"Latin" Orthodox

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grace_singh

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this is just something i’ve been considering for a few days now, and wanted to run it by Catholics and non-Catholics here.

many Protestants argue that the Catholic Church has no right to claimn itself as any kind of original church, or as apostolic, claiming instead that the CC was essentially founded my a mixing of church and state at around the time on Constantine, or later. at least this is what i have heard from a few Protestants.

but what i’ve found is that the position of “Bishop of Rome” does of course have apostolic roots, even so do the Bishopries of other major cities, like Antioch, Jerusalem, and other cities of importance in ancient Christianity.

the importance of the Bishopry of Rome can be seen from early in the Christian tradition, but the evolution of this position from simply “bishop of a city” to something much greater and more authorotative is something which developed over decades and centuries. the apostolic succession is certainly there, but the significance of the position is something which can be argued to have developed and emerged, and not been immediately recognized from A.D. 33.

i’ve also noticed that many Orthodox and Catholic practices are very similar. the veneration of Mary and Saints, liturgical practices, shared prayers or prayer variations, and many other things. certainly there are many distinction, both between Catholics, the Orthodox churches, and from Orthodox church to Orthodox church. but there are many similarities, including the apostolic succession of respective bishops in key cities and communities.

might it be appropriate to call the RCC “Latin Orthodoxy”?

what is clear is that various Orthodox traditions simply did not suddenly break off and become immediatly distinct from the Latin Church tradition in the aftermath of or during various councils (like Calcedon), but that these churches already had their own unique lines of succession, centers of learning, theologians, revered patriarchs, traditions, and theology.

what do you think of this idea? Catholics and Orthodox alike.
 
And we Anglicans, are we to now be the “English Orthodox”?
this is just something i’ve been considering for a few days now, and wanted to run it by Catholics and non-Catholics here.

many Protestants argue that the Catholic Church has no right to claimn itself as any kind of original church, or as apostolic, claiming instead that the CC was essentially founded my a mixing of church and state at around the time on Constantine, or later. at least this is what i have heard from a few Protestants.

but what i’ve found is that the position of “Bishop of Rome” does of course have apostolic roots, even so do the Bishopries of other major cities, like Antioch, Jerusalem, and other cities of importance in ancient Christianity.

the importance of the Bishopry of Rome can be seen from early in the Christian tradition, but the evolution of this position from simply “bishop of a city” to something much greater and more authorotative is something which developed over decades and centuries. the apostolic succession is certainly there, but the significance of the position is something which can be argued to have developed and emerged, and not been immediately recognized from A.D. 33.

i’ve also noticed that many Orthodox and Catholic practices are very similar. the veneration of Mary and Saints, liturgical practices, shared prayers or prayer variations, and many other things. certainly there are many distinction, both between Catholics, the Orthodox churches, and from Orthodox church to Orthodox church. but there are many similarities, including the apostolic succession of respective bishops in key cities and communities.

might it be appropriate to call the RCC “Latin Orthodoxy”?

what is clear is that various Orthodox traditions simply did not suddenly break off and become immediatly distinct from the Latin Church tradition in the aftermath of or during various councils (like Calcedon), but that these churches already had their own unique lines of succession, centers of learning, theologians, revered patriarchs, traditions, and theology.

what do you think of this idea? Catholics and Orthodox alike.
 
I think the OP has stumbled across the definition of Particular Churches 👍.

I don’t think term Latin Orthodoxy will fly well, but the idea behind it is orthodox (sorry, couldn’t help it).
 
And we Anglicans, are we to now be the “English Orthodox”?
I think Anglicans need to define what orthodoxy is, before they can claim to be it.

As for Catholics, if you want to call yourself that go ahead. We’ll just go back to calling ourselves Roman Catholic, as we did before the Ottomans conquered the Romans. 🙂
 
I think Anglicans need to define what orthodoxy is, before they can claim to be it.

As for Catholics, if you want to call yourself that go ahead. We’ll just go back to calling ourselves Roman Catholic, as we did before the Ottomans conquered the Romans. 🙂
I am sure that there is a committee of earnest liberals somewhere working on that definition. You probably won’t want to see it.
 
Your very good question revolves around just what is “Orthodox”, Grace. To Rome, nothing that she does is the least bit unorthodox. From the point of view of the other churches not in union with Rome, however…well, “heterodox” is the nicest term that I’ve heard. 😛

As for my personal opinion, as you might guess I am somewhere in the middle. You are right that the current status of the Roman pontiff has evolved over time. I do not buy certain RC explanations/defenses such as deflecting by saying that the Orthodox are simply unaware of their own doctrinal developments, as though they have introduced something of comparable magnitude. As I seem to tell Muslims here often, if it wrong when group X does it, it is equally wrong when group Y does the same thing. But luckily, not everything that separates the Catholic and Orthodox churches is a matter of “innovations”, per se. Obviously, mere differences in practice have always existed across the Christian world. That’s why we should look at Rome’s theological positions to see if it possible to call the RC “Latin Orthodox”.

I think it is entirely possible for individuals within the Roman communion to be more or less orthodox in their private opinions, but as active union with Rome involves (for Latins) more than just passive assent to doctrines that are, to put it nicely, questionable in light of history, I would say that it is incorrect to say that the RC as a whole is some sort of Latin analogue to or expression of Orthodoxy as we know it.

Here’s some “Latin Orthodox” worship for you: Psalm 102 in Romanian 😉

Pax tecum.
 
And we Anglicans, are we to now be the “English Orthodox”?
no. the Orthodox Churches all claim Apostolic succession, through Apostles like Bartholomew, Thomas, Jude, etc.

the Anglican Church split away from the RCC at a very specific point of time, and can not be called Orthodox or Apostolic in that sense.

any more than Lutherans could be called “German Orthodox”.
 
I think the OP has stumbled across the definition of Particular Churches 👍.

I don’t think term Latin Orthodoxy will fly well, but the idea behind it is orthodox (sorry, couldn’t help it).
it’s just something i’ve been thinking of.

the Orthodox and CC churches really have a lot in common. all are Apostolic, have their own unique and very ancient rites, traditions, ways of organizing clergy hierarchy, prayers, art, liturgies, etc., and all of these above mentioned things evolved over time, to become the sacred tradition of those various churches.

there are many theological points they agree upon, and many they do not. then again, Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy has a lot that seems to divide them theologically and culturally, too.

Dzheremi ~

i agree about the theology, and it’s not merely or simply a matter of traditions. obviously the Filioque is one issue of theological contention, and i’d personally side with the Orthodox on that matter. others exist and abound, and while one can argue that the CC has always taught what is right, while others have deviated, it could also be argued that others have continued to believe what is right, while the CC has introduced many innovations.
 
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