Lamb of God

[Bananaslugmom]

Blessings and peace! I am hoping to find some answer to this question.

I grew up in the Catholic Church and my whole life (42 years) I have always heard, said and/or sung the following for the Lamb of God before communion:

Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

In the last few years, I have noticed that the *have mercy *portion, is repeated as many as five times, prior to saying grant us peace. Its unnerving to me and seems that our choral director is trying to fill space rather than following what I know to be the traditional mass.

What does the church teach about this norm? I would like to have some knowledge before I approach our pastor.

Thank you!

 

[Phemie]

The “Lamb of God” litany accompanies the fraction rite and should last as long as that rite takes.

If the parish only uses a 2 1/4" Host the rite takes about 10 seconds and all you sing is “Lamb of God…have mercy on us” twice and “…grant us peace” once.

If the parish uses large concelebration Hosts or baked loaves the rite can take 2 or 3 minutes and you keep repeating “Lamb of God…have mercy on us” as often as necessary to get through the rite and finish with “Lamb of God…grant us peace”.

GIRM #83

 

[Digitonomy]

Also, “grant us peace” need not be said only once; in some compositions the “verse” for that part of the song include two or more repetitions of “grant us peace.” The key thing is that “grant us peace” is the conclusion of the Agnus, so in most if not all cases it would be inappropriate to sing “have mercy on us” after having once sung “grant us peace.”

 

[Bananaslugmom]

Thank you.

 

[GemmaRose]

Also, in some parishes where the Tabernacle is not in the traditional position but off to some side altar (or beyond ), the Lamb of God may be extended as you describe while the ciborium(s) is/are removed from the Tabernacle.

*Please don’t go complaining to the pastor about the choral director (unless there’s an obvious, egregious, * abuse) !

Have you ever been a choral director? Do you have any idea what choral directors have to go through??

You have to please Pastor A, Father B, and Father C who is the moderator of music ministries.

Pastor A does not want the Lamb of God sung until he has returned to the altar after retrieving the Blessed Sacrament from the Tabernacle, and, Latin only, please.

Father B doesn’t ever want the Lamb of God sung, and if the choral director mistakenly sings it at “his” Mass, he or she will earn a loud chewing-out in public from Father B.

Father C wants the Lamb of God to extend through the fraction rite and until all EMHCs have retrieved the Blessed Sacrament from the Tabernacle.

The 9:00 A.M. Mass uses the Lamb of God version that the Sister Mary Sunshine has taught the Children’s Choir.

The 10:30 A.M. Mass is the bi-lingual Mass and the Lamb of God will be sung in Spanish/Italian/Chinese/Polish/Korean and/or Filipino.

The 12:00 Noon Mass is the Choir Mass, and for the 5:30 P.M. Mass’ Lamb of God, Father C wants a nice lively one to go with the tamborines.

The real miracle is that more Choral Directors don’t end up in the Psych Ward. :juggle: :banghead: :hypno:

May the singing of the Lamb of God be your greatest care in the world. God bless.

 

[japhy]

Also, “grant us peace” need not be said only once; in some compositions the “verse” for that part of the song include two or more repetitions of “grant us peace.” The key thing is that “grant us peace” is the conclusion of the Agnus, so in most if not all cases it would be inappropriate to sing “have mercy on us” after having once sung “grant us peace.”

That’s contrary to the received tradition pertaining to the Agnus Dei. Since the proper (Latin) words of the Agnus Dei are simply “Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.” it seems reasonable to infer that the “miserere nobis” “verse” is the one repeated ad libitum.

 

[puzzleannie]

In the last few years, I have noticed that the *have mercy *portion, is repeated as many as five times, prior to saying grant us peace. Its unnerving to me and seems that our choral director is trying to fill space rather than following what I know to be the traditional mass.

!

that is exactly what he is doing, and he is following the norms. the antiphons should continue until the fraction rite is complete.

and what Gemma said, heaven help her!

 

[Digitonomy]

Digitonomy:

Also, “grant us peace” need not be said only once; in some compositions the “verse” for that part of the song may include two or more repetitions of “grant us peace.”

That’s contrary to the received tradition pertaining to the Agnus Dei. Since the proper (Latin) words of the Agnus Dei are simply “Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.” it seems reasonable to infer that the “miserere nobis” “verse” is the one repeated ad libitum.

When was this tradition received? This setting by Tomas Luis de Victoria in 1583 has each choral voice singing “Dona nobis pacem” three times successively.

This isn’t to say repeat the “grant us peace” verse instead of the “have mercy on us” verse, just that when you get to the “grant us peace” verse, some phrasing may be repetitive.

 

[ASD]

What GemmaRose said, heaven help us.

I think GemmaRose’s post should be made sticky at the top of this forum. It’s a good stepping off point for any discussion of current state of affairs.

Of course, one assumes that people will be able to see that there’s nothing inevitable or necessary about the situation at all.

ASD​

Sacrosanctum Concilium

 

[japhy]

When was this tradition received? This setting by Tomas Luis de Victoria in 1583 has each choral voice singing “Dona nobis pacem” three times successively.

This isn’t to say repeat the “grant us peace” verse instead of the “have mercy on us” verse, just that when you get to the “grant us peace” verse, some phrasing may be repetitive.

I apologize, Digitonomy. I misread what you posted the first time. I’ll pay closer attention next time!

 

[bpbasilphx]

Choral settings of the Mass from Palestrina (and earlier) to today have ALWAYS repeated words and phrases to allow for musical development.

Whether this is a good idea is another issue.