Laity Talk After the Homily?

[thomas_jd]

Again, I point out to you the citation in the actual Roman Missal which you, conveniently tend to ignore. Furthermore, a Canon Lawyer’s opinion does not hold the same weight as an authoritative document issued from the Holy See, in this case, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. Such announcments/statements belong in their proper place, after the post-Communion discussing announcements/instructions

The Document that you refer to cites Instructions and Testimonys. You also cite announcements.
The question asked is “Laity talk after the Homily.” There is much, much more to be addressed at mass than instructions, testimonys, and announcements. Sometimes the priest rely on help to fufill their message.I would love to see enough priests available to.
minister to the people. We ,as of 1990 ,have one priest per 1250 catholics. Some parishes have over 1250 people with only one priest. If a pastor calls on aid , within the guidelines of Rome, why does anyone take exception? It is obvious to all that the laity talk after the Homily.As long as they do not give a Homily, again forbidden to them,they are allowed to speak.

I ignored nothing you pointed out. You misunderstand what is written. As you have no willingness to even try to comprehend the Bishop’s direction to me, consider this interaction done. I suggest you call your Bishop or a prelate to dismiss my statements.
I never said announcements or instructions. I leave you to answer this question “What could the laity possibly talk about to aid the Pastor at Mass.”

p.s. announcements/instructions belong in their proper place, after post-Communion. The CDWDS makes that clear. Your posts regarding citation’s have no bearing whatsoever on the question asked. It is not relevant to the question!

 

[benedictgal]

benedictgal;6698944:

Again, I point out to you the citation in the actual Roman Missal which you, conveniently tend to ignore. Furthermore, a Canon Lawyer’s opinion does not hold the same weight as an authoritative document issued from the Holy See, in this case, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. Such announcments/statements belong in their proper place, after the post-Communion discussing announcements/instructions

The Document that you refer to cites Instructions and Testimonys. You also cite announcements.
The question asked is “Laity talk after the Homily.” There is much, much more to be addressed at mass than instructions, testimonys, and announcements. Sometimes the priest rely on help to fufill their message.I would love to see enough priests available to.
minister to the people. We ,as of 1990 ,have one priest per 1250 catholics. Some parishes have over 1250 people with only one priest. If a pastor calls on aid , within the guidelines of Rome, why does anyone take exception? It is obvious to all that the laity talk after the Homily.As long as they do not give a Homily, again forbidden to them,they are allowed to speak.

I ignored nothing you pointed out. You misunderstand what is written. As you have no willingness to even try to comprehend the Bishop’s direction to me, consider this interaction done. I suggest you call your Bishop or a prelate to dismiss my statements.
I never said announcements or instructions. I leave you to answer this question “What could the laity possibly talk about to aid the Pastor at Mass.”

p.s. announcements/instructions belong in their proper place, after post-Communion. The CDWDS makes that clear. Goodby

However, such talks by a laity have their proper place, if necessary, apart from the homily, not immediately after it, but way apart from it, after the Post-Communion prayer. Furthermore, such reflections should be given outside of the confines of the Mass, as stipulated in Redemptionis Sacramentum. The celebrant is the one to preach the homily, or, if need be, the deacon. That is what you do not seem to understand. If the priest needs help making his point across, then, put a reflection in the Sunday bulletin.

The bishop, according to the GIRM, regulates the following within his competency:

1. The Diocesan Bishop, who is to be regarded as the high priest of his flock, and from whom the life in Christ of the faithful under his care in a certain sense derives and upon whom it depends,148 must promote, regulate, and be vigilant over the liturgical life in his diocese. It is to him that in this Instruction is entrusted the regulating of the discipline of concelebration (cf. above, nos. 202, 374) and the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at the altar (cf. above, no. 107), the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds (cf. above, no. 283), and the construction and ordering of churches (cf. above, no. 291). With him lies responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and faithful.

Permitting laity to talk right after the homily is not one of them.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

It does not state that. You posted this same statement a month or so ago. You did not understand the meaning then or do you now. You can not interpret documents to suit your wishes.
Show the document. Don’t bother if you cite instruction or testimony as they do not apply.

I am inclined to side with you on this one, Thomas

Could you please post some supporting documentation, though,
I find it is easier to fight the battle if I have the proper weapons!!

 

[thomas_jd]

thomas jd;6699800:

However, such talks by a laity have their proper place, if necessary, apart from the homily, not immediately after it, but way apart from it, after the Post-Communion prayer. Furthermore, such reflections should be given outside of the confines of the Mass, as stipulated in Redemptionis Sacramentum. The celebrant is the one to preach the homily, or, if need be, the deacon. That is what you do not seem to understand. If the priest needs help making his point across, then, put a reflection in the Sunday bulletin.

The bishop, according to the GIRM, regulates the following within his competency:

Permitting laity to talk right after the homily is not one of them.

That is your opinion.You cite no proof whatsoever denying the laity’s ability to speak after the Homily. You cannot use Grim or Redemptious Sacramentum.
GRIM is silent on this as is Redemptious Sacramentum. The Bishop and all priest’s are within their rights to have the laity speak after the Homily. You have again failed to prove your statements disputing this.
You seem to have absolutely no conception of why a priest or a bishop could enlist the aid of someone to assist them in their obligations. This has nothing to do with the Homily, as I am sure you are well aware of. How did you manage to insert “Reflections” into this post. Reflections on what? Nevermind.

 

[benedictgal]

benedictgal;6699813:

That is your opinion.You cite no proof whatsoever denying the laity’s ability to speak after the Homily. You cannot use Grim or Redemptious Sacramentum.
GRIM is silent on this as is Redemptious Sacramentum. The Bishop and all priest’s are within their rights to have the laity speak after the Homily. You have again failed to prove your statements disputing this.
You seem to have absolutely no conception of why a priest or a bishop could enlist the aid of someone to assist them in their obligations. This has nothing to do with the Homily, as I am sure you are well aware of. How did you manage to insert “Reflections” into this post. Reflections on what? Nevermind.

No they are not. Again, you choose to ignore what has already been posted from bona fide, authoritative documents.

I take it from your username that you are an attorney. As an attorney, you are sworn to follow the guidelines of the law. However, you cannot make the law (unless you are also elected to serve your district as a lawmaker). The same holds true for the Church. The celebrant does not have the right to add something to the rubrics that does not exist. Not even the bishop can do that. If the bishop wants something added to the Mass, he needs to bring forth his proposal to his national episcopal conference. If the matter is brought up for a vote by 2/3 of the Latin Rite bishops, then it is sent to Rome for recognitio. Rome is the lawmaking body here. It is up to Rome to say yes or no.

What we have to go by are the rubrics listed in the Roman Missal itself and the supporting documentation from the GIRM and RS. Neither of them support your claims.

 

[Canto]

I asked a Canon Lawyer ,if the laity were permitted to speak after the Homily. He said they were. My Bishop stated they were permitted to talk after the Homily. Read the other posts and you will find support in my statement.
Before you take a authoritative position , please check your facts. When you originally
dismissed the Bishops statement that I posted ,without any proof other than your erroneous interpatition, I knew I had someone that would not listen to my posts. Thus the tone I have taken with you. Your point has been proven wrong. The laity are permitted to speak after the Homily, after Communion and at the announcements.

1. the GIRM says after the priest gives the homily there is silence and then the Creed. No mention of the laity speaking or singing Georgy Girl or doing cartwheels or playing bingo.
2. the GIRM says before the final blessing there may be BRIEF announcments.
3. RS says the laity should speak outside of Mass but if they are to speak it should be before the final blessing, no mention of them being allowed to speak after the homily - before the final blessing it clearly says.
4. the Code of Canon law admitts that in most cases it does not deal with liturgical law.

 

[Canto]

benedictgal;6698944:

The question asked is “Laity talk after the Homily.” There is much, much more to be addressed at mass than instructions, testimonys, and announcements. Sometimes the priest rely on help to fufill their message.

So what would a lay person speak about after the homily that wouldn’t encroach on the homily or be testimony or an announcemnet???

 

[Ockham]

To the best of my knowledge one bishop and a canon lawyer do not over-rule the Vatican. Such a notion is better suited for our protesting cousins. The keys to heaven were given to St. Peter and by extension his successors - not any middle manager with an agenda.

While true the GIRM doesn’t specifically forbid laity talks after the homily, the instructions state clearly what is supposed to happen immediately after: a moment of silence and then the Creed.

The GIRM doesn’t specifically forbid break dancing during the Consecration, but I’m pretty sure we aren’t supposed to do that either.

 

[diggerdomer]

No. Your Priest was well intentioned but ill informed. No person other than the Priest or Deacon can give a homily. No other person can give the homily or speak in place of or after, such. You are right. The person should have spoken after Father had given his blessing at the end of Mass or just before.

Someone speaking after the homily (not in replace of it) is not necessarily illicit. Our Bishop routinely (much to my personal dismay) has someone give the Bishop’s Appeal address during the homily. He mandates it.

 

[Newbie2]

I do not have my Roman Missal with me, but, the rubrics call for any announcements to take place after the prayer after Communion, before the final blessing. This talk should have taken place at that time, not after the homily. What makes this even worse was that this happened during Pentecost Sunday, a major Solemnity because it marks the Descent of the Holy Spirit and the birth of the Church, and the final day of the Easter Season. The president of the Catholic Radio station should have known better.

Why would it be worse during Pentecost than, say, Ordinary Time? If something is inappropriate or forbidden, it isn’t any more inappropriate or forbidden just because of which particular Sunday it happens.

 

[CatholicCajun]

Our Priests only allows this after Communion, right before the Final Blessing.

 

[diggerdomer]

My Bishop .

I doubt that will convince Ockham, whose opinions are not guided by the Bishops fundamentally.

 

[diggerdomer]

I’ve seen missionary priests who are annual guests in our parish ask for donations during a homily but never a lay person.

Usually though the homily by the priest should hone in on the message of the gospel or first and second reading.

Could such a monetary drive from lay people become too habitual during a homily is other question.

Personally; I don’t think it was prudent for a lay individual to give this message until the closing pray at Mass.

Such can easily detract from the spiritual message given at the homily.

I’ve experienced the same, e.g. regarding missionaries. Yet, it’s always (appropriately) not done in place of the homily, though it may immediately follow the homily.

 

[diggerdomer]

No. The only time that such statements should be made is after the post-Communion prayer. The documents clearly state this.

Well if the documents clearly state this then my bishop routinely violates them by having his Bishop’s appeal presentation take place following the homily.

Can you let me know which exact documents he’s violating, so I can bring it to his attention? Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

To the best of my knowledge one bishop and a canon lawyer do not over-rule the Vatican. Such a notion is better suited for our protesting cousins. The keys to heaven were given to St. Peter and by extension his successors - not any middle manager with an agenda.

While true the GIRM doesn’t specifically forbid laity talks after the homily, the instructions state clearly what is supposed to happen immediately after: a moment of silence and then the Creed.

The GIRM doesn’t specifically forbid break dancing during the Consecration, but I’m pretty sure we aren’t supposed to do that either.

Since when are you worried about overruling the Vatican? The Vatican approves and authoritatively issues/teaches the GIRM, yet you regularly disagree with the GIRM.

 

[pjMerluza]

i’m only asking cause i recently returned home from college where there were plenty of liturgical abuses (i brought it up with the priest, lovely man, respected my opinion, brought up his side of the case, i’ll continue the debate next semester) and then the parish that i always considered traditional (orthodox, conservative, what word am i looking for?) did something that i thought was against the rules, just confused me a bit. I’m basing this on GIRM 24 and GIRM 66, 66 no laity can give a homily, and 24 no ADDING or REMOVING a part of the liturgy. To me a laity talk seems to be adding onto the liturgy.

also i’ve had a bishop give a pre-recorded homily during the annual bishop’s appeal, but i’ve always thought this was just because it would be impossible for him to speak at all the churches for all the masses.

also thanks for everyone posting!

 

[Canto]

Well if the documents clearly state this then my bishop routinely violates them by having his Bishop’s appeal presentation take place following the homily.

Can you let me know which exact documents he’s violating, so I can bring it to his attention? Thanks.

The GIRM says that after the homily there is silence then the Creed. No mention of someone speaking after the homily, no mention of it as an option, or an option if the Bishop wants.

The GIRM says announcements, brief announcements that is, if necessary are before the final blessing.

RS says “If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a **layperson **in a Church concerning the Christian life, it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. Nevertheless, **for serious reasons **it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion.”

After the prayer after Communion says Redemptionis Sacramentum, not after the homily.

 

[diggerdomer]

The GIRM says that after the homily there is silence then the Creed. No mention of someone speaking after the homily, no mention of it as an option, or an option if the Bishop wants.

The GIRM says announcements, brief announcements that is, if necessary are before the final blessing.

RS says “If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a **layperson **in a Church concerning the Christian life, it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. Nevertheless, **for serious reasons **it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion.”

After the prayer after Communion says Redemptionis Sacramentum, not after the homily.

Thanks. I’ll pass this on to our diocese so our Bishop can be better educated.

 

[Canto]

Thanks. I’ll pass this on to our diocese so our Bishop can be better educated.

It’s important that priests and bishops have read the norms and clarifications laid out in the GIRM and RS and follow them carefully, to rid the Mass or liturgical abuses, no matter how small. If we let the small things pass, then the bigger things might begin to look smaller.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

As I understand it, the question was not can a layperson preach a homily by can a lay person speak after the homily. Clearly the General Instruction does not permit a lay person to preach. However there is more, I a lay person is to speak, that talking must avoid the appearance of a homily (even if the priest has already preached one.) A simple asking for money would be fine (although I question the placing of such a request after the homily), but an extended talk, even for a pious and worthy cause, is not permitted (within the mass). The proper place for lay people to speak is (as has been noted) after the communion prayer. More extended talks can be given after mass or before mass begins.

God Bless.