Ladies

[Liberanosamalo]

I’d go in a heartbeat, even to the man who is her religious “advisor”, the man who has torn our family apart. Anything to get her talking. I have tied to get her to talk to me at all times of the day, in all different wways, but nothing works.

The funny thing about this forum is if the sexes were reversed, if I were the wife and she was the husband, the same ladies who are taking me to town for a lashing would suggest that the husband was probably having an affair, definately addicted to porn, probably full fo social diseases and I should divorce him for the sake of the children. I would be at risk for physical, emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse. Since she is a woman, however, it is to be tolerated. It’s probably my fault anyway, right?

Well, that’s judgmental… you don’t think we can tell the difference between someone who shows the signs of an affair and someone who is being abused?

No, this is not a situation where you just tolerate it. That is unfair to the children, to you and to her.

Some women don’t want to go to a therapist because they don’t want a referee in their lives. Someone who is perceived as being enlisted by the husband to “fix” them. Or to gang up on them.

For whatever reasons, your wife changed religions mid-stream. That seems to be the lynchpin of your problems… not that she changed, but WHY she changed, and what the “new religion” does for her that the old one didn’t.

I’ve seen it happen with women even in Catholic circles where they get bizarre religious ideas that cause them to chase off husbands and break up families. In that case, I wouldn’t hesitate to use the word “diabolical influence.”

If that is what you’re dealing with, normal communication will not work.

Nor will drinking.

Satan will just suck you right in. And your kids with you.

But telling her she is under Satan’s influence probably won’t be helpful.

You need to model for her that YOUR religion and YOUR answers makes you a HAPPY, GENEROUS, LOVING man. And it brings peace to your life.

Otherwise, her “new” answer will be what she clings to.

Is there a crush involved with her new guru? Alienation of affection?

You don’t lure her back by attacking her where she is. You remind her of who she married. Find that man inside you and court her. Not beg. Not cajole. Her soul is at stake. Your soul is at stake. And most of all your children’s souls.

Again, my answer would be the same for a woman whose husband had quit the church and wouldn’t talk.

And probably the reason she doesn’t talk is she doesn’t want another religious debate. I never met a convert who became Catholic because of a debate. All the ones I met became Catholic because of the goodness of the Catholics they knew.

 

[GhostMan]

Libro,

It would help a bit if you tried not to be so judgemental in your posts. That attitude really clouds anyhting good you have to say. For instance, you keep harping on “getting drunk”. I said I drank too much red wine and passed out on the couch. That isn’t the same as intentionally getting drunk. It was two am and I had had too many glasses. I didn’t want to go back up to the bed, so I stayed on the couch. I was drinking wine as I tried to reflect on how we had gotten where we were.

I have given up only because I have spent the last two years doing everything I could think of and now I have nothing left to try. I did ask for ladies advice and I took what I thought was the best option. She rejected it without using the words that would make her look bad. It was very manipulative - something that’s gotten pretty common lately.

I didn’t expect you to call her a witch, she isn’t. She’s my wife and as such I am called to love her as Christ loved the church. I won’t bother to list the things I’m doing to try and live that out, but suffice it to say they are there.

As for the children, some of them are grown and married, others still at home. The ones who came back at Christmas and saw the changes in the last six months told me they admired my determination to put the best face on things for the other children and admired the way I was modeling being a husband in difficult times.

My wife’s spiritual advisor is a religious man - a Christian - who I have not spoken with directly. I would love to do it and ask him to back off, but if she found out she’d blow up. I don’t feel like discussing the actual church she converted to would help matters here. All that matters is it is a Christian group and lacks the fullness of the truth.

As for blame, I blame myself for allowing her to wander off. I failed to be a good husband and help her to see where she might be headed. I failed in many ways - do a search on my previous posts and you will find a better litany. No sense recapping.

I do blame her for putting a wall between us. I can’t help that, it’s the truth. Her conversion was the most painful thing in my life. Time isn’t going to fix that - I can never participate in religious servies with her. I have had to step down from posts I held because of her actions. I now am not capable of serving my church as I felt I was called to do - that hurts too.

Back to the email that started this latest post. I only tried to rekindle the wonderful things that have been part of our marriage. It was a statement of my honest promise to do what ever we needed to do as a couple and as a man to bring us back together. That rejection was crushing.

She won’t talk about anything important. She won’t go to counseling. She won’t admit that she has done anything wrong.

I want to talk, I want to go to counseling, I freely admit to her all the things I have done wrong. I have a lot of flaws, but being too prideful to admit my own sin isn’t one of them. Perhaps being unable to keep from re-committing some of those sins is, but that isn’t the same thing. I know I’m a fallen creature, saved by the blood of Christ and the grace of the Father. My sins are before me daily.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Ghostman,
I’m not judgmental, just blunt. And I can only call it like I see it given the words an OP uses. If I read too much into the wine thing, sorry.

Ahh! Another piece of the puzzle…

As for the children, some of them are grown and married, others still at home. The ones who came back at Christmas and saw the changes in the last six months told me they admired my determination to put the best face on things for the other children and admired the way I was modeling being a husband in difficult times.

Does she maintain any intimacy with your kids? What does she tell them? What do THEY say?

I’m not unsympathetic to your plight. I have been at the receiving end of someone who won’t admit anything he did and blamed me and shut down. I know that at a certain point there IS no marriage anymore. And it may be small consolation to you, but I’ve seen your situation where people stay Catholic and get involved in groups within the church that seem almost more Catholic than the pope. They then use their new devotion as an excuse to divide a family. So it’s not just a matter of your wife being part of another religious affiliation. The same could happen with her still in the Church.

If any part of her “conversion” involved any kind of infatuation with her spiritual advisor, that will eventually fade or blow up in her face or whatever. She might find her conversion was about a person, and not about any Truth. Time might be on your side here. I wouldn’t suggest talking to her advisor either. Nothing good would come from it, and she would accuse you of going behind her back.

Again, my original advice stands. Take her out and celebrate New Years. Don’t let any negativity on her part deter you. Have a good time. Flirt with her. Joke with her. At the very least, you will be doing something outside of what she expects and it might confuse her a little in her certainty she thinks she has it all figured out. Don’t be predictable in that regard. You played right into her hands by cancelling the other evening. Sometimes if you throw everything off balance a little bit the other person gets a different view too.

And pray for her to see the Truth. Let that be your big prayer. Every time you look at her, if you said a prayer in your head for her, it might help. Don’t talk to her. Talk to God about her.

It will change your attitude and appearance to her. (It’s hard to pray with an unpleasant look on your face.). Your smile at her will be kinder. You will be quieter too. But a peaceful quiet. She might begin to wonder what YOU are thinking! And if she asks you what you are thinking, just smile and say “I was just noticing how pretty you are.” And then go do something else.

Change YOU. That may provoke an equal and opposite reaction in her!

Good luck!

 

[whatevergirl]

BeeSweet

Thank you for that much kinder - and useful - response. You’re right, the internet makes it easy to do a hit and run on someone and not worry about a real person being behind the other side.

As for counseling, I have suggested it several times. The first time, a year and a half ago, she literally screamed at me that there was no way she would ever go to a therapist with me. I went myself a few times but it was useless.

Since then I havfge tried a few other times to suggest it. Once she agreed, if I found someone who essentially would agree on her religious position. I don’t even know where to begin to look since almost all of her religious positions are secrets that she hides from me. I asked her to suggest one - anyone - and I promised I would go. She refused.

I’d go in a heartbeat, even to the man who is her religious “advisor”, the man who has torn our family apart. Anything to get her talking. I have tied to get her to talk to me at all times of the day, in all different wways, but nothing works.

The funny thing about this forum is if the sexes were reversed, if I were the wife and she was the husband, the same ladies who are taking me to town for a lashing would suggest that the husband was probably having an affair, definately addicted to porn, probably full fo social diseases and I should divorce him for the sake of the children. I would be at risk for physical, emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse. Since she is a woman, however, it is to be tolerated. It’s probably my fault anyway, right?

At the heart, I just want her back. I want her to want to come back to us, to me. I want her to miss us and what we had. I want her to value me again and to see that we had something wonderful.

Ah well, where there’s nothing to be done, only patience is needed, right?

I would also like to add that sometimes marriages go through cycles…painful, and desolate ones. My dh and I about 8 years ago, had a very tough time in our marriage. We separated, and there was desolation for a while. It can happen, and I wouldn’t recommend people getting separated over it…but, sometimes, one or the other spouse grows in a different direction–a direction that the other spouse doesn’t want to go in, for good reason, much of the time. I will leave you with this…you and your wife are one flesh, and perhaps, sharing that with her in a letter (another one) might help? It took me a long time to not want to debate my husband, or to really believe ‘he was on my side.’ Thing is–there are no sides in marriage…you’re on the same side, playing for the ‘same team.’ The way God designed it to be. But, if she is not ready to open herself up to you–it truly could be a cycle that your marriage is in…but, just keep planting seeds…telling her you love her. See, love should not seek to hear it back…ouch, I know that is tough! When we are trying to love another–any flicker of something helps us to stay motivated. But, keep loving her…telling her so…maybe send flowers out of the blue for no reason. I’m not advocating being a doormat–no no no. I am advocating loving her with very little in return right now…because sometimes, marriages go through that.

I hope I’ve helped…but you sound like a very loving husband. Your wife might just be ‘going through something’ right now, and she doesn’t know how to express that to you, without it causing a debate, or fight. Just be there. (And just keep planting those love seeds…they will grow, I promise) God wouldn’t let your hard work go in vain. God bless you!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I posted elsewhere but this is an appropriate place to talk about the Holy Family sermon I heard today. The priest said that God did not give us families to make us happy. “Those who expect their family to make them happy are probably miserable, and making everyone around them miserable too.” His premise was that families exist, and we are put in families to make us holy. Through our interactions with others, our bumping into them, our conflicting needs, etc., we are supposed to become less selfish, more loving, more seeking the happiness of the other members. And more dependent on God. That our family members sanctify us either through their holy example, or they force us to trust God and depend on God more because of their not so holy example.

But when we expect THEM to make US happy, that is where we go wrong and doom ourselves to disappointment. GhostMan, your wife can make you very holy. It all depends on how you play the hand you’re dealt. None of us can control the cards we’re dealt. But we can control what we do with them.

 

[LSK]

What is great about this entire situation is that you, Ghost man, have a chance to be a REAL man…and show people how, through every day suffering, one can meet their responsibilities and be a good, solid Catholic. Aren’t you blessed to be a member of The Church where suffering is valued? Think of all the wonderful souls in Purgatory you can help with your situation.

Surrender this situation to God. Maybe He wants your full attention now for a specific reason and so has removed something from your life you think is very VERY important…so now, you can join your sufferings with His and make a real difference in the world.

My prayers are with you, my brother. May St. Joseph, the chaste spouse of the Blessed Virgin, guide you from now on so that you can walk every day towards Eternal Glory.

 

[timotheos]

His premise was that families exist, and we are put in families to make us holy. Through our interactions with others, our bumping into them, our conflicting needs, etc., we are supposed to become less selfish, more loving, more seeking the happiness of the other members. And more dependent on God. That our family members sanctify us either through their holy example, or they force us to trust God and depend on God more because of their not so holy example.

GhostMan, I really sympathize with you, but I must agree this is a great opportunity for you as Liberano says above, a great quote. I know it’s really painful right now, but don’t look to DW for your happiness during this time. Go to adoration, pray, read Scripture, whatever it is that makes you happy to be Catholic. I am taking this advice to heart in my own life. My prayers are with you.

Tim

 

[Brenda_V]

Her response was tepid at best. She accepted, but with the caveat that we don’t spend much money. She also launched into a defensive posture about feeling like everything was always her fault. I responded back saying how disappointed I was and to forget the whoile thing. I was so deverstated I drank way too much red wine and passed out in desolation.

GhostMan - before I write any more on this and be accused of attacking you again I want to make sure I am understanding what you wrote. I quoted just this part of your e-mail about the advise you took. I have high-lighted in blue the part about her response. I will indeed get into the rest of this quote after I understand what you meant in the blue part. You said that she had accepted, is this correct? Accepting is the same as saying yes, right?

Brenda V.

p.s. I don’t think we need to get into the last part of this quote about you drinking too much wine, you explained that already and I now see that you just wrote it in a way that could be taken to mean “I got drunk and passed out drunk” or “I was really tired and those two glasses of wine were just enough sedative to let me sleep and I was just too tired to leave the couch”.

 

[Seatuck]

What is great about this entire situation is that you, Ghost man, have a chance to be a REAL man…and show people how, through every day suffering, one can meet their responsibilities and be a good, solid Catholic. Aren’t you blessed to be a member of The Church where suffering is valued? Think of all the wonderful souls in Purgatory you can help with your situation.

Surrender this situation to God. Maybe He wants your full attention now for a specific reason and so has removed something from your life you think is very VERY important…so now, you can join your sufferings with His and make a real difference in the world.

My prayers are with you, my brother. May St. Joseph, the chaste spouse of the Blessed Virgin, guide you from now on so that you can walk every day towards Eternal Glory.

I think there is a lot of truth in this post. And piece that doesn’t exactly pertain but the sentiment is true.

Ghost Man, have you gotten down on your knees and asked God what it is he wants from you in this?Perhaps he is using your wife’s conversion to lead you into the church. Have you seriously considered that at all? Or is your pride preventing you from seeing the truth? I know it is difficult when you are the husband and you are supposed to be the spiritual leader .(I’m a big promoter of that concept in my Catholic household). However, it may be this is one of those cases where the wife was called to Catholicism first and as your helpmeet will be the one to help you get here as well.

Have you offered to study the church and her teachings with your wife and pray with her for God’s guidance in this matter?Have you taken an honest look at the writings of the early church and compared them to what you believe? Have you truly taken up this cross and born it well? Have you embraced your suffering? I recognize the legitimate pain and suffering you are going through in this. My husband and I rarely grow in holiness at the same time . This brings about some difficulty and suffering in our marriage at times. God brings all suffering to good though. Will you let him work his grace in your life? Are you as a husband willing to sacrifice for your wife the way Christ sacrificed for his bride?

Just some thoughts that came to my mind. I am praying for you both. No need to answer.