Lamb of God wording

[jmjconder]

**I had a theology professor say that the “Lamb of God…” cannot be changed unless it is sung more than three times.

Example: “Bread of Life” and “Prince of Peace” - can only be added when sung more than three times. I have looked for the citing of this and cannot find any.

If this is true - why have additional versions been inserted in the song books. **

 

[YoungTradCath]

Um. The Order of Mass can’t be changed. The only addition that can be made to the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) is that the line, “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us,” can be sung more than two times, as necessary, before the last line, “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace,” is sung. But it must be sung at least twice.

I’m not sure at all what you mean by “Bread of Life” and “Prince of Peace.”

 

[Phemie]

Um. The Order of Mass can’t be changed. The only addition that can be made to the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) is that the line, “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us,” can be sung more than two times, as necessary, before the last line, “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace,” is sung. But it must be sung at least twice.

I’m not sure at all what you mean by “Bread of Life” and “Prince of Peace.”

Do you mean to tell us that you are the one person on this planet who never had to sit through the “Lamb of God”??Mass of Creation

 

[929dad]

I’ve never heard that particular take on it, but here’s where things get confusing.

The Missal seems pretty clear that the only trope should be “Lamb of God.” But, in a document on the liturgy from the USCCB, we read that other Christological tropes are permitted. I don’t have either of those documents in front of me, but they do exist.

From my perspective as a composer, using “Lamb of God” as the only trope makes the music easier to write and to sing.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Do you mean to tell us that you are the one person on this planet who never had to sit through the Mass of Creation “Lamb of God”??

That… was absolutely, horrifically, vomit-worthy. I can honestly attest that I have never had to sit through something like that. Perhaps my experience is a ray of hope?

That is a supreme liturgical abuse and the anathema hammer needs to rain down upon it.

 

[Phemie]

That… was absolutely, horrifically, vomit-worthy. I can honestly attest that I have never had to sit through something like that. Perhaps my experience is a ray of hope?

That is a supreme liturgical abuse and the anathema hammer needs to rain down upon it.

He’s updated it for the new translation. I’ve just listened to the demo on Youtube and there are no tropes and it sticks to the text of the Ordinary. Without “Jesus” as the first word, the tropes wouldn’t really make sense. anyway.

 

[jmjconder]

Do you mean to tell us that you are the one person on this planet who never had to sit through the Mass of Creation “Lamb of God”??

According to my theology professor this version is acceptable since it has four verses. I am asking about those that only sing three verses.

 

[Phemie]

According to my theology professor this version is acceptable since it has four verses. I am asking about those that only sing three verses.

They happened to sing 4 verses in that parish for that Mass, but there is no such distinction made in the hymnals and many parishes only sing the litany 3 times and use a different description of Jesus each time.

The only document that allows tropes at the Lamb of God is a USCCB document “Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship” which, as I understand, doesn’t have force of law because the bishops only approved it when it was agreed not to submit it to Rome for approval.

 

[Philotheatoo]

Let’s humbly save our insults for the evil that deserve them.

 

[catholictiger]

from the GIRM

1. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for those found in the Order of Mass, for example, at the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God).

 

[jps23430]

That… was absolutely, horrifically, vomit-worthy. I can honestly attest that I have never had to sit through something like that. Perhaps my experience is a ray of hope?

That is a supreme liturgical abuse and the anathema hammer needs to rain down upon it.

I have been in many parishes in my life, and I have heard some version of this way more times than the proper version. I agree, it shouldn’t be changed but me thinks you overreact a bit to this.

 

[Usige]

I’ve never seen anything in the GIRM or the Order of Mass allowing it. The approved Order of Mass that was published after “Sing to the Lord” doesn’t seem to include the approval to use the “litany” form so I assume it isn’t allowed any more.

1. Meanwhile the following is sung or said:

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant us peace.

Or:

The invocation may even be repeated several times if the fraction is prolonged. Only the final time, however, is grant us peace said.

 

[promethius]

I have been in many parishes in my life, and I have heard some version of this way more times than the proper version. I agree, it shouldn’t be changed but me thinks you overreact a bit to this.

It’s alright, he’s a fairly new catholic. I had his same sort of fire for a while, and I think a lot of converts go through that growth phase.

 

[PacoG]

Can you still change the tropes to “grant them rest” in funeral Masses like they do in the EF? Is there any provision for it in the OF?

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them eternal rest.

 

[Phemie]

Can you still change the tropes to “grant them rest” in funeral Masses like they do in the EF? Is there any provision for it in the OF?

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them eternal rest.

I’ve never seen it and there seems to be no provision for it in the GIRM.

 

[jps23430]

It’s alright, he’s a fairly new catholic. I had his same sort of fire for a while, and I think a lot of converts go through that growth phase.

I think its great that he’s passionate, I wish more cradle catholics were, but when passion begats anger… its too much.

anyway, I found this which is pertaining to this thread and thought i would share.
adoremus.org/1202AgnusDei.html

 

[YoungTradCath]

I have been in many parishes in my life, and I have heard some version of this way more times than the proper version. I agree, it shouldn’t be changed but me thinks you overreact a bit to this.

Hmm. I don’t think I overreact. It’s been my pleasureful experience that where one abuse is present, so are many others.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Can you still change the tropes to “grant them rest” in funeral Masses like they do in the EF? Is there any provision for it in the OF?

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them rest.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world,
grant them eternal rest.

If you can get hold of a copy of the entire English missal, you could check in the section about masses for the dead. I do know that the way you have it phrased, albeit in Latin, is correct for EF missas pro defunctis.

 

[jps23430]

I honestly think this will be a moot point in a couple weeks. I doubt we’ll see these tropes used with the improved translation of the mass

 

[jmjconder]

I honestly think this will be a moot point in a couple weeks. I doubt we’ll see these tropes used with the improved translation of the mass

**What have you read that gives you this reassurance? Please let me know. **