Laity

[grace88]

Can a lay brother who was in a secular institute later join his order at the monastery ??

 

[LoyalViews]

If ones calling is to become a Monk yes. Do you want to become a Monk, Brother?

 

[grace88]

If ones calling is to become a Monk yes. Do you want to become a Monk, Brother?

I want to be a friar to be more precise but i dont want to go to the monastery directly:blush:

 

[Ocarm]

I want to be a friar to be more precise but i dont want to go to the monastery directly:blush:

Um, the terminology may be getting a little confused here. Without wishing to sound too pedantic (perish the thought!) and just in case there are any misunderstandings -

Friars live in a priory, or more simply, a ‘house’. Monks live in a monastery. The mendicant life of friars and the monastic life of monks are not the same.

Equally, friars can also be lay brothers - I’m both a friar and a lay brother, for instance - and only cease to be a lay brother if they leave the institute or are ordained as a priest or deacon. I’m going to assume that your reference to lay brothers in the OP means members of an associated secular institute like a third order, right?

So there are two distinctions here, that of clerical and lay (that is, ordained and non-ordained people); and religious and secular (that is, people who have taken solemn vows and live in community, and people who haven’t and don’t).

All of the faithful must be either one or the other of the first pairing, and one or the other of the second pairing - so they can be: a lay religious; a lay secular; an ordained religious; or an ordained secular. The majority of the faithful are lay seculars (and that includes members of third orders, because they do not take solemn vows); parish priests and permanent deacons are usually ordained seculars; and religious men and women are lay religious unless in the case of men, they are also ordained, in which case they are (obviously enough) an ordained religious. Clear? I hope so.

I’m going to assume that you were asking if a third order member can later become a vowed religious. The answer is, yes, they can, but because third order membership is considered to be a serious step and a vocation in and of itself, it should not be treated lightly as a stepping stone to something else.

And perhaps you and everyone readiing the thread knew all that already, in which case I’ve wasted everyone’s time.

If so, I’ll offer it up.

 

[FCEGM]

. . .

I’m going to assume that you were asking if a third order member can later become a vowed religious. The answer is, yes, they can, but because third order membership is considered to be a serious step and a vocation in and of itself, it should not be treated lightly as a stepping stone to something else.

Thank you for making this most important point, Br. Mike.

 

[grace88]

Um, the terminology may be getting a little confused here. Without wishing to sound too pedantic (perish the thought!) and just in case there are any misunderstandings -

Friars live in a priory, or more simply, a ‘house’. Monks live in a monastery. The mendicant life of friars and the monastic life of monks are not the same.

Equally, friars can also be lay brothers - I’m both a friar and a lay brother, for instance - and only cease to be a lay brother if they leave the institute or are ordained as a priest or deacon. I’m going to assume that your reference to lay brothers in the OP means members of an associated secular institute like a third order, right?

So there are two distinctions here, that of clerical and lay (that is, ordained and non-ordained people); and religious and secular (that is, people who have taken solemn vows and live in community, and people who haven’t and don’t).

All of the faithful must be either one or the other of the first pairing, and one or the other of the second pairing - so they can be: a lay religious; a lay secular; an ordained religious; or an ordained secular. The majority of the faithful are lay seculars (and that includes members of third orders, because they do not take solemn vows); parish priests and permanent deacons are usually ordained seculars; and religious men and women are lay religious unless in the case of men, they are also ordained, in which case they are (obviously enough) an ordained religious. Clear? I hope so.

I’m going to assume that you were asking if a third order member can later become a vowed religious. The answer is, yes, they can, but because third order membership is considered to be a serious step and a vocation in and of itself, it should not be treated lightly as a stepping stone to something else.

And perhaps you and everyone readiing the thread knew all that already, in which case I’ve wasted everyone’s time.

If so, I’ll offer it up.

Thank you this was very helpful and enlightening! yes it is the third order i was referring too. so does this mean one can be third order and still take a solemn vow and still live in the world??

 

[puzzleannie]

Thank you this was very helpful and enlightening! yes it is the third order i was referring too. so does this mean one can be third order and still take a solemn vow and still live in the world??

which third order? Franciscans TOR, Dominican Tertiaries? inquire from that order or institute or with your vocations director

 

[Ocarm]

Thank you this was very helpful and enlightening! yes it is the third order i was referring too. so does this mean one can be third order and still take a solemn vow and still live in the world??

The nature of the life undertaken by third order members or tertiaries varies from institute to institute, but to be a member of a third order usually means that one professes poverty, chastity and obedience as appropriate to your state in life (chastity for a married person is expressed differently to chastity for a single person, for example, and poverty for someone with 6 children is handled differently to someone living alone). Typically the member lives and works in the world like other secular people, but occasionally secular members live together in community and/or carry out full-time apostolates.

It is normal for the person possessing authority in a province or the order (that is, the provincial or general or theor equivalents) to be able to dispense a member from vows (if any have been taken) to allow for a transfer to religious formation as a member of the first or second orders or equivalents. Such a move is completely dependent on proper discernment and subject to successful application for membership in the other branch of the institute.

What I’ve said so far are generalisations only, and the actual nuts and bolts of the case will depend on the constitutions of the religious institute in question. I should add that the discernment of where one belongs within a religious family - full-time religious, tertiary, associated member, interested observer, whatever - is entirely secondary to the call to live out the charism of that family. In other words, find the charism to which God is calling you first, and then in discussion with a spiritual director from within that family, discern how best to live it out.

Best wishes and my prayers for you.

 

[grace88]

The nature of the life undertaken by third order members or tertiaries varies from institute to institute, but to be a member of a third order usually means that one professes poverty, chastity and obedience as appropriate to your state in life (chastity for a married person is expressed differently to chastity for a single person, for example, and poverty for someone with 6 children is handled differently to someone living alone). Typically the member lives and works in the world like other secular people, but occasionally secular members live together in community and/or carry out full-time apostolates.

It is normal for the person possessing authority in a province or the order (that is, the provincial or general or theor equivalents) to be able to dispense a member from vows (if any have been taken) to allow for a transfer to religious formation as a member of the first or second orders or equivalents. Such a move is completely dependent on proper discernment and subject to successful application for membership in the other branch of the institute.

What I’ve said so far are generalisations only, and the actual nuts and bolts of the case will depend on the constitutions of the religious institute in question. I should add that the discernment of where one belongs within a religious family - full-time religious, tertiary, associated member, interested observer, whatever - is entirely secondary to the call to live out the charism of that family. In other words, find the charism to which God is calling you first, and then in discussion with a spiritual director from within that family, discern how best to live it out.

Best wishes and my prayers for you.

thank you very much for your help