Latin Mass/Novus Ordo

[The_Catholic]

I have never been to a Latin Mass, but from what I here it’s beautiful! But there are some who tell me that the Novus Ordo is basicly a demoralized Mass. And that the Masons were in Vatican 2 and influenced the Church to the new Mass. Is this true?

Some have also told me that the Novus Ordo is not sinful, or unacceptable, but that it’s just not as good and holy as the Latin, and that the Church should go back to it.

I know many have asked these questions before but it’s been a while since I’ve looked at this.

 

[Sixtus]

I am conscious that as I get older I find the Mass more of an emotional event. Sometimes it is very embarrassing for a 'grown man, sacristan and server to have tears running down my face!!!

What on earth will it be like at a latin mass? Don’t know if I dare

 

[6glargento]

I have never been to a Latin Mass, but from what I here it’s beautiful! But there are some who tell me that the Novus Ordo is basicly a demoralized Mass. And that the Masons were in Vatican 2 and influenced the Church to the new Mass. Is this true?

Some have also told me that the Novus Ordo is not sinful, or unacceptable, but that it’s just not as good and holy as the Latin, and that the Church should go back to it.

I know many have asked these questions before but it’s been a while since I’ve looked at this.

the novus ordo was created by paul VI with the help of 6 protestant ministers and one cardinal who turned out to be a closet freemason.

the novus ordo has introduced many reforms that were martin luther’s ideasback in the 16th century, it looks like his dream came true:
“take away the mass, and destroy the church” -martin luther

 

[LilyM]

the novus ordo was created by paul VI with the help of 6 protestant ministers and one cardinal who turned out to be a closet freemason.

the novus ordo has introduced many reforms that were martin luther’s ideasback in the 16th century, it looks like his dream came true:
“take away the mass, and destroy the church” -martin luther

What evidence is there that Bugnini was a freemason for one?

And in what sense was the Mass taken away? As opposed to the TLM, which we must remember has always been ***one among a number ***of different rites and liturgies available to Catholics?

Certainly the Mass was radically altered, and arguably for the worse, with the NO, but in no sense was it taken away.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

the novus ordo was created by paul VI with the help of 6 protestant ministers and one cardinal who turned out to be a closet freemason.

the novus ordo has introduced many reforms that were martin luther’s ideasback in the 16th century, it looks like his dream came true:
“take away the mass, and destroy the church” -martin luther

Utter rubbish, radical traditionalist propaganda. And you demonstrate your lack of knowledge about the matter anyway, in calling Archbishop Bugnini a cardinal. He wasn’t.

And can we have a primary source for your quotation attributed to Luther?

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

What evidence is there that Bugnini was a freemason for one?

And in what sense was the Mass taken away? As opposed to the TLM, which we must remember has always been ***one among a number ***of different rites and liturgies available to Catholics?

Certainly the Mass was radically altered, and arguably for the worse, with the NO, but in no sense was it taken away.

While we can cite sources and cite counter-sources all day long concerning the freemasonry issue…one thing is still certain. Protestants were involved. And while Freemasonry is a secret society not compatible with Catholicism…Protestanism is official heresy. Mingling the liturgy with either…is never a good idea.

And as for the Dominican, Mozabraic, Ambrosian, etc. those were extremely similar to the Tridentine Rite. (were speaking Western Church here)
Which we must remember have all been supressed (to the point of almost complete anihilation in the early days of the reform) in favor of the Novus Ordo as well.

 

[thistle]

the novus ordo was created by paul VI with the help of 6 protestant ministers and one cardinal who turned out to be a closet freemason.

the novus ordo has introduced many reforms that were martin luther’s ideasback in the 16th century, it looks like his dream came true:
“take away the mass, and destroy the church” -martin luther

I assume this is just your insane opinion because if you are stating a fact then you should be honest and have enough integrity to cite the evidence!

 

[6glargento]

I assume this is just your insane opinion because if you are stating a fact then you should be honest and have enough integrity to cite the evidence!

im sorry, i thought that this was a common fact which was accepted by everyone, i’ll do more reaserch into it

 

[JKirkLVNV]

im sorry, i thought that this was a common fact which was accepted by everyone, i’ll do more reaserch into it

No, it isn’t.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

While we can cite sources and cite counter-sources all day long concerning the freemasonry issue…one thing is still certain. Protestants were involved. And while Freemasonry is a secret society not compatible with Catholicism…Protestanism is official heresy. Mingling the liturgy with either…is never a good idea.

But there is no CREDIBLE evidence that they had (name removed by moderator)ut, there is no credible evidence that anything happened other than that they were SHOWN it.

 

[Formosus]

It appears the only person who presents evidence of the Archbishop’s supposed masonic link is Micheal Davies, a lefebvrrist apologetic whom hardly could be considered a balanced source on the issue.

 

[AJV]

While we can cite sources and cite counter-sources all day long concerning the freemasonry issue…one thing is still certain. Protestants were involved. And while Freemasonry is a secret society not compatible with Catholicism…Protestanism is official heresy. Mingling the liturgy with either…is never a good idea.

And as for the Dominican, Mozabraic, Ambrosian, etc. those were extremely similar to the Tridentine Rite. (were speaking Western Church here)
Which we must remember have all been supressed (to the point of almost complete anihilation in the early days of the reform) in favor of the Novus Ordo as well.

Ok MissaSolemnis,
What prayers did they propose for introduction and deletion?

A few of the the monastics have retained their own liturgies (revised) and the revised Ambrosian liturgy is also there. Though of course, dear Bugsy’s plan was UNIFORMITY (of a sort)

 

[anamchara]

Utter rubbish, radical traditionalist propaganda. And you demonstrate your lack of knowledge about the matter anyway, in calling Archbishop Bugnini a cardinal. He wasn’t.

And can we have a primary source for your quotation attributed to Luther?

amazing, this propaganda stuff isn’t it Jkirk?

 

[LilyM]

Ok MissaSolemnis,
What prayers did they propose for introduction and deletion?

A few of the the monastics have retained their own liturgies (revised) and the revised Ambrosian liturgy is also there. Though of course, dear Bugsy’s plan was UNIFORMITY (of a sort)

Bugsy

Got to tell that one to Papa Benny if I ever get to meet him

 

[Titus]

While we can cite sources and cite counter-sources all day long concerning the freemasonry issue…one thing is still certain. Protestants were involved. And while Freemasonry is a secret society not compatible with Catholicism…Protestanism is official heresy. Mingling the liturgy with either…is never a good idea.

**Feel free to. We cannot prove a negative, and so the burden of proof is clearly on you for making the allegation. **

im sorry, i thought that this was a common fact which was accepted by everyone, i’ll do more reaserch into it

**You need to get out more if you think everyone accepts the idea that the NO was formed by freemasons and protestants. As for the concept of everyonem, from examining the website of the Society of St Pius X, you have just over 1,000 members in the USA- as opposed to 77million Catholics. While numbers do not affect truth, they do affect the claim that your oddball ideas are ‘accepted by everyone’ **

 

[AlexV]

I am an equal opportunity critic of liturgy.

My parish actually sings the liturgy. Does yours? Chances are, no…whether your liturgy is the 1962 Missal, or the indult vernacular translations that haven’t quite made it to 2002.

However, given the relative scarcity of 1962 Masses, the majority of them do sing the liturgy, in comparison to the minority of Novus Ordo celebrations that do.

 

[scylla]

I have read some of these conspiracy theories and it seems to me that people give the free masons too much credit.

I am not sure if people really intended for things to go so bad in the Catholic Church, or there was a huge conspiracy by the Masons to completely destroy faith of countless people. I really doubt the people modifying the liturgy and trying out new models of the Church really had that in mind.
Many really care for the Church and thought that changing would open it up and bring more people to Christ.

The problems that we had today probably weren’t envisioned as some grand scheme by people. This is just the way it turned out and we need to correct some of the horrible things that have happened but some of the things people say seem pretty out there. (Like Paul VI having a mason connection or an imposter pope, etc)

I know a lady who really cares for the Catholic Church who works hard trying to run it and dedicated her life to trying to bring people to Jesus. She is a sister who doesn’t wear a habit and is in favor of female priests, but this is just because this is part of the mindset of her circle in the Catholic Church. She doesn’t hate it or want to destroy it, and I am pretty certain she is not affiliated with the Masons, but just is the end result of progressive thinking, questioning Catholic truth.
Just a big domino effect.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[netmilsmom]

How about this quick and easy guideline.
If you don’t have an internet reference to an accusation, don’t post it.

When you can’t back it up, you actually look pretty foolish if someone calls you on it.

 

[JNB]

“Offcial” evidence on Abp.Bugnini being a Freemason may never come out of the Vatican. That said, the FACT is that Abp.Bugnini was severely demonoted from being the head of the Conregation of Divine Worship, in charge of the liturgy for the entire Latin rite, to being the Papal Nuncio to Irans Latin Rite Catholics, essentially being in charge of 500 to 1000 laity, in 1975., sadly the damage was allready done.

How about this quick and easy guideline.
If you don’t have an internet reference to an accusation, don’t post it.

When you can’t back it up, you actually look pretty foolish if someone calls you on it.

 

[AlexV]

No proof has ever been made public that Annibale Bugnini was a Freemason.

That’s a fact.

In July, 1975, right before launching his next phase of the liturgical changes (“inculturation”), with practically no warning, he was fired and his Congregation suppressed after 6 years of existence. After several months without a post, he was finally named Pro-Nuncio to Iran in January, 1976.

If anyone thinks that’s business as usual in the Curia, they’re naive.

That’s a fact.