Lamb of God who take away the sin or sins?

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bob

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Why is it that during mass we say in the:

Gloria
Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world: have mercy on us

but in the
Angus Dei
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world.

and
Gospel of St. John (1:29)
“Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the…”

Is it sin or sins?

Did Christ die for our sin (Original Sin) or all subsequent sins?
 
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beng:
He died for ALL sins.

His sacrifice is so satisfying God that all the sins is like a drop of water in the vast ocean. The Doctrine of Atonement
If so,
Is St. John wrong?
Should the Gloria be amended?
Are we all saved and not just redeemed?

The Doctrine of Atonement in the Catholic Encyclopaedia also says,
“At first we have the central fact made known in the Apostolic preaching, that mankind was fallen and was raised up and redeemed from sin by the blood of Christ.”

and
“By whatever names or figures it may be described, that work is the reversal of the Fall, the blotting out of sin,…”

“Sin” here is also singular and mentioned twice.
 
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bob:
If so,
Is St. John wrong?
Should the Gloria be amended?
Are we all saved and not just redeemed?
Prolly just lingo stuff. I think “sin” can be representing all sins. Putting them into one group. Contact a lingo expert.
 
Interestingly, the Latin in both places is “peccata mundi”, so it looks like the translation ought to be plural (second declension neuter, accusative–if I remember my Latin correctly).
 
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Melissa:
Interestingly, the Latin in both places is “peccata mundi”, so it looks like the translation ought to be plural (second declension neuter, accusative–if I remember my Latin correctly).
Good job Melissa! I’m not sure why the Gloria in English managed to be “sin” when in the traditional latin mass it was , as you pointed out, “peccata mundi” in both instances…
 
Maybe this will be corrected with the new translation of the Mass.
 
I don’t know why, either–the only thing I can think of is poetic license. When I hear ‘sin of the world’ I get an image of this big giant ball that contains all types of sins in one big, ugly seething mass.

(BTW, I got the Latin from our missal, which is NO, but still provides Latin side-by-side for the Mass. Just don’t ask how many years it’s been since my high school Latin studies.)
 
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Melissa:
Interestingly, the Latin in both places is “peccata mundi”, so it looks like the translation ought to be plural (second declension neuter, accusative–if I remember my Latin correctly).
Thanks Melisa. What about the Latin (Septuagint) version in St. John’s Gospel? Perhaps someone out there knows the Greek translation of St. John’s?

:confused:
 
Found the Vulgate on-line: “ecce agnus Dei qui tollit peccatum mundi”. Peccatum is singular accusative.

As far as Greek, I’m sure that’s available on-line if you hunt it down–however, it is all Greek to me 😛 .
 
I can see it both ways . . . .

We have all committed many sins, so the Lord takes all of them away.

Likewise, sin in general is an ugly horror, the “big orange ball” that needs to be stopped.

David
 
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Melissa:
Found the Vulgate on-line: “ecce agnus Dei qui tollit peccatum mundi”. Peccatum is singular accusative.

As far as Greek, I’m sure that’s available on-line if you hunt it down–however, it is all Greek to me 😛 .
In John 1:29 the Greek has sin, singular, hamartian. Plural would have been hamartias.

BTW, Melissa, cool rhyme in your sig.

DaveBj
 
I have been wondering about another question about the use of number. When St. Augustine wrote

inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in te

why was the singular cor used?

My interpretation is that he essentially is saying that the human heart (particularly referring to the seat of emotions, thought, and judgement) is restless until it rests in God. I.e. he refers to the generic human heart, not the multiple hearts of individuals.
 
We now have both the Vulgate (Latin) and Greek versions of “sin” in St. John’s Gospel in the singular form.

As the bible is an inspired book, it has to take precedence over the Latin and English versions of the mass.

Also considering that the Doctrine of Atonement (earlier in the thread) also has “sin” in the singular.

What now is the implication of “sin” over “sins”?

I am not quite convinced over the collective noun (or great ball) version of “sin”.

:confused:
 
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