Late to Daily Mass: Do not Receive

[jpjd]

JPJD:
You said," Self-denial of the Eucharist is good penitential practice." What could you possibly mean by that.???

What I meant by that is, when you are not properly prepared and disposed to receive, instead of willfully receiving anyway, it would be a good penitential practice to refrain from receiving the Eucharist.

I think I have explained this matter quite thoroughly now. Please read the entire thread to understand all comments made.

If anyone still feels that you should receive regardless of how late you are, then I suggest you pray about it and discuss it with your priest.

 

[baltobetsy]

I read the entire thread. I keep coming back to how Our Lord desires us to receive Him in Holy Communion, as revealed to numerous saints, Therese of Lisieux and Faustina among them. There He is, desiring with all His Heart to give Himself to us, and because we didn’t hear the readings, we decline??? How does this so-called “penitential practice” bring us closer to Him? How does it satisfy His desire to be united with us?

And who’s to say that I am not prepared to receive? I may have been praying since the moment I got up, if it’s morning Mass I’m late to, or from the moment I left work if it’s evening. I may have read the readings in my missal already, knowing that I might not hear them at Mass. There is no obligation at all to attend any of daily Mass, so coming in late is not a matter of conscience.

As far as Communion of the sick goes, there is more than one option for Communion outside Mass, and not all include the Liturgy of the Word, so you cannot say that is required.

Are you going to say that a person who, for whatever reasons concerning a schedule, is not able to attend a full daily Mass, ever, should be denied the opportunity to receive Holy Communion if he can get there 15 minutes after Mass begins?

I’m going to go out on a limb here and make a generalization. I would say that people who make the effort to attend daily Mass, even if they cannot arrive at the beginning, are probably not slackers who can’t be bothered to be punctual, who should therefore be punished by not being allowed to receive the Eucharist. Going out on yet another limb, I’ll bet Our Lord is delighted to see everyone who gets there at all.

And how about an analogy on a limb…suppose you arrive at a family gathering an hour late, just as everyone is sitting down to dinner. Will you not further offend your family if you refuse to eat?
“My favorite meal that you made just for me - oh, no, I couldn’t possibly have any, since I missed the get-together before dinner.” Please.

Betsy

 

[Aramis]

And how about an analogy on a limb…suppose you arrive at a family gathering an hour late, just as everyone is sitting down to dinner. Will you not further offend your family if you refuse to eat?
“My favorite meal that you made just for me - oh, no, I couldn’t possibly have any, since I missed the get-together before dinner.” Please.

Betsy

Part of the meal is the Wisdom imparted in the Liturgy of the Word.

In the Liturgicon of the Ruthenian Catholics, some old copies suposedly include a note to lock the doors when the deacon (or priest) calls “The doors, the doors, in Wisdom be Attentive.” Solves the whole issue if the doors are locked!

 

[Pax_Tibi]

From what you said about locking the doors on someone seeking Jesus, thank God someone had the “wisdom” to rethink the old practices of the Ruthinian church.

 

[Fergal]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and make a generalization. I would say that people who make the effort to attend daily Mass, even if they cannot arrive at the beginning, are probably not slackers who can’t be bothered to be punctual, who should therefore be punished by not being allowed to receive the Eucharist. Going out on yet another limb, I’ll bet Our Lord is delighted to see everyone who gets there at all.

And how about an analogy on a limb…suppose you arrive at a family gathering an hour late, just as everyone is sitting down to dinner. Will you not further offend your family if you refuse to eat?
“My favorite meal that you made just for me - oh, no, I couldn’t possibly have any, since I missed the get-together before dinner.” Please.

Betsy

I am going to go out on a limb here and say what a ridiculous analogy Betsy.So the Mass is now a meal on par in form and manner with that of a family get together??? Sheesh.

If Holy Mother Church asks us to have the manners to refrain from approaching the Most Blessed Sacrament at times when we should not receive, then I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do whatever she tells us.

There are rubrics to be followed and to think that we know better is most arrogant.

 

[marypar]

As a scrupulant and daily mass attendee, I was in the practice of not receiving unless I arrived at the beginning of the Consecration. After reading various opinions on the internet, I decided to speak to my confessor (at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC) and he said there is no steadfast time during a weekday mass - in other words you can receive anytime during that Mass. I said that I notice people just come in and receive, he didn’t approve of that but it didn’t seem like a sinful thing to do. I also asked a different priest at another Confession and got the same answer, that I can receive anytime I arrive at the Mass.
but I make it my own rule to only receive if I am there by the Consecration. So two priests in a wonderful Cathedral gave me that advice and I definitely can feel free to follow that. Prior to that, I would arrive late, receive communion stay for the next mass up until the part that I heard previously. But I stopped doing that after talking to two priests. maryann

 

[baltobetsy]

If Holy Mother Church asks us to have the manners to refrain from approaching the Most Blessed Sacrament at times when we should not receive, then I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do whatever she tells us.

If ***Holy Mother Church ***had asked us to refrain from receiving the Eucharist at daily Mass if we have not arrived at the beginning, I would gladly comply. Show me this prohibition in an official document, please. And not a conclusion that you draw from something written about Sunday Mass. What we have here are the opinions of an individual priest and a bunch of people on the internet, not Holy Mother Church. HMC has said we should not receive if (1) we have not fasted for one hour, (2) we are not in a state of grace, or (3) we are not Catholic. The reason punctuality is essential on Sunday and not the rest of the time is that failure to observe the Sunday obligation by arriving late would possibly compromise our state of grace. There is no obligation on weekdays.

And for the record, I attend daily Mass, and I arrive 45 minutes early for personal prayer. But there have been times in my life when I have fought rush-hour traffic to make it to Mass after work. On the occasions when late meetings or traffic tie-ups kept me from arriving on time, it would never have occurred to me that Jesus no longer desired to unite Himself to me in the Eucharist.

In my correct-in-every-way Cathedral parish, I have seen, on many occasions, people arrive at the end of daily Mass and request Holy Communion from the priest after Mass. And every single time, the priest has gladly given Holy Communion with the shortest form of Communion Outside Mass.

Betsy

 

[Pax_Tibi]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say what a ridiculous analogy Betsy.So the Mass is now a meal on par in form and manner with that of a family get together??? Sheesh.

If Holy Mother Church asks us to have the manners to refrain from approaching the Most Blessed Sacrament at times when we should not receive, then I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do whatever she tells us.

There are rubrics to be followed and to think that we know better is most arrogant.

When you chastize Betsy’s analogy of the Mass as a family get together as “ridiculous”, you may not understand the idea of the Mass as a celebration. It is intended to be communal and it is the gathering of the Catholic family.

Your reverence is obvious as you explain going to communion as “approaching the Most Blessed Sacrament”. To others, going to communion may be wanting to experience receiving Jesus to feel the closeness and wanting an intimate time together, for whatever their reasons.

I have never looked at “Holy Mother Church” as having the right to keep people away from Jesus. How can HMC know a person’s prediposition for receiving communion?

My idea of the church is different from yours. Baptism made me a member on par with you, priests, Nuns, Popes, Bishops et al.
We may have different jobs, but no one is “more” a member than you or me. I think your idea of HMC is the hierarchy. We expect the hierarchy to maintain the othodoxy, protect the deposit of faith, preside at the mass and the sacraments, and to teach us how to form our consciences. They are the part of the church behind the scenes. We are the church to the world.

When you said, " I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do whatever she tells us", I would reword it to, “I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do what our consciences tells us.”

Thanks,

 

[otjm]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say what a ridiculous analogy Betsy.So the Mass is now a meal on par in form and manner with that of a family get together??? Sheesh.

You know good and well she did not say it is on a par. She said it was an analogy. Look analogy up in your New Oxford Dictionary.

If Holy Mother Church asks us to have the manners to refrain from approaching the Most Blessed Sacrament at times when we should not receive, then I think we should have the humility to stop and listen and do whatever she tells us.

And that is the substance of the question; other than personal feelings, and the personal feelings of the priest who refused Communion to the OP, no one has shown anything indicating that Holy Mother Church asks us to refrain.

There are rubrics to be followed and to think that we know better is most arrogant.

If you have the rubrics and can quote them, please do. No one else has been able to. There are no known rubrics that anyone has been able to produce that say any such thing.

 

[Fergal]

If you have the rubrics and can quote them, please do. No one else has been able to. There are no known rubrics that anyone has been able to produce that say any such thing.

Even though I live in Ireland, I am very well aware of the publications of the USCCB. They prepared a document called
“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper”:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist

They describe participation in the sacrifice of the Mass as “hearing the Word of God, and responding to it through acclamations, singing, and prayerful silence.”
So people continuously missing the readings are not fully participation and therefore shoud refrain from receiving.

Later in the document in answer to the question *"**HOW CAN WE PREPARE TO RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION MORE WORTHILY?", *they discuss proximal preparation. In it they state "We should prayerfully recollect ourselves prior to coming to Mass. We should strive to arrive on time, allowing ourselves to prepare our minds and hearts for the liturgy."

---

And please remember that I am referring to those folk who habitually i.e. every time are very late for Mass i.e. miss the Liturgy of the Word completely.

Document can be accessed at usccb.org/dpp/Eucharist.pdf

I would encourage all to read it, especially daily communicants.

 

[aboverubies]

Those people whom we observe arriving late may have a legitimate reason that they have already discussed with their priest.

Last Good Friday I arrived just as Holy Communion was being distributed; I received and left immediately afterwards. I got some strange looks (or it could just have been my imagination) but I had already arranged to do this with our priest.

I am making my First Fridays and have been taking my young sons with me. They are at a difficult age for sitting still and quiet during Mass and it is very hard to make it throught the half hour Mass without my DH to help me. I knew that there was no way we could make it through the long Good Friday service and I was particularly loathe to have my kids disrupt the sombre mood of this special service including Stations of The Cross etc. But I am nearly at the end of my First Fridays and I did not want to break the continuity of receiving Holy Communion on 9 consecutive Fridays.

I knew that Holy Communion was to be offered at the end of the service as there are many in our parish also making their First Fridays. I explained my situation to our priest and asked if it was alright to just receive and go and he said “Of course.” So while this seemed to give offense to some, I had done the best I could in the circumstances and prepared myself beforehand as best I could.

I also know of a fellow who attended daily Mass and left immediately after receiving Holy Communion every single day. This may have appeared to be the height of rudeness to those around him but he had actually explained to the priest his reasons for doing so. He was a doctor and had to leave in order to open his surgery on time. The priest agreed that it was more important for him to receive daily than it was to stay until the dismissal.

We (myself definately included) need to be careful about questioning when and why our fellow worshippers are arriving and leaving early or late. Perhaps they have a perfectly legitimate reason that’s none of our business?

 

[otjm]

Even though I live in Ireland, I am very well aware of the publications of the USCCB. They prepared a document called
“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper”:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist

They describe participation in the sacrifice of the Mass as “hearing the Word of God, and responding to it through acclamations, singing, and prayerful silence.”
So people continuously missing the readings are not fully participation and therefore shoud refrain from receiving.

Having read the document, that is the conclusion you draw; however, it is not substantiated by the text. The emphasis is that while in Mass, one whould actively participate; and no one here in this thread appears to disagree with that.

However, the USCCB document is non-responsive to the question of daily Mass and reception under the circumstances set forth by the OP. It is a nice try to attempt to extract that from the docmument, but as the document speaks to Sunday Mass primarily, it does not address the non-obligatory weekday Mass and circumstances as set forth by the OP; in fact, it specifically addresses non-reception only as to those Christian Communiites which do not have a valid Eucharist.

I await any document addressing the issue of the OP; should he be denied the opportunity to receive when, due to circumstances beyond his control, he arrives late for a weekday Mass.

 

[m134e5]

Often, organizations will have award ceremonies or other types of meetings, or the president/CEO will give a speech before the meal begins before they have a banquet. It is rude to come after the talking is over and the eating has begun. Do not come to Mass late. Sometimes it happens- people oversleep, or get caught in traffic, or whatever, but people should know how to plan to get there on time and plan for any unforseen circumstances. If you really can’t leave until you will probably be late for Mass, you should find another Mass time, or see if there is a way the priest can change the time (if others in the parish have similar problems, the priest just might go for it)

 

[Fergal]

It is a nice try to attempt to extract that from the docmument, but as the document speaks to Sunday Mass primarily, it does not address the non-obligatory weekday Mass and circumstances as set forth by the OP; in fact, it specifically addresses non-reception only as to those Christian Communiites which do not have a valid Eucharist.

It does, however tie in proper remote and proximal preparation for Mass with worthy Reception of Holy Communion, and under proper preparation it asks us to be on time for Mass. If my memory serves my correctly, being on time for Mass is mentioned twice throughout the document.

By the way what is the difference between being late for a Sunday Mass and a weekday Mass?? Just because something is non-obligatory does not lessen it’s importance?? If it is the case that non-bligatory weekday Masses then we may as well tell the latecomers not to worry about being late Mon-Sat as long as they show up somewhere between the Introductory Rite and the end of the distribution of Holy Communion. Sure hey, we could go so far as to tell them that if they are late for Holy Communion they can always leave early!

The logic presented in the above quote also seems to say that the reason for attendance at Holy Mass is reception of Holy Communion?

I find the whole idea of habitual lateness to the Holy Sacrifice a symptom of the laizzez faire attitude of many of our Catholic brothers and sisters. I suppose if the latecomers are bad mannered enough to think it ok to arrive very late for Mass and still tottle on up the aisle for Holy Communion then they will extract what they please from any liturgical document in order to bolster their rudeness.

 

[otjm]

It does, however tie in proper remote and proximal preparation for Mass with worthy Reception of Holy Communion, and under proper preparation it asks us to be on time for Mass. If my memory serves my correctly, being on time for Mass is mentioned twice throughout the document.

Yes, it is mentioned twice, but the thrust of the document is to Sunday Mass, as that is the only Mass the majority of people who attend regularly, attend. Very few people make it to Mass on the weekday. Further, the preparation for Mass should start before arriving. The document simply does not address the issue at hand - being late for a weekday Mass unavoidably.

By the way what is the difference between being late for a Sunday Mass and a weekday Mass?? Just because something is non-obligatory does not lessen it’s importance?? If it is the case that non-bligatory weekday Masses then we may as well tell the latecomers not to worry about being late Mon-Sat as long as they show up somewhere between the Introductory Rite and the end of the distribution of Holy Communion. Sure hey, we could go so far as to tell them that if they are late for Holy Communion they can always leave early!

To begin with, Mass on Sunday is for corporate worship required by the 10 Commandments and as applied by the Church to Sunday as opposed to Saturday. It is obligatory - that is, attendance at Mass, with or without Communion. It is the after-effects of Jansenism that pushed the Church to encourage frequent reception of Communion.

I have nowhere suggested that one should have a laize-faire attitude about going to Mass weekdays. The question is not the issue of a casual attitude; it is about being denied Communion when the lateness is not one’s fault. Let’s keep to the point.

So what is the purpose of going to Mass weekdays? It is a combination of worship and reception of Communion, and I would guess that if you asked most frequent weekday recipients which was more important, they would probably say that they are both important; but if allowed only one, they would rate reception of Communion high. Lets, for example, look at Christ walking with 2 disciples to Emmaeus; They recognized Him in the breaking of the bread; not in a Mass, but in Communion. Communion is the highest sign of union with Christ and one another, and is what the Mass leads up to. It was Pius 10th who strongly and repeatedly recommended frequent Communion, not me.

The logic presented in the above quote also seems to say that the reason for attendance at Holy Mass is reception of Holy Communion?

There are multiple reasons for attending Mass; and the culmination of it is in the reception of Communion. However, the Church does not anywhere I can find limit reception to only Mass, or only to some type of Liturgy of the Word and Communion.

I find the whole idea of habitual lateness to the Holy Sacrifice a symptom of the laizzez faire attitude of many of our Catholic brothers and sisters. I suppose if the latecomers are bad mannered enough to think it ok to arrive very late for Mass and still tottle on up the aisle for Holy Communion then they will extract what they please from any liturgical document in order to bolster their rudeness.

There you go again! Let’s keep it to the topic of attempting to attend on time, being late because of reasons beyond one’s control, and being refused. Look, I am part Irish too. Knock of the argumentativeness and get to the substance - or rahter, stick to the substance. You are not being successful in putting words in my mouth; I am quite capable on my own. I have said nothing about being lazy or lacadasical in attitude. Quit with the responses to a non-question already!

Now: I am still waiting for documentation that one who is late without fault should not receive at a weekday Mass. Not personal opinion, not extracting something from a document talking about Sunday Mass.

 

[drafdog]

Mass and the Eucharist.
As an altar boy in the late 50’s and early 60’s, I was frequently called upon to serve the 6:45AM Mass on weekdays as we lived a block and a half from the church. The pastor would arrive to vest and I would don cassock and surplice and prepare the altar. Father and I would enter and he would approach the tabernacle while I recited the confiteor dei. Opening the tabernacle, he would take a ciborium, bless the congregation and we would approach the altar rail to distribute communion.
After those who desired had received, we returned to the altar, the ciborium was put back and the tabernacle closed. We would then begin Mass. At communion time there were others in the congregation would had not received who came forward to the altar rail.
All of those who received before Mass had already left to home and jobs having had their spiritual “fix” for the day. Not all who received at the usual point in the Mass had necessarily arrived at 6:45, either.
The Church exists to provide the sacraments to us poor sinners. The nuns in the school taught us that to be considered to have attended Mass we had to attend the offertory, consecration, and communion. You are too late to have heard Mass when you have missed the offertory. You are never too late to receive Eucharist.

Matthew

 

[BobP123]

There certainly is precedent for this position. The tradition prior to VII was that if one was late for Mass, one did not receive communion.

I think it was how late you came that mattered. You needed to be there before the Offertory. Also you needed to spend more time in Church afterward if you came in just slightly late. But every parish had its own rules.