Latin in mass?

[maize]

i wish my church had latin,

although we did sing a song in latin during the benediction after adoration.

 

[Patchunky]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the language of the Catholic Church, under the Pope.

The different rites use different languages, but the Church uses Latin.

The Church under the Pope of Rome consists of 23 Rites of which the Roman/Latin is but one.

The Roman/Latin Rite is NOT the WHOLE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

 

[Patchunky]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the language of the Catholic Church, under the Pope.

The different rites use different languages, but the Church uses Latin.

This is from the EASTERN CATHOLIC portion of the Catholic Answers Forum…

Here is a listing that includes EACH of the twenty-three Catholic Churches in union with the Pope. Do not confuse “churches” with “rites”. A rite is a series of traditions, that includes different customs and liturgies. Several different churches may use the exact same rite. A Church has its own rules and separate line of authority to the Pope. It may also have a figure in charge, like a Metropolitan or a Patriarch (like an Archbishop), since these churches are generally very small and work very hard to preserve their unique traditions. The major rites are the Latin, Alexandrian, Antiochian, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine.
**
The Western (Latin) Catholic Church**
**
Latin liturgical tradition**

1. Ordinary Form
2. Extraordinary Form
3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form is permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converts to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish may continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings This is currently meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church reverts to the Ordinary Form.)

Rites of Religious Orders (These are not technically rites per se, but rather small variants of the Roman liturgy. The Ambrosian, Mozarabic, and Bragan Rites fall into this category too.):

1. Dominican Rite
2. Carthusian Rite
3. Carmelite Rite
4. Cisternian Rite

**
The Eastern Catholic Churches**

1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition

1. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
2. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
   2. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
3. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
4. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
5. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
   3. Armenian liturgical tradition:
6. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
   4. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
7. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
8. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
   5. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
9. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
10. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
11. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
12. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
13. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
14. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
15. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
16. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
17. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
18. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
19. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
20. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
21. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
22. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)

 

[Halos1n2Horns]

Question, If we was all to go back to latin masses ( tho i would just say the rosary like they did in the 18th century cause i dont understand it) But do you feel there would be new priests? or Nuns? if they went back to the old way of doing things.

I think its awesume to hear a priest chant the whole eurcharist in latin. and we do alot of latin in day masses. Just my opinion

peace be with you my friend’s Halos

 

[bkovacs]

Tom,
What you say very much makes you a representative of the “average” Catholic. Most Catholics think (or have thought) that Vatican II “has us using the vernacular”, but that isn’t the case. It’s one of the most serious misunderstandings of VII and misrepresentations of the Council’s teaching that has been perpetuated for years. Vatican II allows for parts of the Mass to be said in the vernacular (even the entire Mass) so that more people might understand what’s being said, but that is not the same thing as saying that Vatican II requires it–that’s the part that often gets repeated so much that people begin to think that the Council actually said that.

And keep this in mind. It wasn’t only the Latin that was changed with the NO Mass. The whole theology, rubrics, calendar, orientation of the priests and deacons, prayers removed, etc … was changed. The Latin language was secondary.

 

[passus]

Question, If we was all to go back to latin masses ( tho i would just say the rosary like they did in the 18th century cause i dont understand it) But do you feel there would be new priests? or Nuns? if they went back to the old way of doing things.

I think its awesume to hear a priest chant the whole eurcharist in latin. and we do alot of latin in day masses. Just my opinion

peace be with you my friend’s Halos

I think you might see a decrease in priestly vocations. I can’t say for sure, but I think many people would be turned off to the Mass and the Church if we returned to “the old way.”

However, the vocations which come out of those that did remain faithful to the Church through a change like that would probably be much more orthodox and centered priests.

 

[bkovacs]

I think you might see a decrease in priestly vocations. I can’t say for sure, but I think many people would be turned off to the Mass and the Church if we returned to “the old way.”

However, the vocations which come out of those that did remain faithful to the Church through a change like that would probably be much more orthodox and centered priests.

I doubt it!. Look at Russia. Since the return of Orthodoxy and “Tradition”. Two thirds of Russians now consider themselves Orthodox Christians, not communists. Tradition is very important.

 

[bkovacs]

Read through the various articles and archived articles to see and learn about Catholic Tradition. Very nice website!.

orbiscatholicus.blogspot.com/

 

[porthos11]

I think you might see a decrease in priestly vocations. I can’t say for sure, but I think many people would be turned off to the Mass and the Church if we returned to “the old way.”

However, the vocations which come out of those that did remain faithful to the Church through a change like that would probably be much more orthodox and centered priests.

I kinda doubt it. I think we will see an increase in vocations instead.

 

[Dauphin]

I understand the OP’s confusion.

Introducing Latin in the context of a liturgy that is otherwise divorced from Catholic tradition is a token gesture. It can’t achieve much to bring back only one part of the organic whole that is the Traditional Latin Mass.

The “verbal veil” of the Latin language placed over the sacred mysteries only finds its worth in the context of a truly traditional liturgy. It must seem like a pointless addition to someone who attends only the OF and doesn’t see how perfectly this solemn, magisterial language fits into the spirit of the liturgy.

 

[LaRoza]

The Church under the Pope of Rome consists of 23 Rites of which the Roman/Latin is but one.

The Roman/Latin Rite is NOT the WHOLE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

I think you mistook what I wrote. I am saying just that, the Rites are many, but the Church uses only Latin for its official language. The Roman rite can be said in any language as well.

I am not downplaying the other languages, but all of the Church’s official documents are in Latin (even if they weren’t originally written in Latin).

 

[LaRoza]

I think you might see a decrease in priestly vocations. I can’t say for sure, but I think many people would be turned off to the Mass and the Church if we returned to “the old way.”

However, the vocations which come out of those that did remain faithful to the Church through a change like that would probably be much more orthodox and centered priests.

Since the move away from Latin, the number of vocations has sharply decreased. Since the move from Latin, church participation has decreased. However, groups like the SSPX get more and more people and more people (especially young people) rediscover the sacred Traditions of the Church which were never abandoned, but forgotten in all the changes.

 

[Patchunky]

I think you mistook what I wrote. I am saying just that, the Rites are many, but the Church uses only Latin for its official language. The Roman rite can be said in any language as well.

I am not downplaying the other languages, but all of the Church’s official documents are in Latin (even if they weren’t originally written in Latin).

And you are wrong.

There are 4 “official” languages of the Church. These are the languages that the Divine Liturgy and Mass were translated into. They are Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old Church Slavonic.

When they bury a Pope, they have services in all 4 lanugages not just Latin.

 

[malphono]

And you are wrong.

There are 4 “official” languages of the Church. These are the languages that the Divine Liturgy and Mass were translated into. They are Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old Church Slavonic.

When they bury a Pope, they have services in all 4 lanugages not just Latin.

We could probably also include Coptic and Armenian on that list. (I could be wrong about this, but I seem to recall that at the last Papal obsequies, one of the incensations of the bier was done in Coptic.)

In any case, each particular Church does indeed have it’s proper “official language” no doubt about that.

OTOH, I will (very) grudgingly admit that Latin is somewhat unique, but only insofar as it is the administrative language of Rome. For example, the CCOE was promulgated in Latin albeit that it does not concern the Latin Church.

The situation is rather similar to what one encounters in India where there are myriad and sundry “official languages” (Hindi, Malayalam, Bengali, Tamil, Punjabi, etc etc … etc) but English (despite the fact that it was the language of the Raj) was kept as the “administrative language” in order to keep some semblance of order, at least as far as communication from the central government is concerned. Luxembourg is another example, but on a much smaller scale: there are three “official languages” (Letzeburgish, French, German) but, for a variety of historical reasons, French is used as the “administrative language.”

 

[LaRoza]

And you are wrong.

There are 4 “official” languages of the Church. These are the languages that the Divine Liturgy and Mass were translated into. They are Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old Church Slavonic.

When they bury a Pope, they have services in all 4 lanugages not just Latin.

Ok, prove it.

Latin is used for all official church documents, no matter the original language. No other language is used this way.

Official doesn’t need to be in quotes when I use it. It is the only official language of the Church. There have been others in the past, but only Latin is the official language of the Church. This does’t make it better than others. It just is the official language of the Church.

 

[japhy]

Question, If we was all to go back to latin masses (tho i would just say the rosary like they did in the 18th century cause i dont understand it).

What do you mean by “latin masses”? Do you mean the Extraordinary From (the “Traditional Latin Mass”), or do you mean the Ordinary Form (the Mass as reformed after Vatican II) done in Latin?

It’s one thing not to know the E.F. of the Mass. But I assume you know the O.F. of the Mass in your vernacular… so why wouldn’t you understand the great majority of it if it were done in Latin?

 

[Light_Seeker]

Sometimes parts of the Gloria are sung in Latin. I have not been able to determine why. Sometimes the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) and Angus Dei are sung in Latin. Again, I cannot figure out why.

Has there been something issued from Rome that we use more Latin During mass in the U.S.?

Oh brother! Here we go. Another poorly catechized Catholic that has** no clue** what our traditions are, happy with VII, and have this big bone about a little Church tradition in our Masses
Tom LaFaver:

I understand that Latin is the language of the church. It was my understanding that Vatican II has us using the vernacular so EVERYONE that doesn’t understand Latin (the majority of people, myself included) could understand what was being said. IMHO, even if one were to memorize the Latin songs and responses, but did not understand what they were saying the mass would be less meaningful.

Less meaningful for you, Mr. Cafeteria Catholic. Do us all a favor LaFaver, go buy a catechism & a missal & read it. Either that, or go back to your alter calls and being born again…
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Tom, good seeing ya on the forums. Thanks for making & sharing breakfast with us this morning after Mass, enjoyed seeing you & DW again! -TB

Gentle readers, please ignore this post. Tom’s a personal friend, told me this morning about these great forums, didn’t know I’ve been here awhile. Had to pull his chain a little.

 

[Tom_LaFaver]

Tom…

Thank you for the warm greeting. My chain was yanked a bit.

 

[PJM]

Question, If we was all to go back to latin masses ( tho i would just say the rosary like they did in the 18th century cause i dont understand it) But do you feel there would be new priests? or Nuns? if they went back to the old way of doing things.

I think its awesume to hear a priest chant the whole eurcharist in latin. and we do alot of latin in day masses. Just my opinion

peace be with you my friend’s Halos

Awesome post and question, thank you:tiphat:

Your question flows naturally from what you know and have experienced in the New Mass, the NO.

What is the Mass? **It is with God’s direct intervention **, at the hands of His priest, making the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross present to us, time and time again, although now in an unbloody manner, as Christ can and has only died once. It is the Risen Glorified, very real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of that same Jesus whom we receive in Catholic Holy Communion.

We term the Mass; “The Eucharist” which means “THANKS.” This one word describes the very purpose for The Mass, which is to give thanks to the Risen Lord.

We do this by active participation in the prayers and responses, by singing, by praying, and in a special way by listening to The Word of God, which is God, and allowing our Lords Words change how we actually live our life’s.:extrahappy:

We do THROUGH the worthy reception of Jesus Himself in Holy Communion.

The Mass, my friend is being present too, and giving thanks too God. It is NOT about us:thumbsup: This is a proper understanding of Catholic Divine Worship, that we call “The Mass.”

This being the reality, while it is good, that we are able to understand all the words used, it in not essential to the actual purpose of the Mass.

The 1962 Missal is written in two columns. Latin on the left side, and it’s English translation on the right side, directly across from the Latin. So we can, we do understand.

But so long as we know why we are at Mass, so long as we are Thankful, so long as we fully and actively participate, we are fullilling our proper role.

 

[Catholicc]

Sometimes parts of the Gloria are sung in Latin. I have not been able to determine why. Sometimes the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) and Angus Dei are sung in Latin. Again, I cannot figure out why.

Has there been something issued from Rome that we use more Latin During mass in the U.S.?

If I had my way the whole thing would be in Latin