Latin Mass comeback

[Margaret_Ann]

The other day I was listening to two young Catholic apologists who are very popular and have quite a following, ask why are we still living the in the 1970’s, in the Church. They said they just can’t seem to get the older Catholics to understand that the youth coming up are not interested in that era and hunger for the sacredness of Catholicism.

Could you please PM me a link for those 2 young Catholic apologists? I know someone who is totally against anything pre-VII, especially the TLM.

 

[otjm]

I can’t seem to understand how it is that the Vatican at that time thought that removing, even going as far as prohibiting,

When Sacrosanctum Concilium was voted on during Vatican-II, 2,147 bishops voted in favor of it and 4 voted against it. SC was not intended as a specific outline of exactly what changes the bishops wanted; but by that time all know that liturgical research had been going on for better than 60 years, and they wanted to make changes to the Mass.

We need to remember that the Council of Trent also made changes; and subsequent to Trent, changes were made periodically. It is also clear from the language of SC that it was more than just a minor tweak here, a minor tweak there; and the arguments over how much change the bishops wanted has continued since the OF was promulgated.

I suspect that if you were to go back and ask those bishops (most all of whom are deceased), none of them had any thought that we would have an EF and an OF; they presumed there would be changes, and just as in the past, once the changes were made, they were implemented everywhere; and so it would be again.

I don’t intend to get into “the bishops did not intend so many changes” as those bishops are dead and we cannot ask them.

Rather, the OF was promulgated, and some - particularly those who felt that the Mass needed no changes whatsoever, and others who felt that maybe a minor tweak here and there was all that was necessary - came out loud and strong during Pope John Paul’s reign, and he eventually allowed a limited usage of the EF (not called that yet). Part of the issue was the SSPX, which went back to Pope Paul’s reign and John Paul “inherited”.

When it came time for Pope Benedict, he was still dealing with the SSPX and others who might not be going to an SSPX chapel, but were vocally supportive of their position(s). He said that the EF had never been officially abrogated; but then, I am not sure that changes from Trent forward ever were accompanied by an official abrogation; someone may want to research that.

So the short of it was that I don’t think the bishops at Vatican 2 could foresee the reaction to the OF - which was not yet promulgated; nor do I think they particularly were concerned with an official abrogation; The Mass we had would be modified and all would move forward with it.

 

[OraLabora]

No offense OraLabora, your experiences are very interesting and enlightening to me, but your experiences of Mass are vastly different than 98%

I use my experiences to illustrate that that the form of the Mass has nothing to do with whether or not it is celebrated reverently.

That said our schola sings in various parishes throughout the year. Always OF. Most of them do a good job.

I recall one parish though, where the priest was mediocre at best. One day he was absent and a local missionary order sent a regular (i.e. religious) priest to replace him. Even though he didn’t sing, he said the Mass with such care and reverence it was amazingly beautiful. He was totally effaced and transparent, an instrument of the liturgy.

Reverence, or not, really boils down to the individual priest saying the Mass. That’s irrespective of form. My experience though, is that religious priests tend to be more uniform and have a higher standard of discipline. It’s certainly true of monastics.

For those disappointed with parishes, if available try attending a conventual Mass instead. Cathedrals too can be good.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So I think that the reason most of us do not see Mass as you describe is because the boundaries are too loose on the OF and by nature people will do as they choose or what they see others doing. The EF without so many loose boundaries keeps the Mass from becoming so irreverent.

those disappointed with parishes, if available try attending a conventual Mass instead. Cathedrals too can be good.

These are just not available to the average Catholic, which is why we are seeing this return to the EF.