Lady in the Pulpit?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Truthlives
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Truthlives

Guest
I recently went to a morning mass in a neighborhood I recently moved to. When I walked in there was a woman in an alb in the priest’s chair. She read the Epistles, the Gospel, and also preached a sermon. We then had a communion service. Is she allowed to do this at a communion service? Would it be wrong to attend a communion service like this?
 
Women who perform the functions of a priest are automatically excommunicated. The Mass you attended is invalid. Write your bishop about this at once so the issue can be handled properly by the Church.
 
It sounds to me as if you wandered into an Anglican (Episcopalian) church. Some of their churches look very Catholic, with statues, candles and stations of the Cross.

Even if this was just an Eucharistic Service and not a Mass, a woman, who is automatically a lay personin the Catholic Church, cannot say the Gospel nor preach.
 
…Or she may have been presiding over a Eucharistic Service. A priest may have not been available to celebrate. I hope this person didn’t consecrate the Eucharist itself, that is a big no-no, certainly invalid. Usually the presider of the Eucharistic Service will take consecrated hosts from the Tabernacle. We used to have those in my parish, but there were 2 other churches in town, so I always attended Mass at one of them. In my humble opinion, if there are other churches nearby holding Mass, a Eucharistic Service is not necessary. When we got 2 new Priests, one covered the other on his day off. They were very faithful priests, did not like Eucharistic Services.
 
…Or she may have been presiding over a Eucharistic Service. A priest may have not been available to celebrate. I hope this person didn’t consecrate the Eucharist itself, that is a big no-no, certainly invalid. Usually the presider of the Eucharistic Service will take consecrated hosts from the Tabernacle. We used to have those in my parish, but there were 2 other churches in town, so I always attended Mass at one of them. In my humble opinion, if there are other churches nearby holding Mass, a Eucharistic Service is not necessary. When we got 2 new Priests, one covered the other on his day off. They were very faithful priests, did not like Eucharistic Services.
Exactly - women ARE permitted to preside over Communion Services, although not to consecrate the Eucharist.

Can I have some specifics on the rules which prohibit a female, presiding over a Communion Service, from reading the Gospel? I thought that rule only applied during Mass.
 
This topic is covered in James Akin’s book “Mass Confusion”.
 
Exactly - women ARE permitted to preside over Communion Services, although not to consecrate the Eucharist.

Can I have some specifics on the rules which prohibit a female, presiding over a Communion Service, from reading the Gospel? I thought that rule only applied during Mass.
I don’t know if women are allowed to preside, but I know they did in my parish.

The original poster also stated that the lady was wearing an alb? Waz up with that???
 
there is a rite for a communion service outside Mass, if there is no ordained person available a lay person may lead it, even a (gasp) woman and should be suitable dressed, and an alb suitably covers casual clothing. before condemning please check and please provide a source for your condemnation. she may proclaim the readings, even the gospel, and she may even offer a brief reflection, which by definition is NOT a homily because it is not a teaching based on the readings given by the priest during Mass. search for the frequent discussions here of communion service with liturgy of the Word outside Mass. posts 2, 3 & 4 are wrong. nowhere does OP say she attempted to consecrate, it clearly says this was proclamation of the Word with distribution of communion
 
Was it an alb or a surplice?

If she was wearing a stole as well then it would be time to call the bishop since this is a sign of authority and holy orders.

James
 
I have been trying to find the proper formula for a Catholic Communion Service in the absence of a priest. I haven’t yet.

The only thing I did find is that whoever presides cannot use the priests chair.
 
I recently went to a morning mass in a neighborhood I recently moved to. When I walked in there was a woman in an alb in the priest’s chair. She read the Epistles, the Gospel, and also preached a sermon. We then had a communion service. Is she allowed to do this at a communion service? Would it be wrong to attend a communion service like this?
Technically in my opinion there should not be a Communion Service on a weekday. Weekday Mass is not an obligation, a lay lead Liturgy of Morning Prayer would be more appropriate.
 
If this was a Catholic Church, she should not have been in priest clothing. Please see…Instruction: On Certain Questions Regarding The Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html and **Instruction: Redemptionis Sacramentum. On certain matters to be observed and avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist ** vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html . Those should clear up any questions you have about her role at Mass, but under no circumstance is a women supposed to be in the dress of a priest or give the appearance of doing a priestly function according to those documents. Laity/Non-Ordained cannot cause confusion and cannot wear priestly garments. You’ll see it in the documents.

Pax tecum.
 
I witnessed this also at a Roman Catholic Church. It was about 14 years ago in Berkeley CA (surprise). I think the church may have been St. Joseph the Worker.

I was visiting the area for a conference being held at a nearby hotel. I attended morning mass before my conference on a Tuesday.

The Mass was fine, but I remember not liking the priest. In fact, I remember (sorry … here is a confession) … saying to myself, “this priest is a fool”.

This is because, there were about 5 old ladies over 70 in church that morning, and me (sitting way in the back). The priest gave a very long homily for a weekday Mass, and it was about the Gospel of John. “The whole Gospel” and its writing style, as being a very Greek text … he basically was discrediting John’s portrayal/depiction of Jesus …

I thought … “what a dang fool this priest is …” … do the math.

Anyway the next day, I went to Mass again (or so I thought) … and a lady came on the altar, and basically “walked through the entire mass” with the exception of not speaking the words of institution, i.e. consecration of the Eucharist. She EVEN read the gospel and gave a homily.

… suffice it to say, I didn’t go to Mass on Thursday 🙂
 
Is anyone here an extraordinary minister or perhaps knows what the wording of the rite says.

As we have a Franciscan community here, we have solemn morning prayer followed by Holy Mass every weekday. Yes we are very fortunate! 🙂 However, sometimes, the priest has to be absent from the parish for various reasons, always very important for us and the Franciscan province. Then we have a Communion service. I couldn’t possibly imagine that anyone who conducted the service, man or woman, apart from the permanent deacon would don an alb nor sit in the priests chair.

I haven’t been to one in years but I can ony remember the congregation saying the Our Father and Lord I am not worthy before Communion.

I think that the 2 readings and the psalm are said but I’m not sure about the gospel.
 
Chapter VII

EXTRAORDINARY FUNCTIONS
OF LAY FAITHFUL

[146.] There can be no substitute whatsoever for the ministerial Priesthood. For if a Priest is lacking in the community, then the community lacks the exercise and sacramental function of Christ the Head and Shepherd, which belongs to the essence of its very life.[247] For “the only minister who can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest”.[248]

[147.] When the Church’s needs require it, however, if sacred ministers are lacking, lay members of Christ’s faithful may supply for certain liturgical offices according to the norm of law.[249] Such faithful are called and appointed to carry out certain functions, whether of greater or lesser weight, sustained by the Lord’s grace. Many of the lay Christian faithful have already contributed eagerly to this service and still do so, especially in missionary areas where the Church is still of small dimensions or is experiencing conditions of persecution,[250] but also in areas affected by a shortage of Priests and Deacons.

[148.] Particular importance is to be attached to the training of catechists, who by means of great labours have given and still give outstanding and altogether necessary help in the spreading of the faith and of the Church.[251]

[149.] More recently, in some dioceses long since evangelized, members of Christ’s lay faithful have been appointed as “pastoral assistants”, and among them many have undoubtedly served the good of the Church by providing assistance to the Bishop, Priests and Deacons in the carrying out of their pastoral activity. Let care be taken, however, lest the delineation of this function be assimilated too closely to the form of pastoral ministry that belongs to clerics. That is to say, attention should be paid to ensuring that “pastoral assistants” do not take upon themselves what is proper to the ministry of the sacred ministers.

[150.] The activity of a pastoral assistant should be directed to facilitating the ministry of Priests and Deacons, to ensuring that vocations to the Priesthood and Diaconate are awakened and that lay members of Christ’s faithful in each community are carefully trained for the various liturgical functions, in keeping with the variety of charisms and in accordance with the norm of law.

[151.] Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional.[252] Furthermore, when recourse is had out of necessity to the functions of extraordinary ministers, special urgent prayers of intercession should be multiplied that the Lord may soon send a Priest for the service of the community and raise up an abundance of vocations to sacred Orders.[253]

[152.] These purely supplementary functions must not be an occasion for disfiguring the very ministry of Priests, in such a way that the latter neglect the celebration of Holy Mass for the people for whom they are responsible, or their personal care of the sick, or the baptism of children, or assistance at weddings or the celebration of Christian funerals, matters which pertain in the first place to Priests assisted by Deacons. It must therefore never be the case that in parishes Priests alternate indiscriminately in shifts of pastoral service with Deacons or laypersons, thus confusing what is specific to each.

[153.] Furthermore, it is never licit for laypersons to assume the role or the vesture of a Priest or a Deacon or other clothing similar to such vesture

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
 
If this was a Catholic Church, she should not have been in priest clothing. Please see…Instruction: On Certain Questions Regarding The Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html and **Instruction: Redemptionis Sacramentum. On certain matters to be observed and avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist **vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html . Those should clear up any questions you have about her role at Mass, but under no circumstance is a women supposed to be in the dress of a priest or give the appearance of doing a priestly function according to those documents. Laity/Non-Ordained cannot cause confusion and cannot wear priestly garments. You’ll see it in the documents.

Pax tecum.
The Alb is the proper vestment for a lay person in the performance of a lay ministry within a liturgical context…
 
The Alb is the proper vestment for a lay person in the performance of a lay ministry within a liturgical context…
So as long as she did not recite a Homily, and the capacity in which she acted was within necessity, not an abuse by the priest, she did nothing wrong.
 
The Alb is the proper vestment for a lay person in the performance of a lay ministry within a liturgical context…
I agree. But for her to sit in the Priest’s chair was a direct conveyance of implicit authority. She should have sat conspicuously to the attendant chairs.

James
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top