Last Tridentine Mass

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When was it in your parish? I heard the last Tridentine Mass at mine was in 1965.

How was the Mass in the mid to late 1960s? Maybe someone can fill me in here. From looking at old St. Joseph missals it apparently was similar to the Tridentine Mass but in English. One missal I have from 1967 still shows the Mass in Latin. From having talked to some older folks, the wreckovation movement was already in full swing by the late 1960s.
 
thealtonroute said:
When was it in your parish? I heard the last Tridentine Mass at mine was in 1965.

How was the Mass in the mid to late 1960s? Maybe someone can fill me in here. From looking at old St. Joseph missals it apparently was similar to the Tridentine Mass but in English. One missal I have from 1967 still shows the Mass in Latin. From having talked to some older folks, the wreckovation movement was already in full swing by the late 1960s.
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I came into the Church in 1995. I recall at that time when I was inquiring that the parish priest told about a parishioner who had died and requested a Traditional Latin Mass for his Requiem Mass, but it couldn’t be done, according to Father. But this parish, from which we have since moved held their First Traditional Mass within a month or two of the Motu Proprio of 2007. This was a young, traditional priest, who has been moved to an even bigger parish. But he left his good mark on the parish replacing the ugly, faceless statues with likelike images and with a big crucifix of Christ suffering instead of the Glorfied Christ on the Cross.

It takes longer to rebuild than to tear down…but things are turning around. It seems to me that Catholics are starting to realize that utopian revolutions in the Church had no more of a chance of spiritual prosperity than Stalin’s Five Year plans for material prosperity. Just as communism eventually became unbelievable, so it takes time for our own revolution to become incredible, and perhaps it never will to the true believers. The children of revolutionaries are usually much less ideological than those who fought for it.

Of course that is a mere natural analysis. We furthermore have promises that the Church will never fail…but I think the analogy is appropriate in the natural order.
 
I hadn’t yet been born when the new Mass was introduced, however I have been attending TLM since I was 16 and I’m 35 now. It has been wonderful to watch it spread. We used to pray and offer up small sacrifices for this grace and now we are seeing the fruits.

2 little stories to inspire and encourage those who face challenges regarding the EF:

In the 1990s I was discerning a vocation and became close to a group of monks. The monks ran a prestigious boys school and also a wealthy parish. The monks were secularly well educated, but a modernist, rebellious, elitist and entitled spirit prevailed there. They seemed to mock their devout congregants.

One night, after dinner, while I was visiting, somehow we got on the topic of the Latin Mass. The room roared with groans and sighs, almost hisses. They made fun of people who attended TLM and said with absolute assurance that the only people who went there were fringe wackos who were either mentally ill or so poorly educated they just gravitated toward that kind of shmaltz. I realized then, if joining meant hiding my faith and devotion, this was not the place for me.

Fast forward 10 years…

A couple years ago the monks founded an oratory exclusively for TLM and all rites performed in the EF. Apparently, too, in the monastery, reverence and beauty in their liturgies and vestments has been increasing.

benedictineoratory.com/

You have no idea–I NEVER thought I’d see the day. God’s ways are not our ways, so pray and be patient-and show charity.

The second story…

There was a beautiful church I visited in St Louis in 1993 called St Francis de Sales. A friend and I popped in and we spoke to the pastor who showed us around. We mentioned how beautiful it would be to have the Latin Mass there and he said, “It will never happen here!”

Oh really??? Never say never, padre!

See here:

institute-christ-king.org/stlouis/
 
HCC said:
I hadn’t yet been born when the new Mass was introduced, however I have been attending TLM since I was 16 and I’m 35 now. It has been wonderful to watch it spread. We used to pray and offer up small sacrifices for this grace and now we are seeing the fruits.

2 little stories to inspire and encourage those who face challenges regarding the EF:

In the 1990s I was discerning a vocation and became close to a group of monks. The monks ran a prestigious boys school and also a wealthy parish. The monks were secularly well educated, but a modernist, rebellious, elitist and entitled spirit prevailed there. They seemed to mock their devout congregants.

One night, after dinner, while I was visiting, somehow we got on the topic of the Latin Mass. The room roared with groans and sighs, almost hisses. They made fun of people who attended TLM and said with absolute assurance that the only people who went there were fringe wackos who were either mentally ill or so poorly educated they just gravitated toward that kind of shmaltz. I realized then, if joining meant hiding my faith and devotion, this was not the place for me.

Fast forward 10 years…

A couple years ago the monks founded an oratory exclusively for TLM and all rites performed in the EF. Apparently, too, in the monastery, reverence and beauty in their liturgies and vestments has been increasing.

benedictineoratory.com/

You have no idea–I NEVER thought I’d see the day. God’s ways are not our ways, so pray and be patient-and show charity.

The second story…

There was a beautiful church I visited in St Louis in 1993 called St Francis de Sales. A friend and I popped in and we spoke to the pastor who showed us around. We mentioned how beautiful it would be to have the Latin Mass there and he said, “It will never happen here!”

Oh really??? Never say never, padre!

See here:

institute-christ-king.org/stlouis/
Click to expand...
Back in the 1980s I remember that many saw the Latin Mass as something straight out of the dark ages. It’s amazing how much some of the V-II priests hate the Tridentine Mass. It almost borders on a pathological hatred. We’re trying to get our church as an exclusively Latin Mass church and save it from being closed and demolished. We have a great organ, high altar and close to two dozen statues.
 
Hello,

In answer to your question about the late 60’s, I went to a traditional Catholic boys High School back in the day (graduated 1969). Organized school masses were held on first Fridays, feast days important to the order running the school, and Days of Obligation. YES as I recall it was indeed the Latin mass in English.

At least at my school’s parish the priest still faced the alter, incense was still offered, kneelers, alter rails, communion kneeling on the tongue, etc… Basically no real change from the Latin mass of a few years earlier except the responses were in English. We still held a “high” mass 3-4 times a year, and it was still in Latin with Latin responses, and Gregorian Chants. At the time all of us were required to study Latin so we didn’t really think much of it . I recall just before I graduated the school allowed some nuns to try a “folk” mass. Guitars and flowers in the hair, the whole thing. I think most of my classmates and I laughed more than anything else. Little did we know that that was the future. Now 40+ years on I do miss it all in a very real way.

I am currently in Japan. Here there are NO Latin masses. Haven’t been any since the Church “returned” after the war. The last Latin liturgy was probably in the 1930"s. It is not authorized in this country, and I doubt any priests here have ever been taught how to do one, and have probably never even seen one let alone participate in or offer one… Actually the mass here is nothing even approximating a “traditional” liturgy. It has been “adopted” to the culture. Not quite “Protestant” but not exactly “Catholic” if you follow my meaning. I understand why, but it leaves me a bit “nostalgic” for the “old days”.

I believe that no “Asian” diocese “authorizes” Latin masses outside of the Philippines. Yes I know the Pope has allowed any priest to offer the mass in Latin, but frankly they have no idea how and can’t imagine why anyone might want one. My own priest is an old Irish missionary a few years older than me. He says that they still used Latin when he was in seminary, but totally believes that the Japanese liturgy is best for his flock, and I respect that.

Regards,
Bill Unland
 
All masses are in Latin. My church was started by fssp priests about 12 years ago.
I attend high mass on Sundays at 10:30 a.m. The gregorian chant is beautiful.
 
Did it ever occur to anyone that it took the NO to make people appreciate the Latin Mass? Before Vatican II all masses were in Latin. The same inattentive, bored people that now go to the NO went to the Latin mass. Bad priests as well as good priests said the Latin mass. The TLM is what it is today because of the NO.
 
Anrando said:
Hello,

In answer to your question about the late 60’s, I went to a traditional Catholic boys High School back in the day (graduated 1969). Organized school masses were held on first Fridays, feast days important to the order running the school, and Days of Obligation. YES as I recall it was indeed the Latin mass in English.

At least at my school’s parish the priest still faced the alter, incense was still offered, kneelers, alter rails, communion kneeling on the tongue, etc… Basically no real change from the Latin mass of a few years earlier except the responses were in English. We still held a “high” mass 3-4 times a year, and it was still in Latin with Latin responses, and Gregorian Chants. At the time all of us were required to study Latin so we didn’t really think much of it . I recall just before I graduated the school allowed some nuns to try a “folk” mass. Guitars and flowers in the hair, the whole thing. I think most of my classmates and I laughed more than anything else. Little did we know that that was the future. Now 40+ years on I do miss it all in a very real way.

I am currently in Japan. Here there are NO Latin masses. Haven’t been any since the Church “returned” after the war. The last Latin liturgy was probably in the 1930"s. It is not authorized in this country, and I doubt any priests here have ever been taught how to do one, and have probably never even seen one let alone participate in or offer one… Actually the mass here is nothing even approximating a “traditional” liturgy. It has been “adopted” to the culture. Not quite “Protestant” but not exactly “Catholic” if you follow my meaning. I understand why, but it leaves me a bit “nostalgic” for the “old days”.

I believe that no “Asian” diocese “authorizes” Latin masses outside of the Philippines. Yes I know the Pope has allowed any priest to offer the mass in Latin, but frankly they have no idea how and can’t imagine why anyone might want one. My own priest is an old Irish missionary a few years older than me. He says that they still used Latin when he was in seminary, but totally believes that the Japanese liturgy is best for his flock, and I respect that.

Regards,
Bill Unland
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Dear Bill,

There are Latin Masses in Japan. I recently read about a woman who goes to one in Oknowa. If there is one there, I’m sure there are others. Call your diocese for information or start one yourself.

TLM cannot be prohibited any longer based on a Motu Proprio by the Holy Father in 2007. You can read the full text here: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16summorumpontificum.htm

For information on how to get one in your parish, see here: unavoce.org/s-p-resources/requesting-tlm-post-sp/

Yes, the site is American, but the procedure is universal.

+God’s blessings to you!
 
pippin said:
Did it ever occur to anyone that it took the NO to make people appreciate the Latin Mass? Before Vatican II all masses were in Latin. The same inattentive, bored people that now go to the NO went to the Latin mass. Bad priests as well as good priests said the Latin mass. The TLM is what it is today because of the NO.
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Dear Pippin,

Yes, that has occurred to me. I have said to priests many times, perhaps the Church is getting the renewal that was never intended, but the Holy Spirit wanted.

Look how the Latin Mass is beginning to flourish. I know frat boys who dragged each other to a Latin Mass, in flip flops, polo shirts and shorts, just for kicks and came out wowed. Today they are married men, with big families and only attend TLM. Furious that they learned almost nothing about their Faith in Catholic schools.

Look at the orders getting vocations, they’re the traditional ones. Look at all the big, young families. New priests and orders of priests.

We do have much to be thankful for!
 
HCC said:
Dear Bill,

There are Latin Masses in Japan. I recently read about a woman who goes to one in Oknowa. If there is one there, I’m sure there are others. Call your diocese for information or start one yourself.

TLM cannot be prohibited any longer based on a Motu Proprio by the Holy Father in 2007. You can read the full text here: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16summorumpontificum.htm

For information on how to get one in your parish, see here: unavoce.org/s-p-resources/requesting-tlm-post-sp/

Yes, the site is American, but the procedure is universal.

+God’s blessings to you!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the kind reply. I would wager that there is a Latin Mass in Okinawa because of the large US presence there, possibly even an American priest. There are many military installations there. Okinawa is far away from Honshu, the main Island where I am, about 5 hours by plane I guess.

Japan is NOT a religious country, and the culture does not encourage religious worship of any type, let alone Christianity, save for funerals and weddings. I would guess that this is probably the LEAST religious people in the world actually. Most of the Catholics here are “Kyushu Catholics”, ie; the descendants of the original converts from St. Francis who went into hiding during the 4 hundred years or so when Catholicism was outlawed and was a capital offense. I am not entirely sure of the depth of faith or understanding of most members. It seems more of a cultural and family “tradition” rather than a theology to most, but I could be wrong. Latin to them is no different than English or French, just a foreign language without any particular meaning. I have recited a few prayers in Latin for some friends and quite frankly they just stare at me as if I were from a different planet. I explain the history and use but they see no relevance to themselves.I understand. My Latin is as foreign to them as their Japanese is to me. I do have a tendency to revert to the Latin Our Father and Hail Mary which has raised a few eyebrows in the flock, but I imagine they think I am praying in German!

The area I live in has 8 parishes and 5 priests, consequently there is not even Mass on a weekly basis at all the churches. At least once a month there is some kind of service that I can’t bring myself to attend where a nun gives a homely and the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers, all women, hand out pre-consecrated hosts.

I think any attempt to insinuate my “antique western” values into the system would not be appreciated. I am definitely the odd one out here, as are all foreigners actually. I have on the side commented to my priest that I thought his Latin was still pretty good, as he does chant some of the prayers in the “old manner” albeit in Japanese . He has made it very clear that THAT would never happen. He has been very kind in taking care of his only “gaijin” (foreigner) parishioner so I certainly don’t want to push the issue as he is clearly a NO guy. He has mentioned that Irish look at religion with the heart and Germans with the brain. I think he is telling me that we are different and to leave the Latin thing alone.

For the reasons listed I feel that trying to pursue my own wishes above those of the parish would be too selfish and arrogant and in humility I need to be happy that there is any parish here at all.

Thanks again,
Bill Unland
 
Anrando said:
Thanks for the kind reply. I would wager that there is a Latin Mass in Okinawa because of the large US presence there, possibly even an American priest. There are many military installations there. Okinawa is far away from Honshu, the main Island where I am, about 5 hours by plane I guess.

Japan is NOT a religious country, and the culture does not encourage religious worship of any type, let alone Christianity, save for funerals and weddings. I would guess that this is probably the LEAST religious people in the world actually. Most of the Catholics here are “Kyushu Catholics”, ie; the descendants of the original converts from St. Francis who went into hiding during the 4 hundred years or so when Catholicism was outlawed and was a capital offense. I am not entirely sure of the depth of faith or understanding of most members. It seems more of a cultural and family “tradition” rather than a theology to most, but I could be wrong. Latin to them is no different than English or French, just a foreign language without any particular meaning. I have recited a few prayers in Latin for some friends and quite frankly they just stare at me as if I were from a different planet. I explain the history and use but they see no relevance to themselves.I understand. My Latin is as foreign to them as their Japanese is to me. I do have a tendency to revert to the Latin Our Father and Hail Mary which has raised a few eyebrows in the flock, but I imagine they think I am praying in German!

The area I live in has 8 parishes and 5 priests, consequently there is not even Mass on a weekly basis at all the churches. At least once a month there is some kind of service that I can’t bring myself to attend where a nun gives a homely and the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers, all women, hand out pre-consecrated hosts.

I think any attempt to insinuate my “antique western” values into the system would not be appreciated. I am definitely the odd one out here, as are all foreigners actually. I have on the side commented to my priest that I thought his Latin was still pretty good, as he does chant some of the prayers in the “old manner” albeit in Japanese . He has made it very clear that THAT would never happen. He has been very kind in taking care of his only “gaijin” (foreigner) parishioner so I certainly don’t want to push the issue as he is clearly a NO guy. He has mentioned that Irish look at religion with the heart and Germans with the brain. I think he is telling me that we are different and to leave the Latin thing alone.

For the reasons listed I feel that trying to pursue my own wishes above those of the parish would be too selfish and arrogant and in humility I need to be happy that there is any parish here at all.

Thanks again,
Bill Unland
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From what I understand about the Japanese, they are very nationalistic. I couldn’t imagine them preferring anything else than their own language.
 
ConstantineTG said:
From what I understand about the Japanese, they are very nationalistic. I couldn’t imagine them preferring anything else than their own language.
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Japan is a difficult place to understand. They are NOT nationalistic nor patriotic in the classical sense. After the war they were taught NOT to be. They are however; VERY race conscious. They do in a very real way consider themselves different than everyone else, and in many ways “better”.

I used to teach young doctors medical English and the general feeling was “This is Japan, why do I need English?”. I think that the use of Japanese in the Church here is absolutely necessary to keep the flock together.

Regards,
Bill Unland
 
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