus” can be rendered to mean either a total lack of form or a lack of something necessary even when canonical form appears to have been observed. But a defect in form involves a judicial process, and a total lack of form involves an administrative process.)

By itself, the physical place, location or site of a marriage is irrelevant to the form of marriage. It may render the celebration illicit but not invalidate it. Some additional factor would have to be present to do that.

As noted earlier, in simple lack of canonical form, inquiry is also made to see if dispensation were granted or the marriage were subsequently convalidated. There is at least cursory investigation into the possibility of exception when a Catholic had wed according to Eastern non Catholic sacred rite or had defected by a formal act. The latter is fairly straight forward in most cases. A notation would be found in the baptismal registry of the person.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

We are trying to get a lack of form certificate for my husband’s previous marriage, it was a fixed marriage outside the church. We are having a hard time to get a copy of their marriage certificate since they had it abroad. The family from the previous marriage does not want to cooperate. A copy of the marriage certificate is needed for this to be filed, but what if we could not get one? We have the divorce decree and a copy of my husbands baptismal certificate but not the copy of previous marriage certificate. We are also running out of time since we have scheduled our Church ceremony for Feb 09. Is there an exception or is there a way around it for the lack of form certificate to be processed?

Any help would be appreciated.

I was married in Las Vegas eight months ago and then remarried in the Catholic church. I only needed my divorce decree and so did he as we both were married outside the church years ago for the first marriage. That’s all the priest should need plus the Baptismal and Communion records.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was married in Las Vegas eight months ago and then remarried in the Catholic church. I only needed my divorce decree and so did he as we both were married outside the church years ago for the first marriage. That’s all the priest should need plus the Baptismal and Communion records.

in the US as stated above the divorce decree will almost always have all the relevant info about the original marriage, that is not true everywhere, even in the US, so it would be misleading for anyone reading this to think they won’t need their original marriage certificate. Also a recent (within 6 months) baptismal certificate of all Catholic parties is required because all sacraments will be listed, including marriage convalidations, dispensations from canonical form etc. It is surprising what people “forget.”

 

[cameron_lansing]

I was married in Las Vegas eight months ago and then remarried in the Catholic church. I only needed my divorce decree and so did he as we both were married outside the church years ago for the first marriage. That’s all the priest should need plus the Baptismal and Communion records.

Particular law varies and this solution does not seem to apply to the original poster from what has been presented.

While it is clear that the prenuptial investigation suffices in law to accomplish this (see Pontifical Commission on the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 June 1984 in AAS, LXXVI, 1984, 746-747), some dioceses require that an authority other than the priest or deacon declare the existence of the lack of form. Having a tribunal or another curial office do the investigation is done as a precaution. To my knowledge, this is more of the prevailing practice.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

in the US as stated above the divorce decree will almost always have all the relevant info about the original marriage, that is not true everywhere, even in the US, so it would be misleading for anyone reading this to think they won’t need their original marriage certificate. Also a recent (within 6 months) baptismal certificate of all Catholic parties is required because all sacraments will be listed, including marriage convalidations, dispensations from canonical form etc. It is surprising what people “forget.”

Obviously this shouldn’t be misleading when I was married myself in the church. It wasn’t a big wedding or anything, very private. Some priests are more lenient than others, and certain circumstances, they should be.

 

[SMHW]

Obviously this shouldn’t be misleading when I was married myself in the church. It wasn’t a big wedding or anything, very private. Some priests are more lenient than others, and certain circumstances, they should be.

I believe the point is that your particular experience could mislead people to into thinking that they would or should have the same experience. They may not.

You may live in a diocese where the bishop has granted his priests the right to determine when there has been a lack of form for a previous marriage. That’s not usual, at least in the United States. It is more common that a bishop requires the marriage tribunal at least reviews the documents.

The case discussed in this thread involves a marriage that took place in another country so we don’t know if the divorce documentation makes any reference to the original marriage documents.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I believe the point is that your particular experience could mislead people to into thinking that they would or should have the same experience. They may not.

You may live in a diocese where the bishop has granted his priests the right to determine when there has been a lack of form for a previous marriage. That’s not usual, at least in the United States. It is more common that a bishop requires the marriage tribunal at least reviews the documents.

The case discussed in this thread involves a marriage that took place in another country so we don’t know if the divorce documentation makes any reference to the original marriage documents.

Ok, I didn’t realize it was in another country, but I feel the divorce decree would be the most important, proving you were already married and divorced on one piece of paper.

 

[LionTamer]

Still don’t know what a “fixed” marriage but I can help you on “lack of form”. Lack of form is when a Catholic marries without following the canonical regulations of marriage without getting them dispensed. An example would be a catholic getting a civil marriage. **It’s a fairly simple process to prove then that a proper sacrament did not take place. It is what they call a documentary case. **You just need the marriage certificate, the divorce decree and a short investigation to prove that no convalidation took place after. Usually a current Baptismal certificate/Sacramental record provides that.

A lack of form does not take as long as a regular annulment.

" If a Catholic marries before a civil magistrate or in a church other than the Catholic Church without the bishop’s permission, there is a lack of form in that marriage. (The rule is that a Catholic marries a Catholic in a Catholic Church. Dispensation from the rule may be granted by the bishop under certain circumstances.)"

This is automatically an invalid marriage, all one has to basically do is prove the marriage was lack of form and the annulment is fairly quick.

To the OP,

You should honestly not be planning a wedding before the annulment is granted.

I understand that each case is unique and that no time frame can be assured and so on, but for anyone who has gotten a lack of form declaration of nullity or knows someone who has, how long did that process take to complete?