"Lack of Priests"

[gelsbern]

Fast_ed75:

I don’t think cost is an issue for the lack of vocations. Many religious orders pay for the seminary (jesuits, holy cross ec) and its my understanding that diocesan priests generally take loans for their seminary education and the diocese usually picks it up after they are ordained.

I can’t speak for the FSSP. It would not surprise me that priests must raise money on their own for the seminary given that the Order is rather new and probably does not have a significant income/benefactor/contribution base for seminary formation…But it is just not the norm.

Once you reach seminary yes. Before that, no. You have to pay for your own 4 year education before you are accepted into seminary and for me, cost was a huge issue that kept me from being able to get the required 4 year degree.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Girl Altar Boys.

Now being at the altar is nothing special. It has ceased to be a venue to pursue vocations, and has become a gender equality issue.

My father attests that when he felt most drawn towards the priesthood was as an altar boy. I am sure that most vocations lost to-day are due to the fact that they are not fostered in altar boy programmes to be “fair” to the girls.

 

[Toni]

Servus Pio XII:

Girl Altar Boys.

Now being at the altar is nothing special. It has ceased to be a venue to pursue vocations, and has become a gender equality issue.

My father attests that when he felt most drawn towards the priesthood was as an altar boy. I am sure that most vocations lost to-day are due to the fact that they are not fostered in altar boy programmes to be “fair” to the girls.

I agree with you on this. My boys stopped serving when the girls came in. I also agree with the fact that all these cases of molestation have not helped.
But I do believe that the seminaries are a problem especially the diocesan seminaries.
I do know good orders that don’t have any problems getting vocations though. But #1 they do not have altar girls #2 you are in the seminary for 10 years or more.

 

[Fast_ed75]

gelsbern:

Once you reach seminary yes. Before that, no. You have to pay for your own 4 year education before you are accepted into seminary and for me, cost was a huge issue that kept me from being able to get the required 4 year degree.

Well, you are correct in that regard. I guess it gets overlooked since today a bachelor’s degree is required or recommended to get into any kind of non-labororous skilled work. Surprising how employees like flight attendants have degrees.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

The price of entering FSSP is so steep! I hope it comes down a bit in four years…I desperately want to be amongst them.

 

[Kielbasi]

joshjacob:

I would like to hear what everyone’s opions is regarding the lack of priests. Here are a few of my own opions:

• Lack of religion in the family.
• No encouragement from family and friends.
• Priesthood is too demanding.

I think one of the real reasons that you didn’t mention is the decline of the neighborhood parish and school.

Nowadays, devout parents will drive their kids to a suburban parish campus, maybe sign them up for CCD classes 1 day a week, and to mass on Saturday or Sunday. The rest of the week , they don’t see a priest, they don’t see the church building at all, they don’t have anyway to get there even if they wanted to.

If the parents are less than devout, the kids will see even less of the church.

Back in the day, the kids were in the neighborhood of the church 24/7, many were actually there in school 6 or 7 hours per day plus extracurricular activities. Many more churches had bowling alleys and gyms , CYO activities. If the parents weren’t devout in their faith, older kids at least could be responsible to attend mass and church activities on their own.

Back then, kids got a real close look at what priests do, and what was involved. Nowadays few kids are fed enough information to really consider the priesthood.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

introibo:

Correct me if I’m wrong… but won’t the diocese pick up the tab for seminary education?

Depends on the diocese and religious orders.

Some religious orders require a bachelors degree and no debt, including student loans. Others do not. Like the one I joined.

As for dioceses, each has its own policies. The one I was looking at would pay for your seminary, you had to cover the costs of your bachelors. Any student loans for the bachelors you had to pay back and after your ordination you owed the diocese for half of your seminary education.

Also, most, if not all, seminaries do not allow you to work while attending them.

 

[palmas85]

As a young boy back home, my neighborhood was pretty much all Catholic. We had within a twelve square block area 4 Catholic elementary schools, 4 Churches, two catholic High Schools, one all grade Catholic girls boarding school, one orphanage, four convents for the teaching sisters and one convent of strictly cloistered Poor Claire nuns. The big holidays in those days were St Patricks Day and St. Josephs day, which was a really big one. Priests were universally respected and looked up to as a vital link between Christ and us, the laity. They led procession in honor of the Blessed Virgin and the saints. They stood up for the faith and forced us to do the same. They kept a very tight lid on the neighborhood, and that was not an easy task. Weekly Benedictions and adortaions were held. Novenas were encouraged etc.

Then the breath of spring came through. Processions stopped, adortaion stopped benedictions stopped, public rosaries stopped people stopped going to Mass, social consciences were raised due to Vietnam etc. The Priests lost control of the parishes to committees. The sisters left the convents, stopped teaching and started doing all manner of other things.

I recently went back home. There is now one elementary school,. no high schools, no orphanage, no convents, no boarding school and 2 churches. One offers Mass only on Sundays and the churches share the same two priests. Both priests are in their 70’s and ready to retire. It is anticipated that one of the churches will close this year. Virtually no one goes to mass there anymore.The school is totally secularized and doesn’t even offer religion anymore as only about ten percent of the students are practicing Catholics.

Why the drop in vocations, I don’t really know, but it is all tied to the bigger picture I just gave. Multiply my scenario by a thousand all across the country, and I think you have the answer.

 

[puzzleannie]

joshjacob:

I would like to hear what everyone’s opions is regarding the lack of priests. Here are a few of my own opions:

• Lack of religion in the family.

I

lack of children in the family. In the past Catholic families routinely had 6 or more children, and one son was intended for the priesthood, and one daughter for religious life. Families with only 2 or 3 children put a lot of pressure on them to marry and provide grandchildren, so there is nobody left to dedicate to the Church. Two generations of priests and religious have been contracepted out of existence.

 

[Kielbasi]

palmas85:

I recently went back home. There is now one elementary school,. no high schools, no orphanage, no convents, no boarding school and 2 churches. One offers Mass only on Sundays and the churches share the same two priests. Both priests are in their 70’s and ready to retire. It is anticipated that one of the churches will close this year. Virtually no one goes to mass there anymore.The school is totally secularized and doesn’t even offer religion anymore as only about ten percent of the students are practicing Catholics.

Why the drop in vocations, I don’t really know, but it is all tied to the bigger picture I just gave. Multiply my scenario by a thousand all across the country, and I think you have the answer.

You have something there , but the kind of changes you’ve described have more to do with changes in the neighborhood than in changes in the church.

Many of those who lived in the neighborhood when you were a kid probably moved out to suburbia or out of the region since then.

Here in Pittsburgh, neighborhoods have changed, and churches have closed because of this. Examples abound, but parishes such as St. Joseph (German) and Regina Coeli (Italian) in Manchester closed their doors and sold their physical plants to protestant congregations as the Germans and Italian populations were replaced by mostly protestant African Americans.

 

[Ace86]

lcdiocese.org/bishop/writings/view.asp?ArticleID=40

These are some of the reasons that are mentioned frequently:

• The ultimate questions addressed by religion in general and by Catholicism in particular do not seem relevant to many young people.
• The reforms of the Second Vatican Council have obscured the role of the priest.
• The secular, materialistic, egocentric American culture makes it difficult for someone to embrace a life of selfless-service to others receiving neither wealth nor fame in return.
• The lack of enthusiasm about the Church and the priesthood on the part of families who rarely encourage their sons to consider the priesthood.
• The perception that celibacy and permanent commitment are incompatible with a culture saturated with sexuality and the desire for personal gratification.
• The fact that Catholics are not really praying for vocations, especially before the Eucharist in adoration chapels.
• The selfishness of those who are called by Christ and are failing to respond to their vocations.
• The terrible scandal caused by members of the clergy abusing children.
• The low morale of some priests that makes it impossible for them to be dynamic ambassadors for the priesthood.
• The concern that there may be an active homosexual presence in some seminaries.
• The loss of reverence in the liturgy, the lack of devotion to Mary, and indifference to the clear teachings of the Holy Father.

I think the last point is the most important.

 

[palmas85]

Kielbasi:

You have something there , but the kind of changes you’ve described have more to do with changes in the neighborhood than in changes in the church.

Many of those who lived in the neighborhood when you were a kid probably moved out to suburbia or out of the region since then.

Here in Pittsburgh, neighborhoods have changed, and churches have closed because of this. Examples abound, but parishes such as St. Joseph (German) and Regina Coeli (Italian) in Manchester closed their doors and sold their physical plants to protestant congregations as the Germans and Italian populations were replaced by mostly protestant African Americans.

Actually the sad thing is most of the neighborhood is the same. Mostly Irish, Italian and African American, the same as it always was. It’s different though in many ways, and I truly think a lot of them can be traced straight back to the lack of the religious base that the neighborhood always had.

 

[gelsbern]

I personally feel that the change in the neighborhoods were a result in the change of the church and not vice versa. If one looks, it was almost as if there was a switch thrown, somewhere around 1969/1970. It could be one of many things that happened during that time.

 

[ChemicalBean]

Here’s a few possible reasons nobody has mentioned here yet.

1.) God is just not calling as many men to be priests as previously. Plain and simple. It’s as though we can’t admit that this could be a possibility. It’s uncomfortable. So we look for something else to pin the blame on (feminism, orthodoxy, gays, etc.) because we have a mindset that we are ENTITLED to a plethora of priests.

2.) The screening process for priesthood candidates is too rigid and narrow. Forget the “radicalist agenda conspiracy” theory - I’m just talking about our desire to find the perfect candidates, we throw out a lot of the good ones, because we have a lot more screening tools with which to discriminate. We do it with good reason, too: today’s society has a “I’ll sue you” mentality. We demand more of our priests, too. But many religious will admit that “Well, by today’s standards, I probably would not have made the cut.”

3.) What young man (or anyone, for that matter) wants a 24-7 job in the spotlight serving a populace divided against itself? If I were considering the priesthood and lurking around these message boards, I would conclude that my most dedicated parishioners-to-be were hostile to each other in sharing their vision of faith, and that I would be “pew-policed” no matter what I did.

 

[Catholic29]

lcdiocese.org/bishop/writings/view.asp?ArticleID=40

These are some of the reasons that are mentioned frequently:

• The ultimate questions addressed by religion in general and by Catholicism in particular do not seem relevant to many young people.
• The reforms of the Second Vatican Council have obscured the role of the priest.
• The secular, materialistic, egocentric American culture makes it difficult for someone to embrace a life of selfless-service to others receiving neither wealth nor fame in return.
• The lack of enthusiasm about the Church and the priesthood on the part of families who rarely encourage their sons to consider the priesthood.
• The perception that celibacy and permanent commitment are incompatible with a culture saturated with sexuality and the desire for personal gratification.
• The fact that Catholics are not really praying for vocations, especially before the Eucharist in adoration chapels.
• The selfishness of those who are called by Christ and are failing to respond to their vocations.
• The terrible scandal caused by members of the clergy abusing children.
• The low morale of some priests that makes it impossible for them to be dynamic ambassadors for the priesthood.
• The concern that there may be an active homosexual presence in some seminaries.
• The loss of reverence in the liturgy, the lack of devotion to Mary, and indifference to the clear teachings of the Holy Father.

I think the last point is the most important.

All great points, I concur with every one.

Here’s a few possible reasons nobody has mentioned here yet.

1.) God is just not calling as many men to be priests as previously. Plain and simple. It’s as though we can’t admit that this could be a possibility. It’s uncomfortable. So we look for something else to pin the blame on (feminism, orthodoxy, gays, etc.) because we have a mindset that we are ENTITLED to a plethora of priests.

2.) The screening process for priesthood candidates is too rigid and narrow. Forget the “radicalist agenda conspiracy” theory - I’m just talking about our desire to find the perfect candidates, we throw out a lot of the good ones, because we have a lot more screening tools with which to discriminate. We do it with good reason, too: today’s society has a “I’ll sue you” mentality. We demand more of our priests, too. But many religious will admit that “Well, by today’s standards, I probably would not have made the cut.”

3.) What young man (or anyone, for that matter) wants a 24-7 job in the spotlight serving a populace divided against itself? If I were considering the priesthood and lurking around these message boards, I would conclude that my most dedicated parishioners-to-be were hostile to each other in sharing their vision of faith, and that I would be “pew-policed” no matter what I did.

And these too, as well as many others proposed in this thread.

I have to say nearly countless influences in our culture, and in the Church, have conspired against the priesthood in the past few decades. Its a wonder any are considering this as an option for their lives at all.

 

[Houro]

As a young man considering the Priesthood, I think I can shed some light on the issue. Maybe. From what I have seen, the youth in the Church is starting to slip away. It is easier to get stoned or drunk on Sunday’s than it is to go and worship our Lord. Sometimes I wish we were as fanatical as the Muslims. (Not the extremeists) And when young people go to Church, there isn’t really alot to do or be involved in. It’s go to Church then go back to normal life, which is sad. And with this comes the small amount of men joining the religious life. It isn’t encouraged or welcomed with the family. It’s also hard when your the only one of your mates trying to follow Jesus and to take this huge step. Watching them make loads of $$$ after school, sleep with girls, get drunk and have a great time. It’s hard when there is nobody to encourage you. And you slip.

I think we just need to keep praying and God will give us what we ‘need’, but we need to start supporting the Youth in a bigger way.

Hope that is a little insight from some youth in the Church.

 

[setter]

Here’s a few possible reasons nobody has mentioned here yet.

1.) God is just not calling as many men to be priests as previously. Plain and simple. It’s as though we can’t admit that this could be a possibility. It’s uncomfortable. So we look for something else to pin the blame on (feminism, orthodoxy, gays, etc.) because we have a mindset that we are ENTITLED to a plethora of priests.

Translation: There is a lack of generosity in response to give one’s life for others. Plain and simple.

2.) The screening process for priesthood candidates is too rigid and narrow. Forget the “radicalist agenda conspiracy” theory - I’m just talking about our desire to find the perfect candidates, we throw out a lot of the good ones, because we have a lot more screening tools with which to discriminate. We do it with good reason, too: today’s society has a “I’ll sue you” mentality. We demand more of our priests, too. But many religious will admit that “Well, by today’s standards, I probably would not have made the cut.”

Translation: The Church is reaping the harvest of past lack of rigorous screening and proper seminary discernment and formation process.

3.) What young man (or anyone, for that matter) wants a 24-7 job in the spotlight serving a populace divided against itself? If I were considering the priesthood and lurking around these message boards, I would conclude that my most dedicated parishioners-to-be were hostile to each other in sharing their vision of faith, and that I would be “pew-policed” no matter what I did.

Translation: The priesthood is more than a job, it is a mission and vocation that God invites and calls one to.

IMHO …

 

[Unfinished]

I am in the Diocease of Raleigh. I just watched a video the other week that 30 years ago, the Priest to Partitioner ratio used to be like 1 in 500. Now it is 1 in 1700.

I am inclined to become a Priest. I do have a desire for it, but my biggest stumbling block is I am more inclined to getting married.

I think for most young men, being celibate is the biggest problem. Even more so with the sex driven society all around them. Being celibate is rather taboo these days.

I trust God will show me my path. I see myself with a loving wife and children, and I am truely happy. But I also see myself serving God, and that always makes me happy.

Who knows? If the right girl comes along, then I will know for sure. Otherwise, I will continue to pray.

Adam

 

[scriabin]

This is definitely NOT my opinion; but I thought I’d share with you what a neighboring parish’s old Jesuit priest had to say:

“The Holy Spirit is not sending vocations because we’re not listening to the Spirit. Married men would be lining up at the door if only Rome would listen to what the Spirit is saying and change the celibacy rules.”

'nuff said.

 

[Al_Masetti]

joshjacob:

I would like to hear what everyone’s opions is regarding the lack of priests. Here are a few of my own opions:

• Lack of religion in the family.
• No encouragement from family and friends.
• Priesthood is too demanding.

I am looking forward to hearing from other members opions. I hope we can recognize the problems and fix them before it goes beyond the breaking point.

Thanks,
joshjacob

Seminaries have actively screened out “orthodox” / “conservative” candidates with the justification that they are “too rigid”.

Read “Goodbye, Good Men” by Michael Rose.

Compare those seminaries or dioceses that have an ABUNDANCE of ordinations, seminarians (or any other census indication) with those that have few.

Consider those seminaries that specialize in “late ordinations”; they are packed and turn candidates away for the lack of space.

Consider that there are numerous new religious orders (such as Fransiscans for the Renewal) that are packed with new religious vocations.

If the “issues” (celibacy, etc) were actual, then they would apply equally across the country. But that’s not the case.