Lady of All Nations - Co-redemptrix

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Simon Caldwell, in his February 11, 2006 The Times article “Appearances can be downright deceptive” (see timesonline.co.uk/article/0,3933-2034462,00.html) states: “Barely a month after his [BXVI] election, the CDF issued two documents. One was … , and the other was a letter to the Filipino bishops effectively declaring as false the claims of Ida Peerdeman, a Dutch seer, that the Virgin Mary had revealed new truths about her status.”

“Days later the CDF took the unusual step of overruling the decision of Bishop Joseph Maria Punt, of Haarlem in the Netherlands, to approve claims that the Virgin Mary had appeared in Amsterdam under the guise of “Lady of All Nations who once was Mary”, sounding the death knell for an international movement to redefine the Virgin as ‘coredemptrix, mediatrix and advocate’.”

How can one determine the truthfulness of this media report? I cannot find confirmation of this via Internet searching.

Thanks
 
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ZeProf:
sounding the death knell for an international movement to redefine the Virgin as ‘coredemptrix, mediatrix and advocate’."
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Vatican II called her Mediatrix and Advocate. Pope after pope has called her co-redemptrix (or equivalent). She is such. So the Church isn’t going to start sounding death knells to the contrary. Although there may never come an extraordinary definition of the doctrines.
 
Well as Mark Miravalle stated, the prayer exception
not saying ‘who once was Mary’ is to be avoided only
when 2 or more people are praying…just in groups.

However, all this was approved by the Vatican a few
short years ago and then they added an addendum
for this exclusion most recently…

Its interesting to note that this issue arose throgh its use with a Phillipino Prayer Group.
As you may know, the Phillipino Catholics have been known to be a very superstitious group, with some odd practices, beliefs or traditions that are looked at with askance. It may all be related to that aspect of it! Who knows!

I would say that if you have a good understanding of what you are saying in the prayer then I wouldnt
worry about it and say it as it was delivered when you are in prayer by yourself.

I have said this prayer and will say it again some time in the future.

May I recommend this website with a grain of salt.
www.unitypublishing.com

the guy behind this site used to be an apparitions promoter, now he is an avowed apparitions denier.
He provides a good way of applying discernment
to apparitions, although I think he has too much of
a jaundiced eye towards things. He doesnt believe
in Medujorge and Lady of All Nations. I’d prefer to
believe that they are most likely true. Still a very good site.
 
As a Byzantine Catholic practicing an ancient orthodox faith, I must say I’m shocked and stunned at the mere thought of considering terms like “Co-redeptress, Co-savior”, etc., etc. This is HERESY, pure and simple. The highest, most exalted title to be used in her connection is “THEOTOKOS” --God Bearer. I’m surprized that simply by typing in those other terms, my keyboad doesn’t burst into flame!! There is only ONE Savior, there is only one God and creator, the Trinity in nature – and she isn’t it!

Next I suppose someone will use a term like “goddess”.

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, in this stressful yet contemplative time of the Great Fast, save us from the snares of Satan, uprising of heresies, and distraction by those who would lead us from the true path; save our souls and have mercy on us.
 
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Beeline:
Well as Mark Miravalle stated, the prayer exception
not saying ‘who once was Mary’ is to be avoided only
when 2 or more people are praying…just in groups.

However, all this was approved by the Vatican a few
short years ago and then they added an addendum
for this exclusion most recently…

Its interesting to note that this issue arose throgh its use with a Phillipino Prayer Group.
As you may know, the Phillipino Catholics have been known to be a very superstitious group, with some odd practices, beliefs or traditions that are looked at with askance. It may all be related to that aspect of it! Who knows!

I would say that if you have a good understanding of what you are saying in the prayer then I wouldnt
worry about it and say it as it was delivered when you are in prayer by yourself.

I have said this prayer and will say it again some time in the future.

May I recommend this website with a grain of salt.
www.unitypublishing.com

the guy behind this site used to be an apparitions promoter, now he is an avowed apparitions denier.
He provides a good way of applying discernment
to apparitions, although I think he has too much of
a jaundiced eye towards things. He doesnt believe
in Medujorge and Lady of All Nations. I’d prefer to
believe that they are most likely true. Still a very good site.
Click to expand...
Medjugorie certainly is not true. There has already been three negative declarations by Bishops Commissions.
 
As a Byzantine Catholic practicing an ancient orthodox faith, I must say I’m shocked and stunned at the mere thought of considering terms like “Co-redeptress, Co-savior”, etc., etc. This is HERESY, pure and simple. The highest, most exalted title to be used in her connection is “THEOTOKOS” --God Bearer. I’m surprized that simply by typing in those other terms, my keyboad doesn’t burst into flame!! There is only ONE Savior, there is only one God and creator, the Trinity in nature – and she isn’t it!

Next I suppose someone will use a term like “goddess”.

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, in this stressful yet contemplative time of the Great Fast, save us from the snares of Satan, uprising of heresies, and distraction by those who would lead us from the true path; save our souls and have mercy on us.
 
J. J.:
As a Byzantine Catholic practicing an ancient orthodox faith, I must say I’m shocked and stunned at the mere thought of considering terms like “Co-redeptress, Co-savior”, etc., etc. This is HERESY, pure and simple. The highest, most exalted title to be used in her connection is “THEOTOKOS” --God Bearer. I’m surprized that simply by typing in those other terms, my keyboad doesn’t burst into flame!! There is only ONE Savior, there is only one God and creator, the Trinity in nature – and she isn’t it!
Next I suppose someone will use a term like “goddess”.

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, in this stressful yet contemplative time of the Great Fast, save us from the snares of Satan, uprising of heresies, and distraction by those who would lead us from the true path; save our souls and have mercy on us.
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church teaches that Mary is not divine. There is no fourth person to be added to the Trinity and there never will be.
 
J. J.:
As a Byzantine Catholic practicing an ancient orthodox faith, I must say I’m shocked and stunned at the mere thought of considering terms like “Co-redeptress, Co-savior”, etc., etc. This is HERESY, pure and simple. The highest, most exalted title to be used in her connection is “THEOTOKOS” --God Bearer. I’m surprized that simply by typing in those other terms, my keyboad doesn’t burst into flame!! There is only ONE Savior, there is only one God and creator, the Trinity in nature – and she isn’t it!

Next I suppose someone will use a term like “goddess”.

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, in this stressful yet contemplative time of the Great Fast, save us from the snares of Satan, uprising of heresies, and distraction by those who would lead us from the true path; save our souls and have mercy on us.
Click to expand...
Why do so many Byzantine Catholics seem to thumb their noses at everything Latin simply because it is Latin? I can say it sure hasn’t made me want to look into the Byzantine Rite much.

The Latin Rite is a beautiful ancient Tradition of its own. If you don’t like it, there are others you can join- but remember, tons and tons of saints have found the Latin Rite- with all the things that make it unique- to be very inspirational. Please don’t trash it.

Co-Redemptrix simply means she helps in salvation. ‘Co’ means ‘with’. I admit sometimes the Latin Rite has some archaic and confusing ways of referring to things- “praying TO saints” for example- I know in Shakespearean England, it simply meant ask and didn’t stop there necessarily- but we’re not in Shakespearean England anymore.

The apparitions at Garabandal are rejected by the Church as not being genuine. We cannot follow them. The “Lady of the Nations” prayer sounds awfully new-agey and I will have nothing to do with it. The apparitions at Medjugorje seem repetitive, and a bit new-agey as well. I personally think the visionaries are just crazy.

Also…one post is enough…
 
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m134e5:
The apparitions at Garabandal are rejected by the Church as not being genuine.
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And Thistle said: “Medjugorie certainly is not true.”

Is there some central authoritative place we can go for such information?

I used to go to apparitions.org/ but it has apparently not been updated since 2004. My original query related to reported 2005 events.

God bless all for their responses.
 
Believe me- if the aparitions at Medjugorje were approved, we’d know about it.
 
Is there some central authoritative place we can go for such information?
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I used to go to apparitions.org/ but it has apparently not been updated since 2004. My original query related to reported 2005 events.
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God bless all for their responses.
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Actually, Pope JPII and then Cardinal Ratzinger saved Medjugorge(spelling) from a further condemnation by a Bishop by telling him not to file
his findings.

With things like Medjugorge, the usual finding is that
‘nothing of a supernatrual nature was found’.
In other cases, a Bishop might condemn an apparition for containing things not consistent with the faith. This has not happened for Medjugorge, so
if in 20 or more years it turns out to be true and a Bishop concurs, then the
previous Bishop declarations will have no current standing.
 
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m134e5:
Believe me- if the aparitions at Medjugorje were approved, we’d know about it.
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I could care less about Medj. However, because it has not been approved does not mean it’s not true. That would require an official condemnation. The Church is very clear that we are free to go there and do the things we want to do there.
 
J. J.:
As a Byzantine Catholic practicing an ancient orthodox faith, I must say I’m shocked and stunned at the mere thought of considering terms like “Co-redeptress, Co-savior”, etc., etc. This is HERESY, pure and simple. The highest, most exalted title to be used in her connection is “THEOTOKOS” --God Bearer. I’m surprized that simply by typing in those other terms, my keyboad doesn’t burst into flame!! There is only ONE Savior, there is only one God and creator, the Trinity in nature – and she isn’t it!

Next I suppose someone will use a term like “goddess”.

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, in this stressful yet contemplative time of the Great Fast, save us from the snares of Satan, uprising of heresies, and distraction by those who would lead us from the true path; save our souls and have mercy on us.
Click to expand...
As a Byzantine Catholic, aren’t you under the pope? Your own hierarchy has apparently come to the conclusion that there is nothing to keep our churches from communion. And yet our church holds Mary to be co-redemptrix.
 
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John_Henry:
As a Byzantine Catholic, aren’t you under the pope? Your own hierarchy has apparently come to the conclusion that there is nothing to keep our churches from communion. And yet our church holds Mary to be co-redemptrix.
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Co-Redemptrix isn’t a defined dogma. Your church may hold to it, but by not being a defined dogma, it isn’t binding on other rites.
 
As is true with the other 24 to 26 Catholic Churches in the world, we are not “under” the Pope.(the Bishop of Rome) Generally, Latin Catholics in N. America tend to think they are the only “Catholics” in the world, and if they become aware of a Catholic of a different traditional background, they must be some “sub group” of “Roman Catholics”.
Traditional background is perhaps a key phrase here. “Eastern Catholics” are, “Eastern” in tradition, style of Divine Liturgy, and customs. “Latins” are, “Western”, Roman based due to their Patriarch being located in Western Europe. (not always Rome, by the way - for several hundred years, the Roman Patriarch lived and centered the “Latin” church in France)
While Eastern Catholics, for the most part, recognize the Pope of Rome as the “Spiritual Leader” of the Catholic Church, we still maintain our own traditions & customs. We have never used Latin during the Divine Liturgy, but even today use Church Slavonic. (closely related to Ukrainian) We don’t change anything - Priest still have “their back to the congregation” (because they “lead” the congregation), there are NO women on the alter; Divine Liturgy and prayers are offered facing East - toward Jerusalem - from where the Risen Christ will come; (not “in-the-round”, or due to some clever building design) Communion is distributed by the Priest (or Deacon) - no such thing as “lay distributors”;
There are other traditional, and/or ethnic differences, but the point is that we do have unique traditions and are not UNDER the Pope of Rome per se. We also have our own, unique Canon which is somewhat different from the Latin.
One other major difference that is sure to create an uproar in the Latin Church – when our people started to emegrate to the U.S. from Eastern Europe, they obviously had no facilities for services, etc. The Latin Archbishops agreed to allow us to share some of their facilities PROVIDED we didn’t allow any more married Priests in the U.S. That agreement (created 1920) has now expired – several married men have recently been ordained, and I’m sure many more will be. This will become very apparent to Latin Parishes soon, and one would expect become a major issue regarding married Latin Priests.

I certainly don’t intend to give the impression that one “Church” is better/more valid/etc. than another; just that there are more “Catholics” in the world than just “Latin” Catholics and that if we are all more aware of them, we truly become more “universal”.

Ultimately we really don’t like to paint ourselves as an “ethnic” Church (we were known as “Greek Catholics” for too long) but more as an Eastern Catholic Church celebrating an orthodox faith,Liturgy, and customs, while recognizing The Pope of Rome as spiritual leader.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
 
There is nothing heretical about the titles Advocate, Mediatrix, and Co-Redemptrix–most people just misunderstand what they mean (that’s one reason I support a papal definition) I used to be opposed to these too. But then I read this book:

stjosephradio.org/pages/books/mary/mary_cma.htm

It’s really, really good–and it only costs $1.00 🙂 . (I tried to find it reproduced online but I couldn’t)

If anyone is serious about learning about why so many are for these being defined as dogma, please read it 🙂
 
J. J.:
Ultimately we really don’t like to paint ourselves as an “ethnic” Church (we were known as “Greek Catholics” for too long) but more as an Eastern Catholic Church celebrating an orthodox faith,Liturgy, and customs, while recognizing The Pope of Rome as spiritual leader.
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The Pope is just as authoritative in all rites. That doesn’t mean he makes everyone Latin–but it does mean he has universal jurisdiction–it’s more than spiritual leadership, it’s real governance. This is why Benedict XVI recently abandoned the title as patriarch of the West–because he is just as much the leader of the East as the West. Again, this doesn’t mean West is better than East or that West should impose it’s customs and liturgy on the East–but it does mean everyone is under the pope.

When the Eastern Churches returned to Communion at the Ecumenical Council of Florence, this is what they signed:
Council of Florence:
We also define that the holy apostolic See and the Roman pontiff holds the primacy over the whole world and the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter prince of the apostles, and that he is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole church and the father and teacher of all Christians, and to him was committed in blessed Peter the full power of tending, ruling and governing the whole church, as is contained also in the acts of ecumenical councils and in the sacred canons.
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Also, renewing the order of the other patriarchs which has been handed down in the canons, the patriarch of Constantinople should be second after the most holy Roman pontiff, third should be the patriarch of Alexandria, fourth the patriarch of Antioch, and fifth the patriarch of Jerusalem, without prejudice to all their privileges and rights.
 
I’m Catholic but I must say I can’t stand the term Co-Rdemptrix. How can we say we don’t elevate Mary to the point of God hood when we cliam her to be our co-redeemer? Jesus is our redeemer, Mary is a woman with no power to redeem us.

I’m a revert to the Catholic Church and I’m having MAJOR issues with Mary in the Catholic Church.

I posted this in two places and haven’t gotten a response yet. I recently bought the Brown Scapular and recieve the blessing. In it, it states:

“We beseech Her [as in Mary] to crush the head of the ancient serpent so that you may enter into possession of your eternal heritage through Christ our Lord.”

Now even the NAB states that Jesus will crush the head of the serpent. It’s really bothering me, I feel like an idolator sometimes. Like I said MAJOR issues with Mary.
 
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