Large chunks missing from Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter johnbres2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

johnbres2

Guest
Good morning, and the peace of Christ be with each of you. I am not very knowledgeable in the essential components of the Mass, but after yesterday’s Mass, I have some specific questions about what must be included, and what is optional.

Our postor conducted the Mass. There is no Act of Contrition prayer (“I confess to Almighty God…”), and there is no Profession of Faith (we never have this any more at our Church). When I combine this lack with the fact that our Pastor has entirely his own versions of the prayers of the Liturgy, I sometimes fo not feel I am even at a Catholic Mass. Are each of these required components of the Mass?
 
The creed is a must. The confetior should be recited but is often substituted with the Kyrie. Sunday Mass I believe the Kyrie is sufficient due to the Gloria being sung or recited.

I am not an expert on this but the Kyrie is often substituted at some daily Masses in the parish for the confetior as was the case this morning. At school Mass the confetior and the Kyrie are both said.

Yesterday at the Mass I attended the poor old priest forgot the Sign of the Cross.
How old is the priest. Is it possible that it is an oversite. Jot him a note asking him if the Creed was just forgotten?
First give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Yes, the Kyrie is a valid substitute for the “I confess to Almighty God…” An example is that it might start out “You were sent to heal the contrite, Lord have Mercy”, or other variations. That’s a prayer for forgiveness of sins.

The Creed is a must, but it’s not said on weekdays, nor is the Gloria (exception - feats I think, don’t have the GIRM handy). I assume you meant Sunday Mass, I don’t know what to say if there was no Creed…
 
40.png
awalt:
Yes, the Kyrie is a valid substitute for the “I confess to Almighty God…” An example is that it might start out “You were sent to heal the contrite, Lord have Mercy”, or other variations. That’s a prayer for forgiveness of sins.

A slight correction. The Kyrie is said after the Confetior. If the Confetior is not said, but one of the other options - an example of which you quoted above - is said, then the Kyrie is not said. The Kyrie alone may not be said. The Kyrie is simply “Kyrie Eleison, Criste Eleison, Kyrie Eleison” - this is not a valid substitute.

The Creed is a must, but it’s not said on weekdays, nor is the Gloria (exception - feats I think, don’t have the GIRM handy). I assume you meant Sunday Mass, I don’t know what to say if there was no Creed…
Click to expand...
The Creed is required at Sunday Mass, unless there are Baptisms, since we renew our Baptismal Promises then.
 
This is a particular issue I have encountered as well. Not only that, everytime I go to a different parish, it seems that things are different. Not only in the choice of the optional parts, but even in the form, and by that I mean subsituted or omitted from various parts.
 
johnbres2 said:
There is no Act of Contrition prayer (“I confess to Almighty God…”), and there is no Profession of Faith (we never have this any more at our Church). When I combine this lack with the fact that our Pastor has entirely his own versions of the prayers of the Liturgy, I sometimes fo not feel I am even at a Catholic Mass. Are each of these required components of the Mass?
Click to expand...
There are three forms the Penitential Rite can take:
  1. The Confiteor (“I confess to Almighty God…”) followed by the Kyrie
  2. A very-rarely employed dialogue (“Lord, we have sinned against you…”) followed by the Kyrie
  3. An embellished Kyrie (“Lord, you were sent to heal the contrite: Lord have mercy”, etc.) without the Kyrie after it
The Penitential Act can be omitted when Mass immediately follows another liturgical function (like the Liturgy of the Hours), but I would expect that is not what happened for you.

As for the Creed, it is to be prayed on all solemnities (Sundays are solemnities), unless there is some particular baptismal-type rite replacing it. Was there something done in place of the Creed?

The Penitential Act is required at Mass, and the Creed is required on Sundays (and certain other days). Mass is not invalid without them, but it is an illicit (unlawful/improper) celebration of the Mass by the priest. The integrity of the Mass suffers when they are omitted. You should try to ask your priest about his changes in a polite and charitable way.

If he is messing with the words of the Eucharistic Prayer, that is a much bigger concern.
 
there are also 4 Eucharistic prayers to choose from for Sunday, and more for other occasions, so unless you know them well enough to identify which is being used, it is best not to assume that what you heard is wrong. For you own spiritual health and peace of mind wait until you know beyond doubt that there is real abuse going on. The best way is to simply ASK the pastor about your concerns. that is your starting point even if you do have reason to protest.

are you also quite sure there are not prayers or rites for RCIA going on that abrogate the pentitential rite or creed at a particular Mass?
 
johnbres2 said:
Good morning, and the peace of Christ be with each of you. I am not very knowledgeable in the essential components of the Mass, but after yesterday’s Mass, I have some specific questions about what must be included, and what is optional.

Our postor conducted the Mass. There is no Act of Contrition prayer (“I confess to Almighty God…”), and there is no Profession of Faith (we never have this any more at our Church). When I combine this lack with the fact that our Pastor has entirely his own versions of the prayers of the Liturgy, I sometimes fo not feel I am even at a Catholic Mass. Are each of these required components of the Mass?
Click to expand...
To echo the last statement japhy made in his post:
If he is messing with the words of the Eucharistic Prayer, that is a much bigger concern
Click to expand...
that would be a huge concern.

Redemptionis Sacramentum makes it quite clear that:
51.] Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. "It is not to be tolerated that some Priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers"129 or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals.130
Click to expand...
Inasmuch as there are a plethora of Eucharistic Prayers, the actual words of the institution narrative (with some very slight variances) are virtually the same. However, there have been some lamentable instances (and, sadly, I have witnessed these) where the celebrant takes liberties with the wording.

Furthermore, concerning ad-libbing, the document further states that:
[59.] The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.
Click to expand...
I hope this helps.
 
johnbres2 said:
Good morning, and the peace of Christ be with each of you. I am not very knowledgeable in the essential components of the Mass, but after yesterday’s Mass, I have some specific questions about what must be included, and what is optional.

Our postor conducted the Mass. There is no Act of Contrition prayer (“I confess to Almighty God…”), and there is no Profession of Faith (we never have this any more at our Church). When I combine this lack with the fact that our Pastor has entirely his own versions of the prayers of the Liturgy, I sometimes fo not feel I am even at a Catholic Mass. Are each of these required components of the Mass?
Click to expand...
It would seem the OP was indeed referencing a weekday Mass, as this was posted on February 20, a Saturday, and speaks of “yesterday’s Mass.”
 
IrishAm said:
It would seem the OP was indeed referencing a weekday Mass, as this was posted on February 20, a Saturday, and speaks of “yesterday’s Mass.”
Click to expand...
However, inasmuch as this was a weekday Mass–you also might want to check the year in which the OP was written since it could have been a Sunday for that particular year), the f ad-libbing of the other prayers is a liturgical abuse, a serious one.

If you look at the thread, it dates back to February 2006. It’s over four years old.
 
My wife was at a mass with an elderly priest where he skipped the consecration. :eek:
 
awalt said:
Yes, the Kyrie is a valid substitute for the “I confess to Almighty God…” An example is that it might start out “You were sent to heal the contrite, Lord have Mercy”, or other variations. That’s a prayer for forgiveness of sins.

The Creed is a must, but it’s not said on weekdays, nor is the Gloria (exception - feats I think, don’t have the GIRM handy). I assume you meant Sunday Mass, I don’t know what to say if there was no Creed…
Click to expand...
I’m fairly sure that the Creed and the Gloria are both omitted on ferias. If the day is a feast of sufficient rank, or if certain votive Masses are celebrated, then the Gloria (and in some cases, the Creed) are said.

For example : on March 17, the feast of St Patrick, the Gloria is said, but not the Creed. Yet one week later, March 24, is the feast of St Gabriel, on which the Gloria and the Creed are both said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top