Language at Byzantine Church?

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MrsE1022

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Hey everybody!

I got married recently and my husband and I have noticed a beautiful Byzantine Catholic church almost right next to our house. In fact we pass it on our way to (Latin Rite) Mass every Sunday, as they are even on the same street. My newly Catholic spouse asked me why don’t we go there if its closer isn’t that our parish? And I said good question! I explained just a tiny bit about why Latin Rite and Byzantine are different but that we are actually the same church. We decided that we would LOVE to go to Mass there one Sunday but I realized I have ZERO idea what language would be spoken, or if it might be in English since its in the US? 🤷

Thank!!!😃
 
Typically most Byzantine parishes in the United States will have at least half of the Divine Liturgy in English. Other languages really depend on the national origin of the church. For example, the Ruthenians (most commonly referred to simply as “Byzantine Catholics,” although there are other non-Ruthenian Churches of the Byzantine Catholic tradition) may throw in some Old Church Slavonic here and there. The Ukrainians may also throw in some Old Church Slavonic, but would be more likely to use a good deal of Ukrainian. The Melkites, who originated in the Middle East, use mostly English, but will also throw in generous amounts of Greek and Arabic. The Romanians will use English along with elements of Romanian and sometimes Greek. Parishes in areas with a large Hispanic population may also use some Spanish in their Liturgies.

My guess is that the parish nearest you is a Ruthenian parish. In that case the Liturgy will be predominantly, if not exclusively, in English.
 
Well put, my brother!

MrsE - what you will hopefully find irrespective is a welcoming, close-knit community of believers that will be glad to see you. I’d be very surprised otherwise.

While each Eastern Catholic church tends to have an ethnic identity attached, there are many who through marriage or love of the Eastern tradition have come into the fold, so you won’t be alone. Especially at Easter time (Pascha), it amazes me how the families that have come into the church end up enthusiastically adopting our ethnically and culturally influenced customs and traditions. For example, on Easter, we bless traditional foods (the kind of stuff that is avoided during Great Lent), and each have symbolic meaning. It never fails that some of the newer members of the flock end up coming with the most traditional baskets for blessing (including my wife, raised Methodist, but admittedly with Slavic heritage).

http://www.ukrainian-n-things.com/basketphotos/Easter-B.B.1LRG.jpg

Please let us know about your first visit and the church affiliation.

Christ is risen!
 
Depends which Church it is. Ukrainian Churches tend to be more ethnic and would probably be in Ukrainian, or have either a bilingual Liturgy or 2 Liturgies, one in English and one in Ukrainian.

The best way to know really is to ask, or check to see if they have a website.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Depends which Church it is. Ukrainian Churches tend to be more ethnic and would probably be in Ukrainian, or have either a bilingual Liturgy or 2 Liturgies, one in English and one in Ukrainian.

The best way to know really is to ask, or check to see if they have a website.
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Which of the Eastern Churches do not really have some underlying ethnic identity?
 
If it says “Byzantine Catholic” on the sign, it is most likely Ruthenian-Byzantine Catholic, in which case the Liturgy will probably be in English, possibly with a little Church Slavonic thrown in here and there.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Typically most Byzantine parishes in the United States will have at least half of the Divine Liturgy in English. Other languages really depend on the national origin of the church. For example, the Ruthenians (most commonly referred to simply as “Byzantine Catholics,” although there are other non-Ruthenian Churches of the Byzantine Catholic tradition) may throw in some Old Church Slavonic here and there. The Ukrainians may also throw in some Old Church Slavonic, but would be more likely to use a good deal of Ukrainian. The Melkites, who originated in the Middle East, use mostly English, but will also throw in generous amounts of Greek and Arabic. The Romanians will use English along with elements of Romanian and sometimes Greek. Parishes in areas with a large Hispanic population may also use some Spanish in their Liturgies.

My guess is that the parish nearest you is a Ruthenian parish. In that case the Liturgy will be predominantly, if not exclusively, in English.
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So, A byzantine church is in line with Rome, or are they more with the Eastern orthodox…I know I probably need some history lesson, but I have a friend who is a priest. His spiritual adviser is of Eastern rite, and he is getting for lack of a better word, the 'ability" to celebrate both a Latin rite, and a byzantine right…am I confused, or is that something that happens. Is there a special behavior I should follow? I know some churches cross themselves differently than Latin right churches, but I learned that one over 15 years ago. I see the byzantine church has vespers on Saturday evenings, and then ONE Mass on Sunday morning. I have been to Chaldean churches, and LOVED them! but I know they are in line with Rome (actually had gone to the Mass prior to a Fr (at the time) Coropi talk, which I loved so much…what a shame there I guess, still don’t understand what his situation was after warning everyone about the devil acting on our church…seems too convenient, but not on topic…any answers about the Byzantines would be so appreciated!
 
onthisrock said:
So, A byzantine church is in line with Rome, or are they more with the Eastern orthodox…I know I probably need some history lesson, but I have a friend who is a priest. His spiritual adviser is of Eastern rite, and he is getting for lack of a better word, the 'ability" to celebrate both a Latin rite, and a byzantine right…am I confused, or is that something that happens. Is there a special behavior I should follow? I know some churches cross themselves differently than Latin right churches, but I learned that one over 15 years ago. I see the byzantine church has vespers on Saturday evenings, and then ONE Mass on Sunday morning. I have been to Chaldean churches, and LOVED them! but I know they are in line with Rome (actually had gone to the Mass prior to a Fr (at the time) Coropi talk, which I loved so much…what a shame there I guess, still don’t understand what his situation was after warning everyone about the devil acting on our church…seems too convenient, but not on topic…any answers about the Byzantines would be so appreciated!
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Eastern Catholic Churches that celebrate the Byzantine Rite are, indeed, in communion with Rome. That being said, however, they are often more sympathetic to and have more in common with their Orthodox Mother Churches. A very short history lesson would be simply to say that all but one of the Eastern Catholic Churches that utilize the Byzantine Rites were at one point Orthodox (in the sense of not being in communion with Rome). At various times and for various reasons parts of those Orthodox Churches decided to re-establish communion with Rome. That’s why there is a Russian Catholic Church with an Orthodox counterpart (i.e. Mother Church), a Ukrainian Catholic Church with an Orthodox counterpart (actually several Orthodox counterparts, but that’s another matter), a Melkite Catholic Church with an Orthodox counterpart, etc., etc., etc.

Ideally Eastern Catholics are to be “Orthodox in communion with Rome” in the sense that they maintain their authentic Eastern liturgies, practices, spirituality, theology, canon law, etc., while at the same time being in communion with Rome.

Your priest-friend is working on obtaining what they call “bi-ritual faculties,” meaning he can celebrate either the Mass or the Divine Liturgy. Interestingly, Archbishop Fulton Sheen had bi-ritual in the Melkite tradition, and there are photographs of him floating around somewhere dressed completely in Byzantine bishop’s garb. It’s pretty sweet.

Crossing yourself will be from right to left instead of left to right, and you will hold your thumb, index, and middle fingers together, while at the same time placing your ring and pinky fingers in your palm. This is symbolic of the Trinity in unity and the two natures of Christ.

I agree about Fr. Corapi. I grew up listening to him, and even heard him live on one occasion. I was very saddened by the events that took place with him, and I know my sainted mother would be turning over in her grave. I only hope and pray that his sudden disappearance from the internet means that he has submitted in obedience to his superior. Speculation any further would mean gossip and potentially detraction and slander, something I don’t want to happen. 😛
 
onthisrock said:
So, A byzantine church is in line with Rome, or are they more with the Eastern orthodox…I know I probably need some history lesson, but I have a friend who is a priest. His spiritual adviser is of Eastern rite, and he is getting for lack of a better word, the 'ability" to celebrate both a Latin rite, and a byzantine right…am I confused, or is that something that happens. Is there a special behavior I should follow? I know some churches cross themselves differently than Latin right churches, but I learned that one over 15 years ago. I see the byzantine church has vespers on Saturday evenings, and then ONE Mass on Sunday morning. I have been to Chaldean churches, and LOVED them! but I know they are in line with Rome (actually had gone to the Mass prior to a Fr (at the time) Coropi talk, which I loved so much…what a shame there I guess, still don’t understand what his situation was after warning everyone about the devil acting on our church…seems too convenient, but not on topic…any answers about the Byzantines would be so appreciated!
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There are some very nice Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic parishes in southern CA, so its no surprise that you have some exposure already. And as you are already familiar with the Chaldean Catholic Church, I’ll try to give you some background at high level.

The Catholic Church is a communion of 23 Churches, with the Latin or Roman Catholic Church being the largest. The Papacy of course resides in the Latin Church, but all Churches in the Catholic Communion regard the Pope as the Spiritual head of the Church, successor of St. Peter.

Both the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church and the Chaldean Catholic Church are two of the Churches in communion with Rome. They are indeed Catholic, but have their own traditions and liturgical expressions. Whereas the Latin Church primarily follows the Roman Rite in liturgical worship, the Ruthenian Catholic Church (as well as several other self governing, or sui juris Churches in the Catholic Communion) follow the Byzantine Rite. The Chaldean Catholic Church follows the Assyrian Rite in its liturgical worship.

The Chaldean Catholic Church, as you may know, had its origins in the Middle East, in the Mesopotamian region of modern day Iraq, Iran and Syria. The Byzantine-Ruthenian Church has Eastern European roots, from the Carpathian Mountain region stretching from Hungary to the Ukraine.

Since you’ve been to a Chaldean church, I’m guessing you are near San Diego. There is also a Byzantine-Ruthenian church in town - Holy Angels (link to website, which has some background information on the parish and the Byzantine-Ruthenian Church).
 
Also, on some of your questions:

Yes, there are priests who have bi-ritual faculties. They can celebrate the liturgy in their own rite (the rite followed by the Church in which they were ordained) and another rite. There are a good (and growing) number of Latin Catholic priests that have bi-ritual faculties allowing them to celebrate the Divine Liturgy (our Mass) in the Byzantine-Ruthenian church (or others, as may be the case).

The Eastern Catholic Churches are very orthodox in tradition and liturgical form, and often have “counterpart” Eastern Orthodox churches. The main difference, of course, is that the Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with Rome.

We joke that our Latin Catholic cousins cross themselves backwards. That is because the manner in which we cross ourselves (right to left) is in fact the way all Christians crossed themselves in the early Church. We also hold our hand differently. There is a decent Wikipedia article with photos that can probably give you a better idea.

Vespers on Saturday evening and one Divine Liturgy on Sunday is the most correct order of Liturgical worship, although some parishes deviate out of necessity. Vespers is actually the start of the liturgical day, so Vespers on Saturday will include mention of feasts or commemorations of the Sunday to immediately follow. In both Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism, an altar is supposed to be used only once per day.

I’m glad you enjoyed the Chaldean Church, as did I when I lived in metro Detroit for a few years and was blessed by having a Chaldean parish right down the street from my own Byzatine-Ruthenian church. They are wonderful people with a magnificent tradition and expression of faith.

We pray for Fr. Corapi (I miss his EWTN series on the CCC …), whatever may have happened.
 
Brother Phillip - I hadn’t noticed that you already covered this base! Glad we at least gave consistent info 😉

Peace in the risen Christ!
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
That is one of my all time favorite photographs! 😃
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Indeed, and leave it to the clever folks of St. Elias Church (UGCC) in Brampton, Ontario, Canada! That picture was posted on their parish blog.

BTW - there is also a full length version out there:

 
ByzCathCantor said:
Which of the Eastern Churches do not really have some underlying ethnic identity?
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Well, true. Of course some have begun to use English exclusively, either as a conscious decision by the priest, the community, or just out of necessity because they have started to take on more non-ethnic parish members.

Isn’t the Ruthenian Church in the US less ethnic? Aren’t they more like the Catholic equivalent of the OCA nowadays?
 
ConstantineTG said:
By the way, “Servant of God” in the Eastern Rites refer to every faithful male 😉
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I am indeed aware, and we would normally not capitalize the “s” for that usage.

Due respect given here to Archbishop Sheen, in light of the progress of his cause for canonization.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
I am indeed aware, and we would normally not capitalize the “s” for that usage.

Due respect given here to Archbishop Sheen, in light of the progress of his cause for canonization.
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I just made mention of that because he is shown in Eastern vestments and then given the title.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Isn’t the Ruthenian Church in the US less ethnic? Aren’t they more like the Catholic equivalent of the OCA nowadays?
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I don’t know if it is significantly less ethnic than others (except perhaps the UGCC with which I am familiar and relate with often), but would acknowledge that the Ruthenian Church has gone out of its way to be inclusive and open. Many members came to the Church through marriage or by personal choice, drawn to the tradition. But most members of the Ruthenian Church I know, “cradle” and convert alike, tend to embrace all aspects of the tradition, liturgical and cultural. The baskets brought to be blessed at Pascha were proof positive once again (including the one prepared lovingly by my wife, raised Methodist). In this regard, the ethnic character of the Church is preserved out of love and respect instead of mere identity.

We had a Slavic Dinner just before Great Lent. All who served the guests were dressed in rather authentic ethnic apparel, representative of that found in the entire stretch of the Carpathian Mountains. My parish priest, himself a convert, commented to me how funny it was that most of them had not a drop of Eastern European blood in them.

That said, does this church sound like it has an ethnic identity?

Peace in the risen Lord!
 
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