Lap Band Surgery and Sterilization

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Help me understand something I’ve been wondering about. Sterilization is against natural law because it frustrates the natural purpose of the reproductive organs and destroys the procreative nature of the sex act. Now even a device that was only intended to slightly decrease the function of the reproductive organs by, say, 80% would also be intrinsically disordered. So why is lap band surgery, which decreases the function of the digestive system, permitted to treat obesity? It seeks to separate the nutritive and pleasurable aspects of eating. It frustrates the natural purpose of the digestive system and limits the nutritive nature of eating. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Help me understand something I’ve been wondering about. Sterilization is against natural law because it frustrates the natural purpose of the reproductive organs and destroys the procreative nature of the sex act. Now even a device that was only intended to slightly decrease the function of the reproductive organs by, say, 80% would also be intrinsically disordered. So why is lap band surgery, which decreases the function of the digestive system, permitted to treat obesity? It seeks to separate the nutritive and pleasurable aspects of eating. It frustrates the natural purpose of the digestive system and limits the nutritive nature of eating. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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When there is a disorder of the digestive system, or the “system” in general, it is permissible to address it. Overeating is a disorder, which may be psycological or physiological, and this is a way to address it. Overeating leads to other physiological disorders.

In effect, it is a treatment for a disorder. One must be careful, however, not to look to such surgery as an “easy way out” or a first-choice treatment. Overeating can be a serious health threat, and for some this IS the best treatement, but attempts at moderation in eating, etc. should be attempted first.

Perhaps a poor choice of words, but such surgery should not be a quick-fix for the sin of gluttony, in those cases where it applies.
 
Newbie2 said:
When there is a disorder of the digestive system, or the “system” in general, it is permissible to address it. Overeating is a disorder, which may be psycological or physiological, and this is a way to address it. Overeating leads to other physiological disorders.

In effect, it is a treatment for a disorder. One must be careful, however, not to look to such surgery as an “easy way out” or a first-choice treatment. Overeating can be a serious health threat, and for some this IS the best treatement, but attempts at moderation in eating, etc. should be attempted first.

Perhaps a poor choice of words, but such surgery should not be a quick-fix for the sin of gluttony, in those cases where it applies.
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Thank you for the answer, but the thing is that there is no disorder of the digestive system for people who get bariatric surgery. It is a case of a disordered desire to eat and a desire to shirk the natural consequences. There might be psychological or physiological disorders that cause them to choose to overeat but their organs are just fine and don’t need treatment.

With sterilization you can’t rely on the contraceptive effect of any procedure for medical treatment. If the sterilization is simply an unintended consequence then it is allowed. So the intended end of the surgery can’t be to contracept. Wouldn’t the same thing apply in the case of bariatric surgery? The end of the surgery can’t be to frustrate the natural purpose of an organ.
 
In order to even qualify for lap band surgery patients need to undergo psychological therapy, prove that they have failed with diet and exercise, have a BMI over 45 and have another health issue like hypertension, high cholesterol, Sleep Apnea etc… Basically what I am saying is that patients need to do a lot more to prove that they have been working on their weight issues without success. Patients who are looking for lap band surgery are usually wanting a life change as well, which includes learning better eating habits. I don’t think that getting surgery, typically, is just so they can continue on their gluttonous ways, what would be the point then? they would continue to be fat and that would negate the whole surgery.
 
Mamanurse said:
In order to even qualify for lap band surgery patients need to undergo psychological therapy, prove that they have failed with diet and exercise, have a BMI over 45 and have another health issue like hypertension, high cholesterol, Sleep Apnea etc… Basically what I am saying is that patients need to do a lot more to prove that they have been working on their weight issues without success. Patients who are looking for lap band surgery are usually wanting a life change as well, which includes learning better eating habits. I don’t think that getting surgery, typically, is just so they can continue on their gluttonous ways, what would be the point then? they would continue to be fat and that would negate the whole surgery.
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I think you misunderstand. I mean no disrespect to anyone who needs the surgery and I know how difficult and dangerous getting bariatric surgery can be. Sterilization isn’t exactly a walk in the park either and people who receive the surgery often do so because of what they see as a genuine medical need. My question is,

Frustrate or limit the natural purpose of the reproductive system = bad

Frustrate or limit the natural purpose of the digestive system = good

Why?
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Help me understand something I’ve been wondering about. Sterilization is against natural law because it frustrates the natural purpose of the reproductive organs and destroys the procreative nature of the sex act. Now even a device that was only intended to slightly decrease the function of the reproductive organs by, say, 80% would also be intrinsically disordered. So why is lap band surgery, which decreases the function of the digestive system, permitted to treat obesity? It seeks to separate the nutritive and pleasurable aspects of eating. It frustrates the natural purpose of the digestive system and limits the nutritive nature of eating. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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lap band surgery corrects a medical condition, and it does not effect or frustrate the intrinsic meaning of marriage
it is against the rules of the forum to give medical advice, and it should encompass in that rule a ban on making judgements of patients on a topic of which the poster is ignorant. Bariatric surgery is not a treatment for gluttony.
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
As earlier written,it is against the rules to give medical advices,I guess even if you are a M.D.
This operation can in now way be seen in the same ligth as op’s for not beeing able to be pregnant or make your wife pregnant. This is done for a good reason,and may save someones life,and to save someones life and do it so that it is not against Gods will,can never be wrong. All ansvers to questions like theese is free to read in the Holy Bible or Catechism.
 
Asking if a particular medical procedure is moral is not asking for medical advice. If it were all topics that deal with birth control, sterilization, IVF ect… would also be banned.

Again a I know that bariatric surgery is a legitimate treatment for obesity and people who get it genuinely need it for their health. I know it isn’t a decision that is taken lightly as simply a way to be gluttonous and not gain weight. I know the surgery is allowed but I want to know why. I am not trying to sound judgmental.

People might have a legitimate medical reason to avoid another pregnancy, but sterilization is still never allowed. The only thing to do is abstain from sex.

Why isn’t the only treatment for obesity abstaining from overeating?
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Thank you for the answer, but the thing is that there is no disorder of the digestive system for people who get bariatric surgery.
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Well, it is in a sense…and that is that it is being overfed.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
People might have a legitimate medical reason to avoid another pregnancy, but sterilization is still never allowed. The only thing to do is abstain from sex.

Why isn’t the only treatment for obesity abstaining from overeating?
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One difference is that contraception allows the person to enjoy sex without the consequences, whereas the lap band surgery helps the person abstain from overeating.

The sexual analogue of lap band surgery would be a pill that removes the desire or ability to have sex, but doesn’t affect the fertility of sexual acts. I don’t know what the moral status of this would be.

The overeating analogue of contraception would be some kind of surgical alteration of the stomach that allows the person to continue to overeat and nonetheless still lose weight. For example, if a route were added from the stomach directly to the rear end that bypassed the digestive process, so that the person only digested 20% of what they swallowed. I don’t know what the moral status of this would be either.
 
puzzleannie said:
Bariatric surgery is not a treatment for gluttony.
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Just as sterilization is not a treatment for hypersexuality. I suspect the OP is just trying to figure out why the Catholic Church has such a hang-up/obsession when it comes to sex, that doesn’t extend to other areas where “natural law” is violated.
 
From what I’ve seen, a LOT more can go wrong, surgicial mishap wise, with a lap band then with a sterilization. People requiring a lap band have all sorts of co-morbidities and to put someone with a BMI of at least 45 under a general is dangerous and risky. Vasectomies can be done under locals of varying degrees and even a tube tying, under a general, is a lot easier to tolerate then lap banding.

Some people reacha point where their weight is so large that they are no longer able to physically exercise enough to loose the weight, and some are at a point where the only way to loose weight is to starve themselves. While I have mixed views on lap banding, part of me thinks it is a lazy way out, the other part of me knows that some people are in dire straits and do require it.

Sterilization is an offence to marriage and an offence against the person’s dignity. It’s aim is to prevent life, to denounce it, whereas a lap band is designed to uphold a person’s dignity, and it welcomes and promotes life!

But FYI, a person with a lap band who is not mentally ready for it, they’ll get pretty sick pretty fast if they bowl down to McD’s after the op to get a super duper meal deal with 20 hamburgers or something.
 
As a Catholic who has had Lapband surgery…I will tell you that the complcations are way less severe than that of gastric by pass. I am 60 lbs. lighter and couldn’t be happier. It takes a year to go through all the testing…especially the psychological.

There is no comparison to sterilization and baratric surgery. The Church is very clear on sterilization. However,…if someone chose to get sterilized…it is no one on this boards business.
 
Gastric surgery does not stop the digestive process. It seeks to control it.

Sterilization stops the reproductive process.

If you stop the digestive process, the patient dies.

If you stop the reproductive process, no new life is possible, and if enough people do it, the replacement rate becomes insufficient to compensate for natural death, and the human race dies.

It’s that simple.

And it is happening today, in many Western societies, not enough babies are born to maintain the population. Immigration is necessary to sustain the population.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Help me understand something I’ve been wondering about. Sterilization is against natural law because it frustrates the natural purpose of the reproductive organs and destroys the procreative nature of the sex act. Now even a device that was only intended to slightly decrease the function of the reproductive organs by, say, 80% would also be intrinsically disordered. So why is lap band surgery, which decreases the function of the digestive system, permitted to treat obesity? It seeks to separate the nutritive and pleasurable aspects of eating. It frustrates the natural purpose of the digestive system and limits the nutritive nature of eating. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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Sterilization IS against the natural law but that isn’t the main reason it is sinful according to Church teaching.

Sterilization separates the unitive and procreative aspects of the marital act. That’s the main reason sterilization (and artificial birth control methods) are prohibited.

The second reason that applies directly to sterilization is that it is mutilation of a healthy body part to the point of rendering it useless.

Lapband surgery does none of these things. It has no effect on the marital act or any other sacramental act between two people. Nor it is mutilation; it is reversible and only changes the functionality of the digestive system. It does not eliminate any function of the system but sterilization eliminates the main function of the sexual organ.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Asking if a particular medical procedure is moral is not asking for medical advice. If it were all topics that deal with birth control, sterilization, IVF ect… would also be banned.
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making a global pronouncement that bariatric surgery is solely a treatment for gluttony is practicing medicine without a license and is also lying.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Help me understand something I’ve been wondering about. Sterilization is against natural law because it frustrates the natural purpose of the reproductive organs and destroys the procreative nature of the sex act. Now even a device that was only intended to slightly decrease the function of the reproductive organs by, say, 80% would also be intrinsically disordered. So why is lap band surgery, which decreases the function of the digestive system, permitted to treat obesity? It seeks to separate the nutritive and pleasurable aspects of eating. It frustrates the natural purpose of the digestive system and limits the nutritive nature of eating. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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It is not for you to know this now, but if you have surgery on your stomach then it only affects you as an individual. Your reproductive system is shared with your husband and your children. Other individuals are produced by your reproductive system so you can harm others by damaging it.
 
puzzleannie said:
making a global pronouncement that bariatric surgery is solely a treatment for gluttony is practicing medicine without a license and is also lying.
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Snot what I said at all. The final cause of a penis is to deposit sperm in a vagaina, and also to urinate. The final cause of a stomach is to digest our food. Cutting or obstructing one vas deferens, and cutting fertility in half, would be contrary to the final cause. Putting a band around the stomach and cutting its capacity in half would likewise be contrary to the final cause. One is a moral evil and one is neutral. Why? Both the penis and the stomach are impaired but still able to accomplish their final cause.
 
Just_Lurking said:
One difference is that contraception allows the person to enjoy sex without the consequences, whereas the lap band surgery helps the person abstain from overeating.

The sexual analogue of lap band surgery would be a pill that removes the desire or ability to have sex, but doesn’t affect the fertility of sexual acts. I don’t know what the moral status of this would be.

The overeating analogue of contraception would be some kind of surgical alteration of the stomach that allows the person to continue to overeat and nonetheless still lose weight. For example, if a route were added from the stomach directly to the rear end that bypassed the digestive process, so that the person only digested 20% of what they swallowed. I don’t know what the moral status of this would be either.
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That makes sense. If there were a pill or surgery that allowed you to eat as much as you like and not ever gain weight it would likely be seen as perverse.
 
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