Laitized priests and other questions

[WillP]

Actually I have three questions about holy orders

1. What happens when a priest decides he wants to quit? Does he need permission? Does he just get up and leave. How does that work?

2.How does a priest become a bishop and then a cardinal? Are these like promotions? Do you apply for the job? How does it work?

1. It seems unnatural to deprive a young male of sex. How dfoes a priest rrestrain himself? Does he take meds to keep his harmones in check?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Actually I have three questions about holy orders

1. What happens when a priest decides he wants to quit? Does he need permission? Does he just get up and leave. How does that work?

It depends on whether or not the man wishes to stay within the Church.

If he wants to stay within the Church he speaks with his bishop or religious superior and goes though a process that will eventually include Rome which will remove him from the priesthood.

If he does not care he just walks away.

2.How does a priest become a bishop and then a cardinal? Are these like promotions? Do you apply for the job? How does it work?

One is appointed. A man does not apply for these postions.

1. It seems unnatural to deprive a young male of sex. How dfoes a priest rrestrain himself? Does he take meds to keep his harmones in check?

Is this for real?

Self-control.

 

[WillP]

Thanks for the response. I could have done without the wisecrack, however

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Thanks for the response. I could have done without the wisecrack, however

Not a wisecrack.

It was a real question.

I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that believes that a man can not control himself to not act out sexually without medication.

 

[gilbs72]

Something being ‘unnatural’ does not conflict with following one’s faith. IMHO, someone who can conquer his ‘natural’ urges is even closer to home than someone who remains enslaved by urges (incidentally, this concept is confirmed even by other religions). Self-control is essential in finding God. If someone were to ask you to walk over deep raging waters, would you? What if it’s Our Lord asking–would you think twice? How about God’s voice is undeniably asking you to offer your son as a burnt offering? Peter and Abraham must have had so much faith!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Something being ‘unnatural’ does not conflict with following one’s faith. IMHO, someone who can conquer his ‘natural’ urges is even closer to home than someone who remains enslaved by urges (incidentally, this concept is confirmed even by other religions). Self-control is essential in finding God. If someone were to ask you to walk over deep raging waters, would you? What if it’s Our Lord asking–would you think twice? How about God’s voice is undeniably asking you to offer your son as a burnt offering? Peter and Abraham must have had so much faith!

I think that the view that self-control and not giving into “urges” is somehow “unnatural” troubling.

If that is so then where do we draw the line with the “urges” that we get?

 

[reconman]

I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that believes that a man can not control himself to not act out sexually without medication.

It’s called self-disipline. Lots of folks are capable of it.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It’s called self-disipline. Lots of folks are capable of it.

I already said as much.

But I used the term “self-control”.

 

[TimothyH]

1. It seems unnatural to deprive a young male of sex. How dfoes a priest rrestrain himself? Does he take meds to keep his harmones in check?

I am a celibate man. I’m not a member of the clergy. I’m not a priest, bur rather an ordinary guy who isn’t married. I therefor abstain from sex.

I also try to practice chastity - purity of heart and mind. I don’t use porn, nor do I commit acts of impurity with myself, and I try to keep myself free from impure thoughts to the extent that I am able.

Nothing could be more natural for me. I know that God designed man and woman to raise children in the context of a lifelong and one hundred percent comitted relationship. I am not in such a relationship, so I abstain.

One thing I do is guard my heart. If I find that I am thinking about a woman too much, maybe going to the grocery store when I know that a certain person is working and looking forward to the conversation a bit too much or a bit too often, I will change my routine. I might go to a different store, or at a different time when she is not working. This is just an example. Over the years I have become concious of when my heart begins to develop an attachments and when I sense it happening I distance myself.

Another thing I do is pray very much. One cannot be sexually pure in today’s world without lots of prayer. I also go to confession when I can. I can feel when I need confession - all the little things like impure thoughts and second glances at a pretty girl - they all build up over time and temptation becomes more and more difficult to fight. It begins to sadden me and I become restless and easily angered. Confession helps a great deal.

It takes a radical reliance on God to do all of this. I could never do it by myself. It is sometimes difficult.

But again, very few things could be more natural than abstaining from sex and practicing sexual purity for the sake of my salvation and as a way to make a gift of my life back to God. I think of it as having an undivided heart. Jesus is the greatest love of my life. Mary is the second greatest love of my life. I have given my heart to Jesus through Mary. Nothing could be more natural.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

I already said as much.

But I used the term “self-control”.

It’s not self discipline or self control. At least not for me. For me it is a radical reliance on God for help to do it. The more self I put into it, the less I am able to do it.

It’s actually a negation of self. The day I began loving God more than I loved myself was the day I stopped looking at porn and stopped doing all the other things that society tells us is natural.

I wonder Brother, if there is a support structure for you. It may be off topic but I would assume that a community of men would provide some guidance on this topic and a way for one to check up on himself. There is almost no one for me. If I happen to mention that I am celibate by choice, it is almost always met with astonished disbelief, or an invitation to meet someone’s sister.

-Tim-

 

[WillP]

It was a real question.

I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that believes that a man can not control himself to not act out sexually without medication.

And I find the practice of celibracy to be unnatural, and, from what I have heard and read recently, medication might not be a bad idea.

 

[TimothyH]

It was a real question.

I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that believes that a man can not control himself to not act out sexually without medication.

And I find the practice of celibracy to be unnatural, and, from what I have heard and read recently, medication might not be a bad idea.

Is there something you struggle with?

I was pretty out of control for a while. But now I am in control. I no longer respond to every urge. I decide. I can tell myself no. If I want to have sex again, it will be a decision I make, not some urge that I have to obey.

I no longer obey my genitals. They obey me.

It’s freedom really.

-Tim-

 

[catharina]

Like the old Protestant hymn says,
" 'tis grace that brought us safe thus far
and grace shall lead us home."

Grace from God.

Grace accompanies duty. Grace accompanies vocations.
Most especially, grace can and does lead us to WORK to control
ourselves as needed. I think it’s that s(name removed by moderator)le - and that difficult.

Tough commitments and PLENTY of grace!

IMO.

 

[catharina]

Is there something you struggle with?

I was pretty out of control for a while. But now I am in control. I no longer respond to every urge. I decide. I can tell myself no. If I want to have sex again, it will be a decision I make, not some urge that I have to obey.

I no longer obey my genitals. They obey me.

It’s freedom really.

-Tim-

Excellent conclusion!

 

[catharina]

It was a real question.

I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that believes that a man can not control himself to not act out sexually without medication.

And I find the practice of celibracy to be unnatural, and, from what I have heard and read recently, medication might not be a bad idea.

Who said that celibacy is natural?
In fact, it is supernatural.

 

[TS_Aquinas]

And I find the practice of celibracy to be unnatural,

Refraining from acting out a natural instinct is not unnatural if it’s within the nature of being to also naturally exercise rationality, which is the basis of chastity. It would be contrary to our nature to act out our animal sensory impulses on whim when we are ordered towards a greater degree of nature, which is rationality/intellect and will. So in reality, not refraining from having sex outside of marriage is more natural of a man and woman then a man or woman acting out such impulses.

and, from what I have heard and read recently, medication might not be a bad idea.

So when we naturally refrain from a natural instinct based on will, which is more natural of us to do rather then acting like animals on whim, you think that’s unnatural. Yet your proposition is to suppress natural instinct with unnatural means… where is the logic in that?

You need to come to grips with the fact that there are people, like us, who are fully capable of commanding our bodies according to our will, which is always ordered towards sacred ends. Don’t listen to supposed professors in liberal colleges that say acting our natural instinct of sexual desire is a liberty and accordance with nature and anyone who says otherwise is unnatural and needs a psyche evaluation. They can’t handle the fact that there are people who have a greater degree of willpower then themselves, and that bothers them greatly.

 

[gilbs72]

I think that the view that self-control and not giving into “urges” is somehow “unnatural” troubling.

If that is so then where do we draw the line with the “urges” that we get?

Brother, just to be very clear that I agree with you… notice how I kept typing ‘unnatural’ in quotes.

To extend the argument - say one is married a woman who lost her attractiveness over the years and suddenly sees a very attractive young woman. Urge says “go, go, go” but self-discipline says, “no, no, NO”.

Faith and religion aside, there ARE people who would rather endlessly discuss academics or politics or play video games and not need to have sexual relations with another human being. No medicines. Just different priorities. Proof that just because something is not common, it’s not “unnatural” either.

 

[Mike30]

It was a set up folks. Plain and simple. He wanted to attack celibacy and people fell right into the trap.

 

[catharina]

Brother, just to be very clear that I agree with you… notice how I kept typing ‘unnatural’ in quotes.

To extend the argument - say one is married a woman who lost her attractiveness over the years and suddenly sees a very attractive young woman. Urge says “go, go, go” but self-discipline says, “no, no, NO”.

Faith and religion aside, there ARE people who would rather endlessly discuss academics or politics or play video games and not need to have sexual relations with another human being. No medicines. Just different priorities. Proof that just because something is not common, it’s not “unnatural” either.

No doubt that I’ve missed your point.
Did you make a point worth noting?

What was it?

 

[JillianRose]

It was a set up folks. Plain and simple. He wanted to attack celibacy and people fell right into the trap.

I think you might be right. Why do people always have naughty questions? This is not Facebook. There are so many nice people trying to help others with their questions. I hope he is sincere.

I think it might be harder for some because it depends on what you have or are exposed to, they become desensitized. My husband and I are so happy we waited. The greatest gift you can give your spouse is your virtue. So, why wouldn’t the greatest give you give God is your celibacy? God Bless!!!