Lapsed Catholic Seeking Input

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Mooncake

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My apologies in-advance for this lengthy post…

I am a 28 year old husband and father. My wife is a wonderful woman and an atheist, my son is less than two months old.

I was born and raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic school, went to mass every week as a teenager. However, as I went through high school, I grew unsatisfied with my faith.

After confirmation, this separation manifested into a decade-long journey away from Catholicism. There were many factors that contributed to this end. Growing up in the Boston Archdiocese in the early '00s, the abuse scandal and the horrifically bureaucratic cover-up were omnipresent. Simultaneously, my developing personal views on many issues seemed to contrast sharply with those of the Church (in particular, I saw the Church eschewing issues of social justice for other more headline-grabbing topics as a major concern).

My freshman year of college I met my future wife. In short time we knew we were in love and spent the next seven years engaged. We celebrated our three-year wedding anniversary a week after my son was born.

In that time, I’ve never stopped considering myself a Catholic despite having failed to attend services in a decade. I’ve questioned my faith deeply, I’ve questioned the existence of God, I’ve explored agnosticism but when it comes down to it, I still feel RC to my core. It’s taken me years, but I believe I’m ready to try again. I believe that’s God’s intent for me.

Yet, despite my desire to return to the Church, I’m not certain of this path because:
  • I do not feel any less dedicated to political/social views that many would consider antithetical to life as a Catholic (I firmly support LGBT rights, no prayer in public schools and sex education beyond ‘abstinence only’, among others).
  • I am completely committed to sharing the joys and responsibilities of parenthood with my wife - including decisions of faith. While she has never suggested that raising our children Catholic is in any way abhorrent to her sensibilities, I do not doubt that she will also educate them on her own beliefs.
As a result of the two aforementioned issues, I’m deferential to those who find my desire to return an insult. I respect the faith greatly and simply wish to know if my situation is tenable or not. If you feel that my participation would denigrate the meaningfulness of your beliefs, I understand. I know many would instantly label me a CINO or worse but I can’t help feeling the way that I do.
So, my questions are: Will my opinions and commitment to my wife create hurdles too difficult to consider this? Is returning to the Church (at this time) a folly given my current state? If you believe returning to the faith is in my (and my family’s) best interests, how would you go about getting it underway?

Thanks in-advance and God Bless.
 
Mooncake said:
As a result of the two aforementioned issues, I’m deferential to those who find my desire to return an insult. I respect the faith greatly and simply wish to know if my situation is tenable or not. If you feel that my participation would denigrate the meaningfulness of your beliefs, I understand. I know many would instantly label me a CINO or worse but I can’t help feeling the way that I do.
So, my questions are: Will my opinions and commitment to my wife create hurdles too difficult to consider this? Is returning to the Church (at this time) a folly given my current state? If you believe returning to the faith is in my (and my family’s) best interests, how would you go about getting it underway?

Thanks in-advance and God Bless.
Click to expand...
you won’t know until you try. try tackling only one thing at a time. read what the church teaches and why. I had many of the same ideas you did until I dug deep. When I found the basis for many of the church’s teachings I was stunned, not only at the holiness of it but the logic of it too.

the question you have to ask is what is in the best interest of your family and yourself? Remember, we are only here on earth for a short time and we are to use that time to know, love, and serve God.

We can do that our way or his way. Which do you think best shows our love and service? Choosing his way was my choice. I trust that Jesus didn’t waste his 3 years on earth and taught his apostles what they needed to know to help all of us to carry out our mission here on earth. I trust that the apostles passed on this information fully and truthfully to each generation up to the present day. I went looking for that truth and found it in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church founded by Christ.

God’s grace can open anyone’s eyes to truth. So seek him out with an open mind and heart and he will make smooth your way to him. Take a leap of faith!
 
Welcome to CAF!

It’s great that you are feeling the pull to return. 👍

I think that the main problem for many people is reconciling secular ideologies we are being fed with our faith. This is a huge stumbling block for so many. It took me a decade (my 20s, no surprise I guess) to figure how to get out of this muddle. The difficult thing to accept is that the two belief systems can’t be reconciled, and that as Catholics we should trust the church to be right about these issues. What I suggest to you is this: don’t say that the church is wrong and that the secular world is right. Be open minded in the sense that maybe, just maybe, the church is right about what it teaches about human sexuality and morals. Saying: “God, I know the church is wrong and I can’t in good conscience be a part of it” is very different from “God, I’m seriously struggling with this teaching and I find it hard to accept that what I believe about X is wrong. Please help me out.”

You should also read up about what the church teaches on the above matters. You may feel Catholic and have got a solid Catholic education, but maybe your knowledge and understanding need a little brushing up and a new, more mature perspective on things.

Another thing you could do is find a priest with whom you can talk and explain your situation. If your marriage is valid, nothing stops you from going to confession. That is always a good start.

I hope this has been of some help. God bless you on your journey.
 
I would recommend understanding fully what The Church teaches. No offense but often cradle Catholics don’t actually understand as they either did not receive proper catechesis or it was when they were very young and don’t remember. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) is the best resource. In addition, I would definitely find a local priest and schedule a time to talk with him. Possibly consider going to RCIA as it is not only for those seeking to convert, but can and is a useful faith enrichment experience as it will teach all about the Catholic Church.

You should definitely consider returning but it has to feel right in your heart and in your head. Lastly, pray for The Holy Spirit to guide you! God bless you on your journey!
 
I apologize in advance for this rather lengthy post, but I hope that a more detailed response will be of greater value to you than a sound-bite.

First, and most importantly, you mention that you are concerned about being labeled a “CINO” or that some may look down upon you because you are struggling in this way. Any responses you receive of that fashion should be immediately disregarded as rubbish, spewed from ignorant, pom-pom waving propagandists. Sadly, no church is immune from this, although I do not believe you will receive very many (if any) such responses from this forum.

Your concerns are no less valid simply because you have questions and difficulties The classic definition of theology is “faith seeking understanding”, and because of our human frailties, this journey of faith does not come easy for most of us.

That being said, I liken your situation to that of my nephew, who just completed his Air Traffic Control training a few weeks ago; you are trying to safely guide dozens of “planes” (abuse scandal, homosexuality, church/state, sex ed, etc) to and from their destinations without crashing, and you have had only the bare basics of training (high school catechesis). In short, you are biting off more than a mouthful.

It may serve you well to start off with the absolute fundamental of the Catholic faith, which is no less than Jesus Christ himself. Our faith is not based solely upon a set of teachings and principles. If that were the case, what distinguishes Christianity from Bhuddism, which also espouses a version of teachings and principles? Neither is our faith based upon the noble actions of its members. If that were the case, every scoundrel could cancel out every saint.

Our faith is based on a person; the Divine Person of Jesus Christ, the only person who, as Archbishop Fulton Sheen famously said, was born for the SOLE PURPOSE OF DYING; a death which saves you and me and all of humanity from the ultimate consequence of our
disobedience (sin).

If a man’s faith is based on the actions (or inactions) of other men, that faith will be easily shaken and in a constant state of turmoil. If our faith is based on a firm foundation of discipleship in Jesus Christ, then it will withstand any storm, crisis or scandal. In today’s culture of “it’s all about me”, “it’s all about the Benjamins”, “it’s my way or the highway” and “it’s all relative”, it is that discipleship which serves as the windshield wiper as we drive our lives through the rain and mud.

You (and all of us) are on a journey seeking Truth; ultimate, objective truth, not warm & fuzzy “your truth, my truth, their truth”. But in order to ensure we are journeying on the right path, we need to ask ourselves some foundational questions:
  • am I seeking God and his Truth on my terms or His?
  • am I seeking to shape my life according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or am I looking for Him to shape Himself into my life?
  • are my thoughts, words and actions intended for God’s glory, or mine?
Discipleship in Jesus Christ makes those questions real no-brainers.

So how could someone begin that road of discipleship? The first step, as they say, is always the hardest, but once started, opens the door for everything else. PRAYER. If I can keep my prayer limited to asking the holy Spirit to open my heart, mind and soul to the voice of God and to help me close myself off from myself and my own flawed and selfish will, I find that my discipleship is strengthened.

God’s Word comes to us through earnest prayer and also through the Scriptures. This is why I’m going to recommend only 2 books, for starters. The first, naturally is the bible itself. The second is Fulton Sheen’s “Life of Christ”.

For the time being, put those questions of politics, social issues and scandals aside. While not irrelevant by any means, they can be deep distractions to our ultimate goal; establishing and deepening our RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS.

As you pray and read, you will undoubtedly have more questions. I would encourage you to seek out a wise priest to help guide you. Even though you have already been confirmed, try talking to your parish RCIA director, or an Adult Faith Formation coordinator. Their ministry is geared towards seekers such as yourself. They may be able to provide you with additional resources.

I would caution, however, to avoid individuals or groups whose professions of faith revolve around the word “change” (as in those who claim to want to “reform” the Church). More often than not, their concept of “change” involves mandating the Church to change to fit their views/lifestyles, as opposed to changing their hearts to accept God’s Will over their own.

We are all seekers of Truth; AUTHENTIC truth. And AUTHENTIC Catholicism is about deep discipleship in Jesus Christ. Everything else flows from there and from Him.

God Bless.
 
Home Sweet Rome by Scott and Kimberley Hahn brought me back into the Church after having been a practical atheist, then a believer in God, and then a “mere” or generic Christian… I read the book on Wednesday, went to Mass on Sunday and made an appointment for Confession after Mass (where I did NOT receive the Eucharist, since I recalled I needed to confess first).

This book may or may not answer your questions as the author converted from Protestantism and so a lot of his exlanations are based on the Bible, but otoh, his wife was not on the same page as he was so that part may be helpful also.

To me, doubts are normal and people have them. What counts is trust in the Church, but in order for a person to have trust in the Church, they need to understand the basis of our faith; it’s not just “blind faith” at all.

This is a post I wrote elsewhere. It was criticized by an erudite non-Catholic for using math as an analogy… so take the math as the natural knowledge version of God’s revealed knowledge (which concepts are explained in the quote).

It feels odd to quote myself but I don’t have time to re-write it all and it took a lot of work for me to *learn *it, or rather, for God to teach it to me 🙂 so I like to pass it along.

In the US it is very easy to miss this point because so much of our culture is Protestant or a reaction to Protestantism.

Many Protestant churches claim to be correct because they are based on the Bible. The Bible, however, was compiled by Catholics based on the teaching of Christ.

The train of reason for Catholics is this: Christ is God. God is all-good, and therefore unable to deceive. Thus, what Christ taught is the truth. (A side note: there is natural knowledge, which is what people can figure out for themselves, and then there is revealed knowledge, Revelation, which is what people can not figure out themselves, and which was taught to them by God. Here the knowledge I am talking about is revealed knowledge.)

Christ also promised that the Church as a whole would be protected by God in the person of the Holy Spirit from teaching error.

So Christ taught the Apostles, who taught their followers, who taught their followers, and so on. The body of knowledge which was not written in the Bible is known as Tradition.

From this body of knowledge, those entrusted with compiling the Bible, choosing which version of the Old Tetsament and the canon of the New, with the help of the Holy Spirit, were able to evaluate the writings they had on hand and deciding which were in line with what Christ had taught and which were not.

However, the writings from which the canon was put together were not comprehensive–they were just some of what Christ had taught. So we still have Tradition, and now we also have rhe Bible.

Remember I mentioned that Christ promised the protection of the Holy Spirit against the Chirch’s teaching error? That is the third source of Catholic Faith: the teaching authority given by Christ to the Church. This authority is called the Magisterium.

Everything the Chirch teaches must be uncontradicted by each of the three sources. The Chirch cannot suddenly teach something which is contradicted by Tradition; the Bible cannot be interpreted in a way which contradicts Tradition or the Magisterium, and so on.

As a result, the Catholic Faith consists of certain truths. They are like mathematical truths. I may say I totally don’t get the quadratic equation, but I need to believe that it is as true as 2+2=4. If A math professor were to decide to teach that 2+2=17, then other mathematicians would say that he was not teaching the truths of math, right? Would that be wrong of them? No.

In the same way, Catholics who believe something against the teaching of the Church are also going outside of truth. To teach, for example, the Christ was only a good man and not a Person of the Trinity, would violate Catholic teaching and put this person outside the realm of Catholic teaching just as much as the matatician who teaches that 2+2=17.

Thus, Catholicismis restrictive, but it is restrictive to the truth, just as math is restrictive to mathematical truths.

It is not wrong for an organization which has as its common organizing principles a set of beliefs to declare that there is something un-organizational about someone who believes something else; it is protective of the organization, which the organization has the right to do.

I also want to say something else, but must run for now… will return.
 
Mooncake said:
Yet, despite my desire to return to the Church, I’m not certain of this path because:
  • I do not feel any less dedicated to political/social views that many would consider antithetical to life as a Catholic (I firmly support LGBT rights, no prayer in public schools and sex education beyond ‘abstinence only’, among others).
  • I am completely committed to sharing the joys and responsibilities of parenthood with my wife - including decisions of faith. While she has never suggested that raising our children Catholic is in any way abhorrent to her sensibilities, I do not doubt that she will also educate them on her own beliefs.
As a result of the two aforementioned issues, I’m deferential to those who find my desire to return an insult. I respect the faith greatly and simply wish to know if my situation is tenable or not. If you feel that my participation would denigrate the meaningfulness of your beliefs, I understand. I know many would instantly label me a CINO or worse but I can’t help feeling the way that I do.
So, my questions are: Will my opinions and commitment to my wife create hurdles too difficult to consider this? Is returning to the Church (at this time) a folly given my current state? If you believe returning to the faith is in my (and my family’s) best interests, how would you go about getting it underway?

Thanks in-advance and God Bless.
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First, welcome home! The Catholic Church will always welcome you with open arms. 🙂

Now, to your questions/concerns:
  1. Is there any particular reason why you hold these beliefs? The Church doesn’t arbitrarily hold certain positions; there are very good reasons why she does. I encourage exploring more about why the Church believes what she does, including asking questions on this forum. 🙂
  2. I think once you understand the importance of Jesus Christ maybe raising your kids Catholic will make more sense. It would probably be good for you to start learning more about Catholicism (which you are already doing). It’s an all or nothing proposition and way of life, but don’t let that intimidate you. Christ loves you and is waiting for you to return. 🙂
 
Mooncake said:
My apologies in-advance for this lengthy post…

I am a 28 year old husband and father. My wife is a wonderful woman and an atheist, my son is less than two months old.

I was born and raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic school, went to mass every week as a teenager. However, as I went through high school, I grew unsatisfied with my faith.

After confirmation, this separation manifested into a decade-long journey away from Catholicism. There were many factors that contributed to this end. Growing up in the Boston Archdiocese in the early '00s, the abuse scandal and the horrifically bureaucratic cover-up were omnipresent. Simultaneously, my developing personal views on many issues seemed to contrast sharply with those of the Church (in particular, I saw the Church eschewing issues of social justice for other more headline-grabbing topics as a major concern).

My freshman year of college I met my future wife. In short time we knew we were in love and spent the next seven years engaged. We celebrated our three-year wedding anniversary a week after my son was born.

In that time, I’ve never stopped considering myself a Catholic despite having failed to attend services in a decade. I’ve questioned my faith deeply, I’ve questioned the existence of God, I’ve explored agnosticism but when it comes down to it, I still feel RC to my core. It’s taken me years, but I believe I’m ready to try again. I believe that’s God’s intent for me.

Yet, despite my desire to return to the Church, I’m not certain of this path because:
  • I do not feel any less dedicated to political/social views that many would consider antithetical to life as a Catholic (I firmly support LGBT rights, no prayer in public schools and sex education beyond ‘abstinence only’, among others).
  • I am completely committed to sharing the joys and responsibilities of parenthood with my wife - including decisions of faith. While she has never suggested that raising our children Catholic is in any way abhorrent to her sensibilities, I do not doubt that she will also educate them on her own beliefs.
As a result of the two aforementioned issues, I’m deferential to those who find my desire to return an insult. I respect the faith greatly and simply wish to know if my situation is tenable or not. If you feel that my participation would denigrate the meaningfulness of your beliefs, I understand. I know many would instantly label me a CINO or worse but I can’t help feeling the way that I do.
So, my questions are: Will my opinions and commitment to my wife create hurdles too difficult to consider this? Is returning to the Church (at this time) a folly given my current state? If you believe returning to the faith is in my (and my family’s) best interests, how would you go about getting it underway?

Thanks in-advance and God Bless.
Click to expand...
Of course you can still go to Church and take part in parish activities. But with those attitudes you may not be able to receive the sacraments. A Cathlic in good standing, one who is morally able to receive the sacraments, must believe and accept the entire gamut of Church teaching on morality and Doctrine. Perhaps you have allowed yourself to get a bit " indoctrinated ? " A good place to start would be to start reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We wish you well.

Linus2nd
 
The other thing I wanted to say is that there is a difference between a CINO and a Catholic with doubts and misunderstandings. To put is very simply, a CINO wants to change the Church to agree with him, and the latter is willing to change himself to agree with the Church.

St Thomas Aquinas puts it like this in Summa Theologica, II-II 5, Q3

On the contrary, Just as mortal sin is contrary to charity, so is disbelief in one article of faith contrary to faith. Now charity does not remain in a man after one mortal sin. Therefore neither does faith, after a man disbelieves one article.

I answer that, Neither living nor lifeless faith remains in a heretic who disbelieves one article of faith…

Now it is manifest that he who adheres to the teaching of the Church, as to an infallible rule, assents to whatever the Church teaches; otherwise, if, of the things taught by the Church, he holds what he chooses to hold, and rejects what he chooses to reject, he no longer adheres to the teaching of the Church as to an infallible rule, but to his own will. Hence it is evident that a heretic who obstinately disbelieves one article of faith, is not prepared to follow the teaching of the Church in all things; but if he is not obstinate, he is no longer in heresy but only in error. Therefore it is clear that such a heretic with regard to one article has no faith in the other articles, but only a kind of opinion in accordance with his own will.
 
Lots of people have been where you are. You can study about the teachings you don’t agree with. You might find out that some of the things you disagree with aren’t actual teachings of the Church. (ex. prayer in public school) You might also find that when you study the real teachings of the Church and why the Church teaches what she does, that your opinon is changed. I wouldn’t worry about being labeled anything. Everyone is on a journey spiritually. Probably most of the Catholics you know have doubted some Church teaching before or even currently. I think it’s a good idea to discuss what you find out with your wife. Pray and ask God to help you both to find the Truth.
 
  1. Define “LGBT rights”. There are many of those things that the Church supports, while others she cannot reconcile (like SSM).
  2. Define “sex-ed beyond abstinence”. Just prating about abstinence out of context doesn’t work, especially among teenagers. Me, I’m of the belief that talking about this should naturally come up in childhood, so that they are inoculated against the pressures of corporate culture when they become adolescents.
That said, assuming for the sake of argument that your definitions and those of the Church conflict at this time, and are struggling with the Church’s teachings thereby, I’d echo the call to look at what the Church teaches, and look at why. The Catechism is a good start, for example.

As to people calling you CINO, That term is often abused. It’s used to refer to people who were raised Catholic, but that don’t merely struggle with the doctrine, but reject it altogether. To them, they’re right, and nothing Holy Mother Church or anyone says is going to change their mind.
 
Mooncake said:
My apologies in-advance for this lengthy post…

I am a 28 year old husband and father. My wife is a wonderful woman and an atheist, my son is less than two months old.

I was born and raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic school, went to mass every week as a teenager. However, as I went through high school, I grew unsatisfied with my faith.

After confirmation, this separation manifested into a decade-long journey away from Catholicism. There were many factors that contributed to this end. Growing up in the Boston Archdiocese in the early '00s, the abuse scandal and the horrifically bureaucratic cover-up were omnipresent. Simultaneously, my developing personal views on many issues seemed to contrast sharply with those of the Church (in particular, I saw the Church eschewing issues of social justice for other more headline-grabbing topics as a major concern).

My freshman year of college I met my future wife. In short time we knew we were in love and spent the next seven years engaged. We celebrated our three-year wedding anniversary a week after my son was born.

In that time, I’ve never stopped considering myself a Catholic despite having failed to attend services in a decade. I’ve questioned my faith deeply, I’ve questioned the existence of God, I’ve explored agnosticism but when it comes down to it, I still feel RC to my core. It’s taken me years, but I believe I’m ready to try again. I believe that’s God’s intent for me.

Yet, despite my desire to return to the Church, I’m not certain of this path because:
  • I do not feel any less dedicated to political/social views that many would consider antithetical to life as a Catholic (I firmly support LGBT rights, no prayer in public schools and sex education beyond ‘abstinence only’, among others).
  • I am completely committed to sharing the joys and responsibilities of parenthood with my wife - including decisions of faith. While she has never suggested that raising our children Catholic is in any way abhorrent to her sensibilities, I do not doubt that she will also educate them on her own beliefs.
As a result of the two aforementioned issues, I’m deferential to those who find my desire to return an insult. I respect the faith greatly and simply wish to know if my situation is tenable or not. If you feel that my participation would denigrate the meaningfulness of your beliefs, I understand. I know many would instantly label me a CINO or worse but I can’t help feeling the way that I do.
So, my questions are: Will my opinions and commitment to my wife create hurdles too difficult to consider this? Is returning to the Church (at this time) a folly given my current state? If you believe returning to the faith is in my (and my family’s) best interests, how would you go about getting it underway?

Thanks in-advance and God Bless.
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit is calling you back to the Catholic Church. Welcome Home, we missed you! Try to get a copy of “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” and read up on what the Church actually teaches on social issues (you might be pleasantly surprised). Then call the local parish and make an appointment to speak with a priest about any issues or concerns you still have. Take things slowly and everything will work out. :rolleyes:
 
If you want a short cut thru all of this, get a miraculous medal, have it blessed, and wear it in Mary’s honor. Then each day just ask Mary to help you want to change. She won’t let you down.

She promised to those who wear her medal GREAT and ABUNDANT graces if you ask for them. She can get you around all of the seemingly difficult issues. She is your mother and good mothers always help their children. Get the medal and leave the worring up to her.

By the way, GREAT and ABUNDANT graces were Mary’s own words to St. Catherine Laboure. But ask her everyday for that great grace you need.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
Mooncake said:
Yet, despite my desire to return to the Church, I’m not certain of this path because:
  • I do not feel any less dedicated to political/social views that many would consider antithetical to life as a Catholic (I firmly support LGBT rights, no prayer in public schools and sex education beyond ‘abstinence only’, among others).
Click to expand...
I think it’s important to realise that the Catholic Church are the people that recognise the authority of the papacy and the Magisterium as being God given and enduring throughout all time. Catholics look to the Pope and the Church in the way children look to their parents. The family sustains its meaning in recognising the God given authority that parents have.

This family, the Church, recognises fundamentally the equality of all people and every persons right to respect inclusion and justness. The Church teaches the value of chastity in the sexual life of the person before marriage and the value of marriage as the creative union between a man and woman. Given those basic truths, the Church could not support same sex relationships or same sex marriage as holy, healthy or even benign. That would be like being the wellspring of fresh water in the village and saying it’s ok not to drink here if you don’t feel like it. You can just as well go drink from the stagnant pond or the sewage water channel. It’s all water right?

We have to trust the truths the Church upholds as being the guidance of the Holy Spirit especially in contrast to the selfishness and materialism that exist today. 1 Cor 13:12 reminds us “For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
 
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