Latin Pauline Mass

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ravenonthecross

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Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon (Sermons are a given, to be in the vernacular folks) given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated---- Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
 
I saw that since given all sorts of folks were making hoopla about the masses. So I’d figured, I’d put in my word.😃 No disparaging the NO. Only folks who’d want such a mass, please post. If you don’t okay, then. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, anyways.👍
 
ravenonthecross said:
Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. A revised lectionary to follow the calender of liturgical life according to the 1962 lectionary, with perhaps the regular Tridentine Mass-lectionary be used complete as is with only an appended appropriate Old Testament Reading, in perhaps an alternating in the three year cycle as Year A instead of being divided amongst three different liturgical years? All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
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I’ve been. This is what groups like the Oratorians, the Society of St. John Cantius, St. Agnes Church in Minnesota, Assumption Grottoe and a few others do. Yes it can be beautiful, and I would probably go if given the chance, and that the Novus Ordo develops towards this is something to hope and pray for; however I stand firm in my opinion that a Novus Ordo celebrated with in Latin with all the “bells and smells” is not the same as the Tridentine Mass. These things are nice and serve to heighten the beauty of the Mass, yet they are secondary aspects of the Liturgy.

If I had to choose between a Novus Ordo like the one you described and a Tridentine Mass celebrated in vernacular, at a versus populum Altar, in an ugly modern church, with the priest wearing those awful felt vestments, and such things as female Altar servers and terrible music, I would attend the Tridentine Mass. Not that I would approve of any of what I just described, since the Mass of Ages deserved far better then that, but no matter how much you dress up the Novus Ordo it will never be the Tridentine Mass. No matter how much spice you cover a hamburger patty with, it is still not steak.
 
My Priest said that he used to say the Mass of Paul VI in Latin. He said he stopped because no one else was doing it and that there wasn’t really a great demand for it.

He now occasionally says the Tridentine Mass but doesn’t do it every week because we have a few priests who say it.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
My Priest said that he used to say the Mass of Paul VI in Latin. He said he stopped because no one else was doing it and that there wasn’t really a great demand for it.
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Very typical response. If priests were only into doing things that were in great demand, they’d be saying nothing but the Spanish, Polish, and Vietnamese Mass. I think people need to take a look at the larger picture and do whatever it takes to bring about more catholicism (universality) into their lives. We’ve had enough division already. But that’s me.
 
It is not just about the Latin. The Tridentine Mass has more depth in its prayers, it points toward the sacrificial nature of the Mass better than the Pauline Mass, and it is handled much more reverently in other respects as well.

Also, I think someone else pointed out the matter of altar girls, vestments etc. . . that have become the norm in the Pauline Mass.
 
Though Latin Pauline Mass can be celebrated reverently and solemnly, it still going to be a New Order of Mass. Compare to the Traditional Latin Mass which was celebrated by many popes, and attended by many saints we recognized today, is still going to be traditional. An analogy for NOM, a wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf though in sheep’s clothing.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo
 
I would go to the mass as described by the first poster and enjoy it. I was a teenager and daily mass goer when the NOM was first used so the changes took some getting used to. Nevertheless, it is the same sacrifice and sacrament. My question is: would you go to the tridentine mass if everything was exactly the same except it was done in a really faithful english translation??? Why or why not? If there was a group of eople speaking latin today, it would be their vernacular!
 
I agree with Caesar. That is why I hope the Vatican doesn’t change the 1962 missal.
 
ravenonthecross said:
Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon (Sermons are a given, to be in the vernacular folks) given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated---- Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
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Nope, sorry, no matter how much you try you cannot turn the Pauline into the Traditional unless you change the prayers themselves and the attitude of the congregations. Besides what are you going to do with all the unemployed extraordinary ministers that would result?
 
ravenonthecross said:
Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon (Sermons are a given, to be in the vernacular folks) given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated---- Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
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Count me in absolutely.
ClaireS said:
I would go to the mass as described by the first poster and enjoy it. I was a teenager and daily mass goer when the NOM was first used so the changes took some getting used to. Nevertheless, it is the same sacrifice and sacrament. My question is: would you go to the tridentine mass if everything was exactly the same except it was done in a really faithful english translation??? Why or why not? If there was a group of eople speaking latin today, it would be their vernacular!
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Well, if that was the only option other that a lack-of-reverence NO, then yes. But I would rather have a Missal of 1962 Mass (which by definition is in Latin) as my first choice, the Mass raven invited us to as my second and this option as my third.

In either the NO or OF Mass, there is a lot lost in translation.
Caesar said:
I stand firm in my opinion that a Novus Ordo celebrated with in Latin with all the “bells and smells” is not the same as the Tridentine Mass. These things are nice and serve to heighten the beauty of the Mass, yet they are secondary aspects of the Liturgy.

If I had to choose between a Novus Ordo like the one you described and a Tridentine Mass celebrated in vernacular, at a versus populum Altar, in an ugly modern church, with the priest wearing those awful felt vestments, and such things as female Altar servers and terrible music, I would attend the Tridentine Mass.
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No they are not the same but difference does not equate to heirarchy. One is not better than the other.

I would make the exact oposite choice if given those two. For me the better Mass would be the one I can attend and participate in with appropriate reverence and attention. Your Ugly Betty version would not work for me at all. 😃
 
the reason, guys and gals why I posted this, is because, I’m anxious for either a latin Novus Ordo or a TLM. I’ve got neither. I guess a regular TLM would be okay, but considering I’ve never been able to get to one. I’ve said so many times in numerous other threads, that I’d prefer either a Latin Novus Ordo—St. Agnes style, or a reverent Elizabethan English emass. Either way, my soul craves something as reverence that’s is normally found when either one of theses masses are celebrated. Just being able to go to a reverent Latin Novus Ordo, or Latin Tridentine mass would be good for me, for the rest of my life, provided that I always had one to go to.
In short, I crave reverence, solemnity, and transcendence in the mass. All the possibilities I mentioned, could potentially encompass this. I just pray that something in such a manner, as what I hoped in my thought above occurs. Odds are, that if a reverent Elizabethan Tridentine Missal were to come into play, it’d be the Traditional Anglican Catholics in the “Traditional Anglican Communion” who’d bring bring it to the Catholic Church, provided that they unite with Rome in the near future.
 
ravenonthecross said:
Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon (Sermons are a given, to be in the vernacular folks) given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated---- Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
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While I agree that the NOM and TLM are not the same (click here for a good comparison) many of the prayers are included in both, albeit slightly modified here and there (e.g. the confiteor). Honestly while I would go to a TLM first a beautiful NOM celebrated as Ravenonthecross described would be a good second.

Catholig
 
So, if we are going to ask questions, let’s throw another log on the fire: for a minute let us suppose that St John, the Gospel writer, were to come back and celebrate the Mass according to what he was suesused to - it is highly debatable that the rubrics were anywhere near as developed as the OF, let alone the EF - and he could celebrated it in whatever language the Holy Spirit chose to make available - how would you then rank the three?

Or could you even identify the Mass?
 
While I agree that the NOM and TLM are not the same (click here for a good comparison) many of the prayers are included in both, albeit slightly modified here and there (e.g. the confiteor). Honestly while I would go to a TLM first a beautiful NOM celebrated as Ravenonthecross described would be a good second.
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I’ve just read the comparison. The prayers of the Tridentine Mass are much nicer. The intercession of the Saints and the Virgin is much holds a far greater place in the old Mass. The old Mass is also more biblical; the priest quotes from more psalms etc.

Everyone should read this document.
 
ravenonthecross said:
Would anyone if given the chance attend reverent Latin Mass with copious amounts of incense, celebrated Ad Orientem, with Gregorian chant, polyphony, or orchestral music pieces for the mass composed by the likes of Beethoven, Bach, or Mozart, withe Priest, deacon in traditional vestments and choir in traditional style garb. With appropriate amounts of prayer, silence, and solemnity with communion on the tongue via kneeling at communion rail. The Sermon (Sermons are a given, to be in the vernacular folks) given by the priest to instruct the faithful in Catholic doctrine and teachings. All this as a solemnly sung and reverently celebrated---- Latin Novus Ordo High Mass. Any takers?:newidea:
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Of course, absolutely. In fact, as someone already said, they exist. Never in my parish, unfortunately - I always seem to get ugly churches and Oregon Catholic Press scripted musical selections. ~sigh~ 😛

I do sometimes wonder, though, if the Novus Ordo (or Ordinary Form) had been implemented properly and masses celebrated like this from the beginning if we would be having these arguments about the TLM “vs” the NO.
 
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