Latin Mass

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KendraDZ1902

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👋 New Catholic here and I am kind of interested in going to a Traditional Latin Mass. What is different? In the missalette, will they have the responses in Latin so I know what to correctly say? I just need an over view. lol Thanks! 🙂
 
The differences are many and none. The structure of Mass will basically be the same, yet the structure will still feel a bit different. The prayers at the beginning of Mass are considerably different, as are the Offertory prayers. Other than these, the prayers in the two Forms of the Roman Rite are comparable, basically speaking.

The readings might be in Latin, might be in the vernacular. It depends. If the Mass is a sung Mass, there will be considerable singing. Not just the Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei, but a whole host of other bits, parts which can be sung in the “English Mass” or Ordinary Form, but which, on the whole, often aren’t. There will be no hymns actually within the Mass. If there are hymns at a sung Mass, they will be at the procession and/or recession. However, there will be plenty of opportunity for you to sing along. If the Mass is a “Low Mass,” or read Mass (Missa Lecta), there will be no singing except for, perhaps (weekdays)/probably (Sundays), a processional and recessional hymn, maybe also a hymn at the Offertory and Communion, although these are not required.

There will likely be provided a booklet for your use, which will be confusing to use, but you will figure it out. There will be page flips and flip backs, to switch between the proper and ordinary of the Mass. The responses will be there for your use, and they will also probably be set to music. The responses are almost universally the same as what you are used to, except the language, of course.

My advice is not to over prepare. Maybe read a bit, but do not make this like SAT prep. Enjoy it.
 
Yes there is a different missalette. They are red and are passed out before mass and in little baskets. It has the Latin and English responses and readings. It took me over a year to really understand everything that was going on. Latin mass is longer than English mass; usually about 90 minutes. Folks usually dress up a little more too with women often wearing mantillas and men wearing more suits and ties. Over the few years I’ve been attending, I’ve seen lots of new people go from curious to devout attendees of the Latin Mass.
 
What about receiving communion? Can I receive in the hand or what? The bulletin says it is a High Mass. Will that make it even more different?
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
What about receiving communion? Can I receive in the hand or what? The bulletin says it is a High Mass. Will that make it even more different?
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During the Latin Mass communion is received kneeling and in the tongue. You don’t say Amen because it’s part of the prayer the priest says when he gives you communion. Usually there is an altar rail to kneel at.

The difference between a Solemn High Mass and a Low Mass? More singing and less kneeling in the Solemn High Mass. Also there is Asperges in the beginning, and incensing of the altar several times and the people once. (Smells and bells… with sprinkles!)

Don’t worry if you don’t follow everything in the missal at first. You have to attend a few times to get the hang of it. The Latin has a kind of rhythm or cadence that you will get used to. At a solemn high Mass there are several levels of prayers, some by the celebrant and some by the choir and they sometimes go on all at once.

Just do what everyone around you is doing. Try to sit close to the front, so you can see what’s going on.

And about the chapel veils or Mantillas the ladies wear - they not required. I usually wear a hat, but even that’s not required. It’s a custom, but wearing a hat or veil does add dignity to the celebration of the Mass.

Try to not worry about making a mistake. We get new people at the Latin Mass all the time, so nobody worries if you don’t do everything perfectly.
 
I also plan to attend a TLM (maybe this May). I already have this booklet which contains the Order of the Mass in Latin and English side-by-side and I’ve also watched it on TV before. My questions is:

Considering that one is to attend the TLM regularly, is it better to follow the Mass through the missalette (especially when the priest says the text silently) or is it better to just have your silent prayers and join them to the prayers the priest is saying silently? During the Canon of the Mass, for example. What do you suggest?
 
Unless confirmed, you can’t receive communion even at Latin Mass.
 
Not true about the Confirmation. I know a man who recently came to the Church and he received Communion in the Latin Mass some time before his Confirmation
 
Is there a reason why the Missal for the Latin Mass has not been re-written to make it easier for newbies to follow? Or is there are “TLM for Dummies” available?

JMO, but this “TLM Missal thing” feels a little “snotty” to me. It seems to me–and again, this is just my opinion–that the advocates of the Latin Mass delight in keeping “The Secrets” to themselves and forcing others to grit their teeth and search for a MIssal (often found online only), and then figure it out over time. I’ve even seen posts on this board that say, “It took me about a year to figure out what was happening, but once I did…”

What is the point of this mysteriousness?! Why not just educate people?

Why not provide a Manual for Dummies that will be in order of the actual liturgy, with no flipping around (flipping around a book seems to me to promote irritation and possible irreverence), explain what the lay person in the pew is expected to do or not do, have good translations into the vernacular for those who wish to understand what is being said, and above all else, explain all the symbolism in the choreography of the TLM for all the newbies. :confused:

We all (traditionalist and non-traditionalists) talk about the desperate need for Catholic catechesis, and this seems to me to be a no-brainer!–an easy-to-follow Guide to the TLM! I think this would bring a lot more people into the TLM parishes, because they would be able to read about the TLM in advance and “study up” so that they wouldn’t feel foolish or feel like they were attracting attention to themselves.

Certain Catholic apologists have written excellent Mass guides for the OF Mass that explain everything–we have some of these out in our parish narthex. Does anything like this exist for the TLM? It should exist.

Thank you, and I hope that this post will result in something good.
 
browebmaster said:
Considering that one is to attend the TLM regularly, is it better to follow the Mass through the missalette (especially when the priest says the text silently) or is it better to just have your silent prayers and join them to the prayers the priest is saying silently? During the Canon of the Mass, for example. What do you suggest?
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The first time, and maybe the first few times, I suggest you don’t try to follow the text the whole time, maybe not at all. Just watch and take everything in. After you get used to the rhythm of things, it depends on what works best for you. Following the prayers in the missal is beneficial and perhaps the ideal, however, Pius XII acknowledged in Mystici Corporis Christi #108 that this doesn’t work for everyone. The faithful can “lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.”
 
Cat said:
this “TLM Missal thing” feels a little “snotty” to me. . . . Why not provide a Manual for Dummies . . . Does anything like this exist for the TLM?
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It’s not necessary to follow every liturgical detail of every Mass. Who even does this with the new missal? For those who wish to follow all the propers of the old missal, the learning curve is slightly higher, but it’s really not that hard. Many people just follow the ordinary, which is overwhelmingly most of the Mass and all in one place.

That said, there are all sorts of guides and manuals with a printed Ordinary in Latin and English side-by-side. Those “little red booklets” are perhaps the most common ones. Some booklets have photos of what the priest is doing at each part of the Mass.
 
marcaevans said:
Unless confirmed, you can’t receive communion even at Latin Mass.
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Not necessarily. Most children receive their first Communion several years before Confirmation, and a person who received first Communion as a child but was never confirmed is still permitted to receive Communion as an adult without confirmation as long as they have not committed any mortal sins since their last confession. It is only adult converts who are, as a general but not absolute rule, confirmed before receiving first Communion.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
It’s not necessary to follow every liturgical detail of every Mass. Who even does this with the new missal? For those who wish to follow all the propers of the old missal, the learning curve is slightly higher, but it’s really not that hard. Many people just follow the ordinary, which is overwhelmingly most of the Mass and all in one place.

That said, there are all sorts of guides and manuals with a printed Ordinary in Latin and English side-by-side. Those “little red booklets” are perhaps the most common ones. Some booklets have photos of what the priest is doing at each part of the Mass.
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Boldface above: Why not?

You’re talking to an ex-Protestant here, who was taught from childhood to “test the spirits” and to “be ready to give an answer for our faith.” (That was an admonition from the first pope, St. Peter.)

The Bible is full of exhortations to “study” and “learn.”

I grew up in the era where the Moonies and other cults would use all kinds of half-truths to lure under-educated teenagers and college kids into their lairs, and then brainwash them.

Right now, there are various religious sects that disguise themselves as “Christian”, or that are so moral and upstanding that even educated Christians get fooled and fall into their traps.

I don’t think Christians can be too careful. We’ve all read posts here on CAF from people who sat through a “Mass” thinking it was Catholic, and then found out that it wasn’t Catholic at all, or was a sedevacantist group.

My husband and I researched and studied for two years before beginning RCIA. We were not about to get involved with something that was not truly Christian.

So I make absolutely no apologies for wanting to understand EVERYTHING, including the liturgy of the Mass. If that is the “legacy” of my Protestant years, then so be it and praise God.

You ask, “Who even does this with the new missal?” Apparently lots of people do, because several of the ex-Protestant converts have written beautiful books that describe, in detail, everything that happens in the OF Mass, and what it all means, and where it can be found in Scripture. They wouldn’t write these books, and publishers wouldn’t publish them, if no one was interested in learning more about the Mass.

I wish that they or someone else would do the same for the Latin Mass. From what I’ve seen of the “little guides,” they are pretty confusing, and they require some flipping around. Why not re-write this for people, both Catholics and non-Catholics, who have NO BACKGROUND and no previous history or experience with the Latin Mass (or for Protestants, with any Mass or any liturgy)?

If you prefer to feel mysterious and not worry about understanding everything–if this helps you to worship God–then that’s great. God bless you.

But being confused and ignorant does NOT help ME to worship God. On the contrary–it makes me want to run away as fast as I can and find something that I can trust.
 
Cat said:
What is the point of this mysteriousness?! Why not just educate people?
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“celebrate these sacred Mysteries”… “the mystery of Faith”…

Isn’t THIS educating people? It really isn’t rocket science - third graders at my parish serve the traditional Mass, and for over a thousand years people learned by doing from birth. But Catholics have always had to take time to learn about the Mass before entering into the sacred mysteries, and they still do today in CCD, religious education, RCIA… Translating the whole thing into the vernacular doesn’t make it any more understandable; you might understand the words that are being said, but that doesn’t mean you understand the Mass.

The “mystery” of the Latin Mass comes from the fact that the priest says many prayers silently, because he’s talking to God on behalf of the people. But we know exactly what he’s saying at all times if we choose to follow along in the missal. For the most part, the Mass is the Mass; however, the traditional Mass has preparatory prayers at the beginning (the “prayers at the foot of the altar”, mainly Psalm 42) that are omitted in the new Mass, and the offertory and communion prayers are more elaborate in the tradtional Mass.

This may be helpful to understand the similarities and differences between the two missals.
lms.org.uk/resources/comparison-between-the-traditional-and-novus-ordo-missals
 
Cat said:
Boldface above: Why not?
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I am confident that people aren’t saying that you shouldn’t learn about the Mass and about the Faith, Rather, they are merely saying that an advanced liturgical understanding is not a prerequisite for attendance at the traditional Mass. The best way to gain that understanding is often by immersion.
 
browebmaster said:
I also plan to attend a TLM (maybe this May). I already have this booklet which contains the Order of the Mass in Latin and English side-by-side and I’ve also watched it on TV before. My questions is:

Considering that one is to attend the TLM regularly, is it better to follow the Mass through the missalette (especially when the priest says the text silently) or is it better to just have your silent prayers and join them to the prayers the priest is saying silently? During the Canon of the Mass, for example. What do you suggest?
Click to expand...
I suggest to follow along as best you can in the missal, but if you get lost don’t worry, there are a lot of cues, such as the ringing of a single bell when the Canon of the Mass starts, and the ringing of a second bell just before the consecration. The time for silent adoration is after the consecration (where there are a LOT of bells). That’s about the only meditative time. The rest of Mass is pretty active.

I think the idea that the priest is saying the Mass while the the people are praying their own private devotions is a myth that keeps perpetuating itself from some things that happened in the mid-20th century. It’s certainly not the current experience of the Mass. Perhaps the assumed suppression of the Latin Mass that happened in the 70’s and 80’s has renewed to the people the actual value of the prayers of the Latin Mass.

Don’t worry if you can’t sing the responses at first - just kinda hum along 😃

Once you have attended a number of times you will get a good idea of what is happening at each point. Then it’s a good idea to buy a full missal that has the propers of the Mass. That brings in a whole new element of prayer because it includes the choir’s participation. At a Solemn High Mass, the choir is actually a required part of the Mass, unless you can get the whole assembled people to sing - then it’s a Missa Cantata.

BTW, here’s the best video on the Solemn High Mass. It is narrated by Archbishop Fulton Sheen, explaining the parts of the Mass
youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64
 
marcaevans said:
Unless confirmed, you can’t receive communion even at Latin Mass.
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I had confirmation and first communion at this past Easter Vigil. That is why my post said “New Catholic” not “I’m in RCIA” 🙂
 
aemcpa said:
“celebrate these sacred Mysteries”… “the mystery of Faith”…

Isn’t THIS educating people? It really isn’t rocket science - third graders at my parish serve the traditional Mass, and for over a thousand years people learned by doing from birth. But Catholics have always had to take time to learn about the Mass before entering into the sacred mysteries, and they still do today in CCD, religious education, RCIA… Translating the whole thing into the vernacular doesn’t make it any more understandable; you might understand the words that are being said, but that doesn’t mean you understand the Mass.

The “mystery” of the Latin Mass comes from the fact that the priest says many prayers silently, because he’s talking to God on behalf of the people. But we know exactly what he’s saying at all times if we choose to follow along in the missal. For the most part, the Mass is the Mass; however, the traditional Mass has preparatory prayers at the beginning (the “prayers at the foot of the altar”, mainly Psalm 42) that are omitted in the new Mass, and the offertory and communion prayers are more elaborate in the tradtional Mass.

This may be helpful to understand the similarities and differences between the two missals.
lms.org.uk/resources/comparison-between-the-traditional-and-novus-ordo-missals
Click to expand...
I’m not doing a very good job of making my point clear.

Maybe it would make more sense if I told you, “You’re talking to Mr. Spock here, not Captain Kirk.” Does that make it more clear what I’m getting at?

Of course 3rd graders at your parish serve the Traditional Mass, because they come from CATHOLIC families and they have been around the Mass since they were in the womb.

PROTESTANT families have no clue. The catechism speaks of “invincible ignorance.” Evangelical Protestants do not have any liturgical tradition at all. None.

When you say, “the Ordinary,” Protestants (Evangelicals) have no clue what you are talking about. When you say, “Serve at Mass,” same thing–no clue. And when you talk about the order of the Mass (prayer at the foot of the altar??), etc.–remember, Protestants have no idea what you are talking about. The 3rd graders know more than they do!

You might as well be speaking in Latin!

HOWEVER, Evangelical Protestants have a burning desire to learn. Many Evangelical Protestants will avoid “experiences” that they don’t understand. They want to know the what, when, where, how, and especially the WHY of everything about Christianity. That’s one reason why Catholics always find Evangelical Protestant converts so “enthusiastic.” It’s because the Evangelical Protestants are the ones with their Bibles and Catechisms open, a notebook and pen in hand, and their hands up waiting to ask questions of the priests or other teachers/speakers.

So don’t expect Evangelical Protestants to “immerse themselves” in anything that they don’t have a complete understanding of. For Evangelical Protestants, that’s a good way to drown, unless you know how to swim and are wearing appropriate life preservers.

And…I hate to tell you this, but I think that many Catholic Christians have been influenced by Evangelical Protestants, and they now want to know all about it, too, rather than just “immersing themselves.” 😉

So I stand by my first post in this thread–a good, simple, “Guide to the TLM” would be very popular. I think that TLM advocates should seriously consider discontinuing the practice of telling people, “Just go buy a Missal” or “Just sit back and don’t worry about understanding it.” That isn’t going to cut it anymore.

I don’t see why the TLM advocates would object to people trying to understand more fully what they are “experiencing” in the Latin Mass. What do I not understand here? What’s the disconnect between “understanding” and “Latin Mass?”
 
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