Lack of knowledge???

[Matthew7vrs7]

If you are questioning whether I belong to a specific church or not - Yes. We are (for legal purposes only i.e charitible responsibility, membership qualifications, financial obligations, etc.) listed as a Baptist House Church though as referenced, this is only the closest description to what we believe that the government has given us to choose from in order to have legal authority as a non-profit faith based enity. Meaning, we don’t call ourselves Baptists, the local and federal goverments call us this based on the only criteria they have defined themselves. We are part of the Body of Christ, and nothing more or less. We follow that teachings of Jesus the Christ, by testing the world around us based on what He says.

My being against division of the Body comes straight from Paul:

I Corinthians 12:25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other…

We also believe that Peter, being one of the Rocks of the foundation.helped to build the Church or Body on the very Cornerstone of Christ

Ephesians 2:20 You are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself the chief Cornerstone.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Matthew7vrs7:

In what way would you as Catholics like for me to “verify for myself”?
You believe I lack knowledge, have no basis for my understanding, and cannot backup what I believe to be true. It is my understanding that my pastor may give me “the Word” but that Lord Jesus expects me to then test what he has told me against the words from Jesus mouth.

Do you believe what you are told by your teachers blindly, or do you then, seek to understand the truth whether it proves or disproves what they have told you.

I am concerned about this “anti-Protestant” point of view. Am I not to believe what the bible says, and /or especially what Jesus - also know as the Word incarnate - has said.

I do not claim any denomination. I am a Christian who has gained salvation through Christ Jesus who came into the world as Emmanuel - God with us - to be the Light unto the world, who laid to rest the old covenant and brought the gift of the Spirit into he world so that man might find his salvation through the holy Redeemer. He gave His life on the cross and allowed His blood to be shed in order to be a ransom for my sins, so that If I believe in Him with my heart and profess with my mouth His glory and grace and worthiness of the title Messiah because of His works on earth and that He Himself said so, that I may be saved because He said so - not because my pastor tells me this. Is this wrong?

Where is my error in thinking? I can back this up with scripture if you feel I must, but I would first like to know your opinion of me.

Do you believe I am saved. If not, by what authority do you judge me, by the authority of the Pope, or the Authority of Yeshua Messiah, Jesus that Redeemer, Savior, the Way the truth and the Life, the earthly incarnate of the triune the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

I’m going to address only the section that I’ve bolded and specifically the words underlined. You seem to believe that you have gained salvation. Are you in Heaven? If not, you have yet to be saved but only hope to be saved. The Catholic Teaching would be to substitute “hope to be saved” in lieu of your choice of words. But these are not just a substitution of words of minor import but significantly changes the what you have said such that it is contrary to Christ’s Teaching. I could site hundreds of quotes from Scripture that show we aren’t saved until Christ says so.

A couple of Scriptural paraphrases to keep in mind (I don’t have the time to find the exact quotes):

“The wages of sin are death.” Be eternally diligent for you don’t know the hour that I might come." “Many desire eternal savlation but the chosen are few.” “He says he knows me, but I (Christ) don’t know him.”

For a better and more lengthy articulation, I refer you to the following:

catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

As to if I know if you would be saved if you were to die right now, I have no idea, your pastor has no idea, the Pope has no idea and you have no idea. For anyone, including yourself, to know if you are saved, you’d have to have the infinite knowledge, wisdom, presence and transcendence of God. If you had that, you’d be God. If you were God, you wouldn’t have to post on CAF.

Furthermore, I am unworthy to judge you, your pastor is unworthy to judge you, the Pope is unworthy to judge you and you are unworthy to judge yourself. This is the exclusive perogative of He who is “I AM”. For anyone to try to make any such claim with regard to your salvation is a presumption of something that is God’s and a very, very, very grave matter.

A Christian is called to live in confidence that God is just and merciful as He told us that He is. He can’t lie. However, we can’t judge the extent of His justice and mercy as we don’t have perfect Knowledge. We tremble in fear that we be judged worthy but have hope in His mercy.

 

[Church_Militant]

M7v7,
I can’t figure out how you think that we Catholics just sit around and take teaching from on high or something. I’ve heard that sort of stuff from a great many non-Catholics and have yet to see where they get that from unless they have been talking to the lax pew warmers who are no better than the same kinds that any n-C church has among their members.

On my own experience, I find that the most knowlegeable Catholics are the ones who are the most questioning and the ones who seek to know why we believe what we believe. I know that is the case with me personally and that is a huge part of why I am Catholic now and forever. (Read my story here )

In fact, most of the time I have found that those folks (like yourself here) who say you have the biggest problems with the Catholic faith are often the people who have been told stuff by pastors, friends, websites, and books and other sources that are not Catholic in origin and in fact have faulty information in them…yet people believe it. (I did for over 30 years while I was out of the church) so I’m actually glad that you had the guts to come over here and talk to us and I encourage you to take the time to listen carefully to what we say and get the facts and decide for yourself. I hope that you will follow the New Testament commmandment about all this when it says in 2nd Timothy 2:15 “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”

Welcome to CAF and please feel free to disagree with anything you like…but please also be sure that what you disagree with really is something that the Catholic Church teaches.
Pax tecum, (Matthew 10:2)

 

[Matthew7vrs7]

I will not quote your entire message Orionthehunter, but let me assure you that I am saved through Jesus Christ, because He has said so. Simply put…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth,** whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
25 .I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the (spiritually) dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live **

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that** everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."**

Do I believe God or man? I MUST believe Him.

And of course the apostles also declared it

2 Samuel 23:5 "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every.

And I could go on and on but then it is written…

Proverbs 29: If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs there is no peace.
AND…
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

It is not I who said this is so, but Christ Himself who saved me from myself (since the old me passed away with my baptism and the new me was born of the Spirit in regeneration) declared it to me through His Word.

 

[mercygate]

Matthew7vrs7:

I will not quote your entire message Orionthehunter, but let me assure you that I am saved through Jesus Christ, because He has said so. Simply put…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth,** whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.**
**25 .I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the (spiritually) dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live **

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that** everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."**

Do I believe God or man? I MUST believe Him.

And of course the apostles also declared it

2 Samuel 23:5 "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every.

And I could go on and on but then it is written…

Proverbs 29: If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs there is no peace.
AND…
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

It is not I who said this is so, but Christ Himself who saved me from myself (since the old me passed away with my baptism and the new me was born of the Spirit in regeneration) declared it to me through His Word.

Matthew – can you please clarify what you mean by “Do I believe God or man?” It’s the “or” part that mystifies me. Who is the “man” that you are placing in opposition to God?

 

[jim1130]

Matthew7vrs7:

I will not quote your entire message Orionthehunter, but let me assure you that I am saved through Jesus Christ, because He has said so. Simply put…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth,** whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
25 .I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the (spiritually) dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live **

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that** everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."**

Do I believe God or man? I MUST believe Him.

And of course the apostles also declared it

2 Samuel 23:5 "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every.

And I could go on and on but then it is written…

Proverbs 29: If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs there is no peace.
AND…
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

It is not I who said this is so, but Christ Himself who saved me from myself (since the old me passed away with my baptism and the new me was born of the Spirit in regeneration) declared it to me through His Word.

Does this mean you do whatever you want in life, whether good or bad, without fear of consequences and ramifications?

 

[Orionthehunter]

Matthew7vrs7:

I will not quote your entire message Orionthehunter, but let me assure you that I am saved through Jesus Christ, because He has said so. Simply put…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth,** whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
25 .I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the (spiritually) dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live **

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that** everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."**

Do I believe God or man? I MUST believe Him.

And of course the apostles also declared it

2 Samuel 23:5 "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every.

And I could go on and on but then it is written…

Proverbs 29: If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs there is no peace.
AND…
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

It is not I who said this is so, but Christ Himself who saved me from myself (since the old me passed away with my baptism and the new me was born of the Spirit in regeneration) declared it to me through His Word.

The operative word in your quotes is “believe”. One must have a full understanding of the word believe in its context. In “Introduction to Christianity” by Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict), he took 90 pages to explain what it means to “believe” in the theological context of these words. You do a disservice to the majesty and glory of the Living Word to cheapen it by a common semantic use of the English vernacular.

Cardinal Ratzinger looked deep into the theological meaning of “believe” and it means more than the common usage of “believe=think it to be true”. To believe in the context of the passages you site, it means that in addition to thinking it to be true you must also “understand and stand.” In other words, you must understand what you think to be true and you must “stand” for what you think to be true.

Suddenly, in this context, your “belief” is incomplete as your understanding is incomplete (unless you are God and have perfect knowledge) and your sin makes your “standing” imperfect. Now that you don’t fully “believe” as the scripture says is necessary for the guarantee of salvation, you now know that you don’t know if you are saved until Christ meets you at the pearly gates and says so. Additionally, in the meantime, you have to tremble in fear that your “belief” is inadequate and you have no guarantee because of your imperfection and human limitations. Now, you must trust in the mercy of Christ that He will judge your soul worthy of eternal salvation.

 

[Matthew7vrs7]

Church Militant:

In fact, most of the time I have found that those folks (like yourself here) who say you have the biggest problems with the Catholic faith are often the people who have been told stuff by pastors, friends, websites, and books and other sources that are not Catholic in origin and in fact have faulty information in them…

I do not “have a problem” with the Catholic faith and I do not challenge your faith, I only want to know why you condemn mine after all the name of this thread is “Lack of knowledge”. Are we not both Christians? Haven’t we asked Jesus into our hearts to save us from our sins? I would however challenge you to disprove what I have said if you truly believe I have no understanding,

JM1130:
It does mean that since the Spirit has been gifted to me that if I honestly believe (not just say it for the vanity)in Christ I ABSOLUTELY WILL bear fruits of the Spirit. Being human means I cannot live without sinning, but the Spirit has changed since Christ now dwells in me. So no I am not “free to sin” but when, say, pride rears it’s ugly head, I rebuke myself and ask for forgiveness with the undeniable belief that I will fight myself not to do so again - this is the life change that comes with baptism of the Spirit!

Mercygate: Do you not believe in scripture as truth?

Let me answer you all by asking to answer my simple question which was this: Was Jesus a lair. Can we NOT trust Scripture? If not why do we maintain it, use it, study it, test the world by it.

I’m sorry If I’ve missed responding to some but I am one and you are many.

 

[mercygate]

Matthew7vrs7:

Mercygate: Do you not believe in scripture as truth?

Let me answer you all by asking to answer my simple question which was this: Was Jesus a lair. Can we NOT trust Scripture? If not why do we maintain it, use it, study it, test the world by it.

Yes. I believe that Scripture is the inspired and inerrant word of God. And I know WHY I believe that. May I presume that you also believe Scripture to be the inspired and inerrant word of God? Why do you believe it? How do you know that Scripture is the word of God?

And I know you’re kind of busy on this thread, but it would be really useful for us to understand what you meant by "Do I believe God or man.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Mercy, your message folder is full and I can’t send you a PM. Would love to be able to do so as I have a question I’d like to ask you.

P.S. I apologize to everyone else that I had to use this means to talk to Mercy.

 

[Mickey]

Matthew7vrs7:

I do not “have a problem” with the Catholic faith and I do not challenge your faith, I only want to know why you condemn mine after all the name of this thread is “Lack of knowledge”. Are we not both Christians? Haven’t we asked Jesus into our hearts to save us from our sins?

The original poster was upset with some protestants who criticise the Catholic faith while not understanding their own theological roots. So I don’t think this is geared toward you and I don’t think you should feel that your faith is being condemned.

God bless you,
Mickey

 

[mercygate]

Orionthehunter:

Mercy, your message folder is full and I can’t send you a PM. Would love to be able to do so as I have a question I’d like to ask you.

P.S. I apologize to everyone else that I had to use this means to talk to Mercy.

Thanks for the heads up. Should be good to go now, Orion. Apologies to all.

 

[Matthew7vrs7]

Orionthehunter:

The operative word in your quotes is “believe”. One must have a full understanding of the word believe in its context. In “Introduction to Christianity” by Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict), he took 90 pages to explain what it means to “believe” in the theological context of these words. You do a disservice to the majesty and glory of the Living Word to cheapen it by a common semantic use of the English vernacular.

Cardinal Ratzinger looked deep into the theological meaning of “believe” and it means more than the common usage of “believe=think it to be true”. To believe in the context of the passages you site, it means that in addition to thinking it to be true you must also “understand and stand.” In other words, you must understand what you think to be true and you must “stand” for what you think to be true.

And Mickey, I would say our faith origins are the same, it is the paths that have split to some degree.

OK posting unchecked for errors…I’m way behind you all.

Suddenly, in this context, your “belief” is incomplete as your understanding is incomplete (unless you are God and have perfect knowledge) and your sin makes your “standing” imperfect. Now that you don’t fully “believe” as the scripture says is necessary for the guarantee of salvation, you now know that you don’t know if you are saved until Christ meets you at the pearly gates and says so. Additionally, in the meantime, you have to tremble in fear that your “belief” is inadequate and you have no guarantee because of your imperfection and human limitations. Now, you must trust in the mercy of Christ that He will judge your soul worthy of eternal salvation.

Who do you judge me by, the Pope? He is but a man - does he have authority over me? Is not the greatest on earth the least in Heaven? Am I not STANDING for what I think to be true? Can only God believe in God? If so then only God may be saved. Does God only speak in Greek and Latin? Who’s understanding is right, the Popes over mine. Can God not talk to me through His Word.

Christ said all that believe in him would have everlasting life. Understand me now, that I edify and exhault the lord UNTO DEATH. How firm is that stance? I understand that no man is worthy of his own accord, nor of his works, lest he BOAST of his works in pride. I know that Jesus died for me personally, as well as for you personally. If I am not changed through baptism, how then can my works be good? why do we baptize?

Answer with your own understanding, not links and heresay, please. And yet again I come in peace and am “attacked” for honest questions.

As for Why I Believe - 1 because the Lord said that the Bible was His Word, and I believe in Him, and 2 and just as importantly; I have wittnessed God at work in my life - haven’t you noticed His work in yours? 3 I continue to see His Miracles as affirmation and confirmation - don’t you?

As for man or God I mean though I do believe in what the apostle and prophets have said, I trust the Spirit who lives in me to discern good and evil - or what is from God. Do you not use discernment?

Please do not answer me with links and heresay- answer me with your own authority.

 

[Matthew7vrs7]

I have to leave to pick up my son from school, but I look forward to your postings when I return, and I’m sure you will not disappoint me in that. Farewell for short while. Bless you all, and I look forward to debating you further when I return.

 

[Mickey]

Matthew7vrs7:

Who’s understanding is right, the Popes over mine.

I think now we are inching toward the subject of proper interpretation of Sacred Scripture and how Sacred Tradition relates to this. But that is perhaps for another thread?

 

[Mickey]

Matthew7vrs7:

And Mickey, I would say our faith origins are the same, it is the paths that have split to some degree.

Perhaps we should investigate this split. Why was there a common theological understanding of doctrine for 1500 years and then a splintering of understandings?

 

[Orionthehunter]

Matthew7vrs7:

Who do you judge me by, the Pope? He is but a man - does he have authority over me? Is not the greatest on earth the least in Heaven? Am I not STANDING for what I think to be true? Can only God believe in God? If so then only God may be saved. Does God only speak in Greek and Latin? Who’s understanding is right, the Popes over mine. Can God not talk to me through His Word.

Christ said all that believe in him would have everlasting life. Understand me now, that I edify and exhault the lord UNTO DEATH. How firm is that stance? I understand that no man is worthy of his own accord, nor of his works, lest he BOAST of his works in pride. I know that Jesus died for me personally, as well as for you personally. If I am not changed through baptism, how then can my works be good? why do we baptize?

Answer with your own understanding, not links and heresay, please. And yet again I come in peace and am “attacked” for honest questions.

As for Why I Believe - 1 because the Lord said that the Bible was His Word, and I believe in Him, and 2 and just as importantly; I have wittnessed God at work in my life - haven’t you noticed His work in yours? 3 I continue to see His Miracles as affirmation and confirmation - don’t you?

As for man or God I mean though I do believe in what the apostle and prophets have said, I trust the Spirit who lives in me to discern good and evil - or what is from God. Do you not use discernment?

Please do not answer me with links and heresay- answer me with your own authority.

I don’t judge you. Christ will judge you.

Regarding the book to which I refer, Cardinal Ratzinger is a respected theologian and this respect goes beyond just the Catholic community. In this book, he thanks many who assisted him in its writing including many Protestant theologians. My point is that in the context of the quotes you site, the word believe means much more than “think it to be true.”

You and I have limited abilities to fully interpret the Bible. It is a majestic and complex as it is from an incomprehensible God. Jesus instituted the Apostolic Magisterium so that we would know who the Teachers were. Paul continually referred to himself in teh teaching role to correct the faithful who were misinterpreting Scripture. To minimize the word “believe” to mean “think to be true” takes the quotes you site out of context and makes your interpretation prone to error.

I don’t doubt that you stand for Christ. But your stand is made imperfect by your sin. So is mine.

Links and hearsay? I’m trying to give you the basis for why I think it important that we don’t just rely on what we self-interpret. It is in humility that I look to others given greater Wisdom (as in the Magisterium). I don’t have so much hubris to think that my personal interpretation is necessarily from God.

I apologize if you feel attacked. I do not attack you personally. However, I am only articulating why we must be wary of our own personal interpretation. Jesus told us to be wary of False Prophets (either with ill-intent or ill-information) but to trust in Him and His Church. As I am a sinner, I especially feel taht it is foolish to rely on myself as a Prophet.

P.S. I’ll leave it to mercygate to answer her questions.

 

[jim1130]

Matthew7vrs7:

I will not quote your entire message Orionthehunter, but let me assure you that I am saved through Jesus Christ, because He has said so. Simply put…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth,** whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
25 .I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the (spiritually) dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live **

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that** everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."**

Do I believe God or man? I MUST believe Him.

And of course the apostles also declared it

2 Samuel 23:5 "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every.

And I could go on and on but then it is written…

Proverbs 29: If a wise man contends with a foolish man, whether the fool rages or laughs there is no peace.
AND…
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

It is not I who said this is so, but Christ Himself who saved me from myself (since the old me passed away with my baptism and the new me was born of the Spirit in regeneration) declared it to me through His Word.

I do not really want to get overly involved in the discussion, but, very simply stated, you are advocating that you are your own interpreter of the Bible. I can appreciate your strong stand, but many others claim similar positions (that they are their own interpreters of the Bible). Others more well-informed than I may confront oyu head on, but what I have read from you is someone not particularly open-minded; itis your way or the highway based on your interpretation of the Bible. Having said that, would you believe that John Lennon, based on his “The Beatles are bigger than Jesus Christ” an anti-Christian statement?

 

[Matthew7vrs7]

Thank you for your insight, Orionthehunter, and I’m glad I didn’t miss much in my absence. I must admit that it is more my assumption rather that any course study or learned knowledge, that the Catholic faith’s origin comes from Cephas, Petra, or Peter, the Rock, and Jesus’ explaining “on this rock I will build My church.” If this is correct I would have to then ask why Peter is the only apostle Jesus wanted to spread the gospel. What made him more able, more trustworthy? Was he the only one Jesus wanted to promote His Church. Did no one else have the divine authority to do so. Why or why not.

On another train of thought…

Did God choose the Pope or did men vote on it? Does not Vicar come from the latin meaning “in place of” or th same as vicarious? Do you pray to or in the name of the Pope? Is it because I am merely a mortal man that I cannot interpret the scriptures - if so…who can? Jesus hasn’t returned yet. If I do not know or understand the law (because it was devine and by your reasoning I do not have the ability to understand what God meant), how then can I be judged by it? And, yet again, what good is bapsism if you aren’t saved through it. Isn’t it a regeneration of the Christian IN CHRIST so that we be made hiers to the Kingdom.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.

Are you saying I cannot understand that I must Walk to Walk, I don’t know that I must be firm and resloute in my belief in the Salvation that is Christ Jesus. and that I don’t understand that I must have faith that what He said was the Truth, the Word of God and be humble as a child?

Where is my lack of wisdom? Why does someone else understand what I don’t if we are all imperfect humans. Where exactly is the logic in this reasoning?

Jim1130
Who’s way or the highway? Who is not trying to understand whom? Is not the Light the Light. Can the Truth not be felt in your heart. Are we so pathetic that we don’t feel the Word of God etched on our very souls. And it is not my way or the highway,
it’s His was or Damnation. I do tell you you are wrong, but you do not cease to tell me I am wrong, that I cannot know of my own salvation even though Christ says, “you will know all men by their fruits”. Do you show fruit in your life? Are you furthering the Kindgom on earth or are you hindering it by your assumption that your traditions and cerimonies make you more worthy of understanding. Truth is Truth, but some men hate the Light because in the darkness they hide their sins.

 

[jim1130]

Matthew7vrs7:

Thank you for your insight, Orionthehunter, and I’m glad I didn’t miss much in my absence. I must admit that it is more my assumption rather that any course study or learned knowledge, that the Catholic faith’s origin comes from Cephas, Petra, or Peter, the Rock, and Jesus’ explaining “on this rock I will build My church.” If this is correct I would have to then ask why Peter is the only apostle Jesus wanted to spread the gospel. What made him more able, more trustworthy? Was he the only one Jesus wanted to promote His Church. Did no one else have the divine authority to do so. Why or why not.

On another train of thought…

Did God choose the Pope or did men vote on it? Does not Vicar come from the latin meaning “in place of” or th same as vicarious? Do you pray to or in the name of the Pope? Is it because I am merely a mortal man that I cannot interpret the scriptures - if so…who can? Jesus hasn’t returned yet. If I do not know or understand the law (because it was devine and by your reasoning I do not have the ability to understand what God meant), how then can I be judged by it? And, yet again, what good is bapsism if you aren’t saved through it. Isn’t it a regeneration of the Christian IN CHRIST so that we be made hiers to the Kingdom.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.

Are you saying I cannot understand that I must Walk to Walk, I don’t know that I must be firm and resloute in my belief in the Salvation that is Christ Jesus. and that I don’t understand that I must have faith that what He said was the Truth, the Word of God and be humble as a child?

Where is my lack of wisdom? Why does someone else understand what I don’t if we are all imperfect humans. Where exactly is the logic in this reasoning?

Jim1130
Who’s way or the highway? Who is not trying to understand whom? Is not the Light the Light. Can the Truth not be felt in your heart. Are we so pathetic that we don’t feel the Word of God etched on our very souls. And it is not my way or the highway,
it’s His was or Damnation. I do tell you you are wrong, but you do not cease to tell me I am wrong, that I cannot know of my own salvation even though Christ says, “you will know all men by their fruits”. Do you show fruit in your life? Are you furthering the Kindgom on earth or are you hindering it by your assumption that your traditions and cerimonies make you more worthy of understanding. Truth is Truth, but some men hate the Light because in the darkness they hide their sins.

Who is being judgemental now?