Latin phrase for wedidng band

[GorgerCracker]

A woman would refer to herself as tua… the adjective pertaining specifically and exclusively to a female person…
but this isn’t words spoken, but words that are worn by somebody… so doesn’t that make it his label, and so he would be wearing a distinctly exclusively feminine identifying label?
If she gave him a t-shirt that said tua, he would be wearing a distinctly and exclusively feminine identifying label…
Is the engraving on the inside or the outside? Maybe if the engraving is on the inside, then maybe it doesn’t count as a label and it’s ok to be exclusively feminine.
Totus Tuus could refer to either gender, and so if it ends up worn as his label, he’s still good to go because it’s not a distinctly and exclusively feminine label.

But doesn’t she want the feminine in order to say that she is his? Also, the masculine does not refer to either gender… She would have to say “tota tua ego sum.” But it seems more proper to say it to God.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Nemo nisi mors means “no one except death.” And calling death a someone makes it sound like you’re personifying him as the god of death. Also, there is no verb, so this phrase isn’t really a complete thought. “Nihil” is the word that comes to mind for nothing.

Becaue Catholcis never personified death did they?

Ever hear of the grim reaper? The angel of death? He is in the bible and Catholics personified him all through the middle ages for example in the dance of death.

Another example, here is a painting from a church of death playing chess:

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipe....jpg/200px-Taby_kyrka_Death_playing_chess.jpg

 

[GorgerCracker]

Becaue Catholcis never personified death did they?

Ever hear of the grim reaper? The angel of death? He is in the bible and Catholics personified him all through the middle ages for example in the dance of death.

Another example, here is a painting from a church of death playing chess:

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipe....jpg/200px-Taby_kyrka_Death_playing_chess.jpg

Well, if she wants to reference pagan gods on her wedding ring, I certainly don’t care. But it’s not very Catholic, and she can certainly do better. Also, even if the word “mors” did imply the grim reaper or the angel of death-- which it doesn’t-- why would she want that on a wedding ring? Personifying death is hardly romantic.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Well, if she wants to reference pagan gods on her wedding ring, I certainly don’t care. But it’s not very Catholic, and she can certainly do better. Also, even if the word “mors” did imply the grim reaper or the angel of death-- which it doesn’t-- why would she want that on a wedding ring? Personifying death is hardly romantic.

I just told you it is Catholic, it has nothing to do with pagan gods, it doesn’t necesarily have anything to do with personifying death, but even if it did that wouldn’t be a problem becaue Catholics have done that as is well docuemtned throughout the medieval period.

You would have it on your wedding ring for the same reason the Catholic King John III of Sweden had it engraved on the wedding rings with which he was married to his Catholic Polish bride Queen Katarina Jagellonica.

It is a wonderful statement of lifelong devotion to one another and mirrors the wedding vows made and the Catholic understanding that marriage lasts until the death of one of the spouses.

 

[GorgerCracker]

I just told you it is Catholic, it has nothing to do with pagan gods.

And I am telling you how it would appear to an Ancient Roman. It pretty much has to be more modern because it is appallingly weird and bad Latin. But if she wants the crummy incomplete sentence on her husband’s ring, I don’t care. It doesn’t mean what people were saying it meant, so I pointed that out. And there are plenty of really wonderful romantic and religious quotes that she could put on the ring that would also be good Latin. Or she could put a quote from the Bible in Koine Greek. That would be truly awesome and very beautiful.

 

[GorgerCracker]

I just told you it is Catholic, it has nothing to do with pagan gods, it doesn’t necesarily have anything to do with personifying death, but even if it did that wouldn’t be a problem becaue Catholics have done that as is well docuemtned throughout the medieval period.

You would have it on your wedding ring for the same reason the Catholic King John III of Sweden had it engraved on the wedding rings with which he was married to his Catholic Polish bride Queen Katarina Jagellonica.

It is a wonderful statement of lifelong devotion to one another and mirrors the wedding vows made and the Catholic understanding that marriage lasts until the death of one of the spouses.

It was lame when she did it too.

One could express the wonderful statement in better and complete Latin. End of story.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

It was lame when she did it too.

One could express the wonderful statement in better and complete Latin. End of story.

You really are an ignorant, uncharitable man aren’t you, the lady who first mentioned it earlier said she and her husband got this done on their wedding rings and you have now just called them and their wedding rings lame.

 

[Rach620]

My finger is so tiny that I had no space to engrave anything but our wedding date and hubby’s name, and his had the same. If we had space, we would have engraved Bonum Te Esse, which means “it is good that you exist” or more literally, perhaps, “your being/existence is a good”.

Josef Pieper (a 20th century Catholic Thomist philosopher) said that this is what we mean when we say “I love you” to another person (I think this was in his book “Faith, Hope and Love”). Total self-gift that affirms the other as good, as a gift from God…talk about the meaning of married love!

God bless you as you approach your wedding day!

 

[BrokenFortress]

Hehe sorry, didn’t mean to start a debate! I don’t think I will put anything about death on the ring, only because I believe that death won’t separate us. I believe we’ll still be together in Heaven, differently than how my friends and I will be together. If he died, I would not remarry, but that’s just me!

Anyways, since I’ve always liked the Ubi Caritas I may get that if there’s enough room. I first need to find a place to engrave and see how much they have room for. Well, first I need to get the ring haha! But this is something I’ve been thinking of since we got engaged. And not knowing any Latin, it’s hard. But I became Catholic after meeting him, and it’s something important to both of us, so I want to have something Catholic, and have the ring be more personal than just what anyone else can pick up

 

[former_Catholic]

But doesn’t she want the feminine in order to say that she is his? Also, the masculine does not refer to either gender… She would have to say “tota tua ego sum.” But it seems more proper to say it to God.

If it were a t-shirt printed with the words “I am (an exclusively feminine person) and yours”
it would look weird for a guy to wear because to onlookers it would label him as the “I”
OK, it’s not a t-shirt, but a ring… so is the writing on the inside or the outside of the ring?
If it’s on the outside and he is wearing it, you wouldn’t want it to read “I am an exclusively feminine person and yours” even though she was referring to herself when she gave it to him.
Because he is wearing it out in public, you’d want to use “I am yours” in the male and “mixed company” form so that he is not stuck with wearing an exclusively feminine label in public.
If the writing is on the inside, an exclusively feminine label wouldn’t particularly matter because it isn’t in public view.

Ubi caritas is probably ideal. It’s short and to the point, and it ought to fit easily on any ring nicely and easy to read. When they get long, they are so much harder to read.

 

[GorgerCracker]

You really are an ignorant, uncharitable man aren’t you, the lady who first mentioned it earlier said she and her husband got this done on their wedding rings and you have now just called them and their wedding rings lame.

My understanding is that ad hominem attacks are not allowed on these forums. I am also not a man.

If they are happy with the saying, then I am happy for them. I happen to dislike it. Especially since, by saying “no one except death will separate us” it doesn’t exclude quite mundane things from separating them. Financial difficulties, pettiness, even a whim could cause their divorce without going against the promise on the ring. If it said, “nothing except death will separate us,” that would be better because it would imply that nothing, no person, no circumstance, no disaster, and no accident short of death can separate them. Nothing at all, in fact. Very romantic and far more in the spirit of sacramental marriage than just “no person” being able to separate them.

 

[GorgerCracker]

If it were a t-shirt printed with the words “I am (an exclusively feminine person) and yours”
it would look weird for a guy to wear because to onlookers it would label him as the “I”
OK, it’s not a t-shirt, but a ring… so is the writing on the inside or the outside of the ring?
If it’s on the outside and he is wearing it, you wouldn’t want it to read “I am an exclusively feminine person and yours” even though she was referring to herself when she gave it to him.
Because he is wearing it out in public, you’d want to use “I am yours” in the male and “mixed company” form so that he is not stuck with wearing an exclusively feminine label in public.
If the writing is on the inside, an exclusively feminine label wouldn’t particularly matter because it isn’t in public view.

Ubi caritas is probably ideal. It’s short and to the point, and it ought to fit easily on any ring nicely and easy to read. When they get long, they are so much harder to read.

I disagree with you because, being a heterosexual male, he would want his wife declaring that she is his in the feminine. Otherwise the three people who will read the ring and understand it may think that he has a male significant other. You are entitled to your opinion of course so please don’t get mad. I can kind of see your point of view.

I like the Ubi caritas a lot too. It would be a nice daily reminder of their faith and love for each other.

 

[GorgerCracker]

Hehe sorry, didn’t mean to start a debate! I don’t think I will put anything about death on the ring, only because I believe that death won’t separate us. I believe we’ll still be together in Heaven, differently than how my friends and I will be together. If he died, I would not remarry, but that’s just me!

Anyways, since I’ve always liked the Ubi Caritas I may get that if there’s enough room. I first need to find a place to engrave and see how much they have room for. Well, first I need to get the ring haha! But this is something I’ve been thinking of since we got engaged. And not knowing any Latin, it’s hard. But I became Catholic after meeting him, and it’s something important to both of us, so I want to have something Catholic, and have the ring be more personal than just what anyone else can pick up

I didn’t mean to get into a debate, but apparently it doesn’t matter how much Latin I’ve read: I am not allowed to have an opinion and, if I dislike “nemo nisi mors,” I am clearly anathema.

I hope you have room for the “ubi caritas” on your rings. That’s a very nice quote.

 

[former_Catholic]

If they are happy with the saying, then I am happy for them. I happen to dislike it. Especially since, by saying “no one except death will separate us” it doesn’t exclude quite mundane things from separating them. Financial difficulties, pettiness, even a whim could cause their divorce without going against the promise on the ring. If it said, “nothing except death will separate us,” that would be better because it would imply that nothing, no person, no circumstance, no disaster, and no accident short of death can separate them. Nothing at all, in fact. Very romantic and far more in the spirit of sacramental marriage than just “no person” being able to separate them.

I think your points are good ones.
The whole “until death” or “none but death” or “nothing but death” thing personally gives me the chills.

His murder of his wife and kids, followed by his own suicide in that house down by the market some years ago was apparently accompanied by him screaming at her that over her dead body would she ever be allowed to leave him. It was all over the news after the fact that the neighbors had heard that just before the gunshots. No one but death… and least of all she… would ever be allowed to separate her from her addict husband. He apparently shot the kids and lit the house on fire before he shot himself. No one but death…nothing but death…
They leveled the burnt rubble with a bulldozer after the police investigation. The police and the firefighters were horrified by the scene they found.

I look at a ring engraved by a king about death parting him from his wife, and likewise end up thinking that would be all to easy for a king to arrange in those days… wouldn’t it? Especially when royal marriages were arranged to consolidate and guarantee one’s power and lands and political alliances… not the functionality of one’s family…
But she had to be stuck with that little reminder of death on her hand nonetheless… and of how easily that might be *arranged for her *should she ever displease the king.
I just don’t see it as loving and romantic. It gives me the chills.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

I think your points are good ones.
The whole “until death” or “none but death” or “nothing but death” thing personally gives me the chills.

His murder of his wife and kids, followed by his own suicide in that house down by the market some years ago was apparently accompanied by him screaming at her that over her dead body would she ever be allowed to leave him. It was all over the news after the fact that the neighbors had heard that just before the gunshots. No one but death… and least of all she… would ever be allowed to separate her from her addict husband. He apparently shot the kids and lit the house on fire before he shot himself. No one but death…nothing but death…
They leveled the burnt rubble with a bulldozer after the police investigation. The police and the firefighters were horrified by the scene they found.

I look at a ring engraved by a king about death parting him from his wife, and likewise end up thinking that would be all to easy for a king to arrange in those days… wouldn’t it? Especially when royal marriages were arranged to consolidate and guarantee one’s power and lands and political alliances… not the functionality of one’s family…
But she had to be stuck with that little reminder of death on her hand nonetheless… and of how easily that might be *arranged for her *should she ever displease the king.
I just don’t see it as loving and romantic. It gives me the chills.

Does “until death do us part” in the vows also give you chills?

 

[Red_Meg]

Soooo… avoiding the death question entirely…

One phrase I always pleasantly associate with a new marriage and the establishment of a new family and household is from Joshua 24:15-- “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” The Vulgate renders it thus: ego autem et domus mea serviemus Domino.

It’s rather long. But the key part of the phrase is: “We will serve the Lord,” which in Latin, in its blessed compactness, is Serviemus Domino.

Margaret

 

[tee_eff_em]

:twocents: If anyone is going to object to the personification of Death as a “pagan god”, he might just as well object to the wedding ring itself – The pagans made use of them lo-ong before there were Catholics.

If you think something short and classical might do, I’m not sure anyone ever said it better than [the pagan] Catullus:

*Vivamus atque amemus *-- Let us live and let us love

tee

 

[GorgerCracker]

:twocents: If anyone is going to object to the personification of Death as a “pagan god”, he might just as well object to the wedding ring itself – The pagans made use of them lo-ong before there were Catholics.

If you think something short and classical might do, I’m not sure anyone ever said it better than [the pagan] Catullus:

*Vivamus atque amemus *-- Let us live and let us love

tee

Pagans wore clothes too, and I don’t object to wearing those either.

Give it a rest, will you? I was just saying what it reminded me of and one reason I wouldn’t want that inscription on my wedding ring.

She doesn’t want something pagan. She wants something Christian. She said so several times…

 

[former_Catholic]

Does “until death do us part” in the vows also give you chills?

Of course not. What gives me chills is that someone would choose to focus on being parted by death as the single most salient point of their marriage such that they would choose that as their banner and motto above all other sentiments and considerations; that is what gives me the chills. It is not about focusing on sharing their connection to God. It is about clinging to their connection to one another.

It proclaims their connection to each other as their highest focus and intention of their marriage.
There can be big problems and issues when people’s highest focus and intention in a marriage is their connection to one another rather than on their connection to God.

 

[ac_claire]

Nemo nisi mors means “no one except death.” And calling death a someone makes it sound like you’re personifying him as the god of death. Also, there is no verb, so this phrase isn’t really a complete thought. “Nihil” is the word that comes to mind for nothing.

Nihil nisi mors nos separabit (Nothing except death will part us.)

“Nihil nisi mors nos separabit” may be technically the more correct Latin, but the traditional phrase is “Nemo nisi mors”, translated to *nothing *but death. Even though Nemo means “no one”. It’s just how the phrase goes, languages are weird like that. I could think of a hundred different examples of that kind of thing in the English language.

Google nemo nisi mors and wedding rings, you’ll see the world is full of “lame idiots” who’ve engraved it on their rings.

I did a double take on that one too…“no one but death” (you’re kidding!)… But then I figured that the entire quotation must be just too long to fit on any one ring, and so one spouse probably got the first half: “no one but death” while the other spouse probably got the second half “shall part us” Is that how people do it? Fingers are slender, but quotations can be long… so do they split them up between the rings?

We only did the first part, nemo nisi mors, because again…that’s the traditional phrase; I suppose the rest is implied. Actually we didn’t even have enough space for that so we did NNM.

If they are happy with the saying, then I am happy for them. I happen to dislike it. Especially since, by saying “no one except death will separate us” it doesn’t exclude quite mundane things from separating them. Financial difficulties, pettiness, even a whim could cause their divorce without going against the promise on the ring. If it said, “nothing except death will separate us,” that would be better because it would imply that nothing, no person, no circumstance, no disaster, and no accident short of death can separate them. Nothing at all, in fact. Very romantic and far more in the spirit of sacramental marriage than just “no person” being able to separate them.

Oh come on, it’s a wedding ring inscription inspired by the Catholic vows, it’s not a prenuptual agreement! The phrase on a ring does actually *mean *“nothing except death…” even though the Latin is technically, as you said, a bit off.