Latin Mass Workshops

[iohanne]

I’ve noticed that the local Copts are very good in fostering a strong Coptic identity in their youth through catechism and getting them involved liturgically - they ordain deacons as young as 6 and 7 years old. One of the activities that really caught my eye was their numerous workshops on the Divine Liturgy. I’ve also found several of these workshops on-line (mostly on Youtube) both by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church. The EF has many structural similarities to the eastern Divine Liturgies that render it difficult to understand without years of exposure to it and I feel that EF workshops offered universally would be a strong tool in the new liturgical movement.

However, the only kinds of workshops that are put out for the Extraordinary Form are workshops for priests and seminarians. If you Youtube, “How To Celebrate the Tridentine Mass” you will find a very thorough and exhaustive training tool for celebrating a missa lecta right down to the small rubrical details (i.e. resting your hands on the altar outside the corporal vs. inside the corporal, crossing yourself with the patin, when to raise the hands, extend the hands, join the hands, etc.) - however, unlike the workshops put out by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church there are no explanations for each of these individual technical actions, which no doubt, are imbued with some kind of meaning.

I am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass. We have two major parishes here that celebrate the EF but they are poorly attended and there are very few youth. The ideas that I’ve already mentioned here would be topics that can be included in an Extraordinary Form Workshop along with other things - like sharing with the laity the beautiful prayers that are said in a low voice or inaudibly or under the singing of the choir, lessons on the development of the liturgy, familiarising people with the various Rites of the Catholic Church but remaining focused on the Roman, English translations of the ordinary, melodies from a section of the Kyriale - maybe Missa XI Orbis Factor, etc.

I was wondering if I could have your thoughts and opinions concerning this idea?

 

[MissRose73]

That would be a great idea. I would love to learn more about that form of the Mass myself.

A parish a few hours from me was doing a course thing to help people learn the Mass and understand the parts of it, and I wish I could’ve participated in it but it conflicted with my work schedule.

 

[prettiefly]

I am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass. We have two major parishes here that celebrate the EF but they are poorly attended and there are very few youth.

This is an excellent idea, and it ‘kills 2 birds with one stone’ - by putting on a workshop and advertising it in all of the local parish bulletins, people that may not be aware of the Latin Masses in the area find out about them and start to attend, and those curious about it, often times the young, may come and find themselves drawn to it. We actually are going to be doing one in our area soon per the request of a local OF Pastor. Our EF Chaplain will be putting it together for us - do you have an EF priest in the area that would be willing to teach at your workshop?

 

[corsair]

I believe that St. John Cantius, in Chicago, is holding workshops for Lay persons. I know they do for priests.

We have weekly lectures for the laity at our FSSP parish in Seattle.

These are very popular.

 

[plefe]

I’ve noticed that the local Copts are very good in fostering a strong Coptic identity in their youth through catechism and getting them involved liturgically - they ordain deacons as young as 6 and 7 years old. One of the activities that really caught my eye was their numerous workshops on the Divine Liturgy. I’ve also found several of these workshops on-line (mostly on Youtube) both by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church. The EF has many structural similarities to the eastern Divine Liturgies that render it difficult to understand without years of exposure to it and I feel that EF workshops offered universally would be a strong tool in the new liturgical movement.

However, the only kinds of workshops that are put out for the Extraordinary Form are workshops for priests and seminarians. If you Youtube, “How To Celebrate the Tridentine Mass” you will find a very thorough and exhaustive training tool for celebrating a missa lecta right down to the small rubrical details (i.e. resting your hands on the altar outside the corporal vs. inside the corporal, crossing yourself with the patin, when to raise the hands, extend the hands, join the hands, etc.) - however, unlike the workshops put out by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church there are no explanations for each of these individual technical actions, which no doubt, are imbued with some kind of meaning.

I am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass. We have two major parishes here that celebrate the EF but they are poorly attended and there are very few youth. The ideas that I’ve already mentioned here would be topics that can be included in an Extraordinary Form Workshop along with other things - like sharing with the laity the beautiful prayers that are said in a low voice or inaudibly or under the singing of the choir, lessons on the development of the liturgy, familiarising people with the various Rites of the Catholic Church but remaining focused on the Roman, English translations of the ordinary, melodies from a section of the Kyriale - maybe Missa XI Orbis Factor, etc.

I was wondering if I could have your thoughts and opinions concerning this idea?

I will pray for that and for my echo of your blessed thoughts. Amen!

 

[plefe]

This is an excellent idea, and it ‘kills 2 birds with one stone’ - by putting on a workshop and advertising it in all of the local parish bulletins, people that may not be aware of the Latin Masses in the area find out about them and start to attend, and those curious about it, often times the young, may come and find themselves drawn to it. We actually are going to be doing one in our area soon per the request of a local OF Pastor. Our EF Chaplain will be putting it together for us - do you have an EF priest in the area that would be willing to teach at your workshop?

Please pray for my Diocese. I live in the Diocese of Gallup, NM and the Bishop and Priests almost run when they see me coming to visit. I am not a pest, but they see no future in it. Sadly, they were brought up in a different era.

 

[plefe]

I believe that St. John Cantius, in Chicago, is holding workshops for Lay persons. I know they do for priests.

We have weekly lectures for the laity at our FSSP parish in Seattle.

These are very popular.

Wonderful

 

[plefe]

I’ve noticed that the local Copts are very good in fostering a strong Coptic identity in their youth through catechism and getting them involved liturgically - they ordain deacons as young as 6 and 7 years old. One of the activities that really caught my eye was their numerous workshops on the Divine Liturgy. I’ve also found several of these workshops on-line (mostly on Youtube) both by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church. The EF has many structural similarities to the eastern Divine Liturgies that render it difficult to understand without years of exposure to it and I feel that EF workshops offered universally would be a strong tool in the new liturgical movement.

However, the only kinds of workshops that are put out for the Extraordinary Form are workshops for priests and seminarians. If you Youtube, “How To Celebrate the Tridentine Mass” you will find a very thorough and exhaustive training tool for celebrating a missa lecta right down to the small rubrical details (i.e. resting your hands on the altar outside the corporal vs. inside the corporal, crossing yourself with the patin, when to raise the hands, extend the hands, join the hands, etc.) - however, unlike the workshops put out by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church there are no explanations for each of these individual technical actions, which no doubt, are imbued with some kind of meaning.

I am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass. We have two major parishes here that celebrate the EF but they are poorly attended and there are very few youth. The ideas that I’ve already mentioned here would be topics that can be included in an Extraordinary Form Workshop along with other things - like sharing with the laity the beautiful prayers that are said in a low voice or inaudibly or under the singing of the choir, lessons on the development of the liturgy, familiarising people with the various Rites of the Catholic Church but remaining focused on the Roman, English translations of the ordinary, melodies from a section of the Kyriale - maybe Missa XI Orbis Factor, etc.

I was wondering if I could have your thoughts and opinions concerning this idea?

You may find some help here. God Bless You.

sanctamissa.org/workshops

 

[Jane_of_Arc]

I’ve noticed that the local Copts are very good in fostering a strong Coptic identity in their youth through catechism and getting them involved liturgically - they ordain deacons as young as 6 and 7 years old. One of the activities that really caught my eye was their numerous workshops on the Divine Liturgy. I’ve also found several of these workshops on-line (mostly on Youtube) both by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church. The EF has many structural similarities to the eastern Divine Liturgies that render it difficult to understand without years of exposure to it and I feel that EF workshops offered universally would be a strong tool in the new liturgical movement.

However, the only kinds of workshops that are put out for the Extraordinary Form are workshops for priests and seminarians. If you Youtube, “How To Celebrate the Tridentine Mass” you will find a very thorough and exhaustive training tool for celebrating a missa lecta right down to the small rubrical details (i.e. resting your hands on the altar outside the corporal vs. inside the corporal, crossing yourself with the patin, when to raise the hands, extend the hands, join the hands, etc.) - however, unlike the workshops put out by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church there are no explanations for each of these individual technical actions, which no doubt, are imbued with some kind of meaning.

[BI am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass**.

This is the BEST idea I’ve heard in a long time. I attended the TLM. daily until they took it away in 1969 & was well educated in Catholicism, by some wonderful Catholic nuns, re the old Mass. HOWEVER, my kids entered Catholic schools in the 70’s & 80’s & have NO IDEA what’s going on at the altar when praying the EF. Mass. Classes would be the ideal.

 

[Cristiano]

I’ve noticed that the local Copts are very good in fostering a strong Coptic identity in their youth through catechism and getting them involved liturgically - they ordain deacons as young as 6 and 7 years old. One of the activities that really caught my eye was their numerous workshops on the Divine Liturgy. I’ve also found several of these workshops on-line (mostly on Youtube) both by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church. The EF has many structural similarities to the eastern Divine Liturgies that render it difficult to understand without years of exposure to it and I feel that EF workshops offered universally would be a strong tool in the new liturgical movement.

However, the only kinds of workshops that are put out for the Extraordinary Form are workshops for priests and seminarians. If you Youtube, “How To Celebrate the Tridentine Mass” you will find a very thorough and exhaustive training tool for celebrating a missa lecta right down to the small rubrical details (i.e. resting your hands on the altar outside the corporal vs. inside the corporal, crossing yourself with the patin, when to raise the hands, extend the hands, join the hands, etc.) - however, unlike the workshops put out by the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church there are no explanations for each of these individual technical actions, which no doubt, are imbued with some kind of meaning.

I am considering contacting my local diocese about organising a youth group of young adults who would be trained and educated in “re-catechising” the faithful in the EF form of the Mass. We have two major parishes here that celebrate the EF but they are poorly attended and there are very few youth. The ideas that I’ve already mentioned here would be topics that can be included in an Extraordinary Form Workshop along with other things - like sharing with the laity the beautiful prayers that are said in a low voice or inaudibly or under the singing of the choir, lessons on the development of the liturgy, familiarising people with the various Rites of the Catholic Church but remaining focused on the Roman, English translations of the ordinary, melodies from a section of the Kyriale - maybe Missa XI Orbis Factor, etc.

I was wondering if I could have your thoughts and opinions concerning this idea?

I would say that teaching people about the EF is not a priority. I honestly think that most of the people lack real instruction on what the Mass is about, they are even more ignorant about the origins and history of the liturgies. My suggestion is do what is needed before you do what you like, it is not fun but it is good.

 

[iohanne]

I would say that teaching people about the EF is not a priority. I honestly think that most of the people lack real instruction on what the Mass is about, they are even more ignorant about the origins and history of the liturgies. My suggestion is do what is needed before you do what you like, it is not fun but it is good.

I think that the workshops would necessarily include sections on what the Mass is about and the origins and histories of liturgies. It’s impossible to really understand the EF without knowing what the Mass was about. At the same time, it’s impossible to really understand what the Mass is about without attending it and praying it and falling into it. I believe the EF can shed a different light on the nature of the Mass and has a lot to teach about what Mass is about.

Secondly, the Pope and many bishops are encouraging the use of the EF. I’m simply suggesting a perfect way to aid in this encouraging. People won’t want to go to an EF if they have no introduction to or familiarity with it and are just thrown into it all at once.

 

[LilHomemaker]

I think that would be a great idea. It would be wonderful if the workshops were then able to be seen on youtube or purchased on DVD or something. I have been trying to find information myself over the last couple of days. I found a couple of youtube videos from Rev. Justice Nolan FSSP that helped but would like alot more.

 

[prettiefly]

I think that would be a great idea. It would be wonderful if the workshops were then able to be seen on youtube or purchased on DVD or something. I have been trying to find information myself over the last couple of days.

What kind of information would you be looking to find on a dvd about the EF Mass? We are going to be putting on a workshop, and we are looking to put together a video presentation. Any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated ~

 

[plefe]

I think that would be a great idea. It would be wonderful if the workshops were then able to be seen on youtube or purchased on DVD or something. I have been trying to find information myself over the last couple of days. I found a couple of youtube videos from Rev. Justice Nolan FSSP that helped but would like alot more.

Please read my earlier post and check the link out. I have several training manuals for the EF and 2 media items titled: Serving at the Altar; Instructions & CD audio responses for one server at the Tridentine Mass (Angelus Press 1-800-966-7337). The other is a DVD: Ordo Missae Privatae In Festo Ssmae, Trinitatis; Low Mass of Trinity Sunday; 1962 Missale Romanum; Traditional Latin Mass DVD Canonici Regulares S. Joannis Cantii, Chicagoensis MMVIII that I purchased and received from SanctaMissa.org

 

[LilHomemaker]

What kind of information would you be looking to find on a dvd about the EF Mass? We are going to be putting on a workshop, and we are looking to put together a video presentation. Any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated ~

I think there are a lot of rituals and differences that I think maybe a lot of people don’t understand and maybe that is why some people are hesitant to return to the TLM, though I do believe desire for the TLM is growing. So, I guess maybe the differences in the vestments, understanding why the priest is facing the way he does, why there is an altar rail, the importance of the cloths, the prayers and the role of the altar boy and the laity and such. I think the why of things.

Also, I think the history of the Mass.

Thank you so much.

 

[LilHomemaker]

Please read my earlier post and check the link out. I have several training manuals for the EF and 2 media items titled: Serving at the Altar; Instructions & CD audio responses for one server at the Tridentine Mass (Angelus Press 1-800-966-7337). The other is a DVD: Ordo Missae Privatae In Festo Ssmae, Trinitatis; Low Mass of Trinity Sunday; 1962 Missale Romanum; Traditional Latin Mass DVD Canonici Regulares S. Joannis Cantii, Chicagoensis MMVIII that I purchased and received from SanctaMissa.org

Thanks. I visited your site today. It does have helpful information. Also, I love the video and the story of St. John Cantius parish.

 

[Jane_of_Arc]

I would say that teaching people about the EF is not a priority. I honestly think that most of the people lack real instruction on what the Mass is about, they are even more ignorant about the origins and history of the liturgies. My suggestion is do what is needed before you do what you like, it is not fun but it is good.

If we are to teach most of the people what the Mass is about…the Sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb in order that God would open the gates of heaven…we would have to teach them about the Mass of the Ages, too. I don’t really think that they should be expected to jump from the Crucifixion to the Novus Ordo Mass. Just my

:twocents:

 

[plefe]

I might add that we must walk before we can run. We also must read and eduacate oneself about God until we see God. American Catholics are spoiled by the world, allowing us to teach and preach Catholocism in any form we wish. Catechism and Catholic Doctorine are not taught in our Catholic Schools, ask my children. When I went to parochial school, Nuns in habits along with Priests taught us. When they started bringing lay people into teach, about the time VII was taking hold, education changed. Then we saw tuition double, but not wages. My folks had to pull me out and send me to public schools, where I was ahead of the kids there by 2 years. The Catechism being taught in CCD changed, bringing in the Way Bible, singing Cumbuyah, and holding hands;1967-70. What happened to my 1962 Bible in Latin/English? What is that they’re teaching? Who are these people teaching? We left the teaching up to one’s own convictions to start with, allowing that standards and guidelines could be manipulated to fit the teachers understanding. What? What about Church Doctorine. I could go on and on, as well I bet many of you can too. We learned what was properly presented by proper teachers before the change. I was asked to purchase a Bible for my 13 year old for school. Do they read? Are they being taught the wonderfully iconic teachings of God’s words. No, not in the way it used to be taught. They don’t crack the book. It is to be used as a tool to look up information. Well that’s fine if they learn how it is laid out. How do they do that? By reading it in class from cover to cover and studying one book at a time. So how do we bring back the proper Mass? By teaching the Latin and meanings behind the Mass. Where, in our schools and churches, and our so called Catechism classes. What are Catechesis learning? I don’t know, because I don’t see any proper teaching going on. On top of that, where have all the men gone. Stand Up and be counted. Oh you in the first row. Is there anyone else who would be counted? Come on. I mean, men, take some responsibility for this and quit complaining.

 

[Jane_of_Arc]

I might add that we must walk before we can run. We also must read and eduacate oneself about God until we see God. American Catholics are spoiled by the world, allowing us to teach and preach Catholocism in any form we wish. Catechism and Catholic Doctorine are not taught in our Catholic Schools, ask my children. When I went to parochial school, Nuns in habits along with Priests taught us. When they started bringing lay people into teach, about the time VII was taking hold, education changed. Then we saw tuition double, but not wages. My folks had to pull me out and send me to public schools, where I was ahead of the kids there by 2 years. The Catechism being taught in CCD changed, bringing in the Way Bible, singing Cumbuyah, and holding hands;1967-70. What happened to my 1962 Bible in Latin/English? What is that they’re teaching? Who are these people teaching? We left the teaching up to one’s own convictions to start with, allowing that standards and guidelines could be manipulated to fit the teachers understanding. What? What about Church Doctorine. I could go on and on, as well I bet many of you can too. We learned what was properly presented by proper teachers before the change. I was asked to purchase a Bible for my 13 year old for school. Do they read? Are they being taught the wonderfully iconic teachings of God’s words. No, not in the way it used to be taught. They don’t crack the book. It is to be used as a tool to look up information. Well that’s fine if they learn how it is laid out. How do they do that? By reading it in class from cover to cover and studying one book at a time. So how do we bring back the proper Mass? By teaching the Latin and meanings behind the Mass. Where, in our schools and churches, and our so called Catechism classes. What are Catechesis learning? I don’t know, because I don’t see any proper teaching going on. On top of that, where have all the men gone. Stand Up and be counted. Oh you in the first row. Is there anyone else who would be counted? Come on. I mean, men, take some responsibility for this and quit complaining.

It sounds as if you & I are pretty much ‘in sync’ about our thoughts re. today’s catechism.
What I can’t understand is why can’t the laity, the priests, the bishops etc. SEE THAT IT’S NOT WORKING?? Our children are using Artificial Birth Control, divorcing & remarrying, etc., etc.

I was away from the city where I was raised & Catechized for 25 yrs. When I came back, I was really looking forward to going to Mass in the parish I’d attended as a child. It was a Precious Blood parish & I noticed that you had also been a pupil of the Precious Blood.

I was AMAZED at the difference. The Altar was gone, the Communion Rail, the Confessionals, the statues & it is a parish of felt banners. Sin is NEVER mentioned in a sermon. The Precious Blood priests will not even consider having a Latin Mass. Have they become one of the liberal orders?

 

[plefe]

What kind of information would you be looking to find on a dvd about the EF Mass? We are going to be putting on a workshop, and we are looking to put together a video presentation. Any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated ~

I believe that if you go to the site I suggested, you would find everything necessary to help you in your endeavors. While producing your video, you could voice over in English using a 62’ Latin/English version of the Bible, and or you could pause it at each section of the Mass and break in or explaing each session. The best instructions I have found have also come from the same site in offering server training for one or two servers. If you also search your Diocese for Priests and Alter Servers who have offered/served TLM, it might be they would offer assistance. You tube at youtube.com also has a full video offering TLM. God Bless you in your endeavors and wish I could join you. In Jesus, Mary, and Joseph