Latin phrase for wedidng band

[jilly4ski]

Yep, I’m not sure I get why it’s hard to accept that the literal translation was in fact the intended meaning of the thing. After all, whoever coined it chose nemo instead of the more obvious choice of nihil. They must have done so because they liked or wanted to say no one, and it makes the most sense to translate it with no one as the intended meaning if you want to be true to the original writer’s tastes.

That’s how I see it anyway. But maybe only us Latin students care what the words actually mean.

Indeed would not translate it any differently than its literal meaning, but what I was trying to point out, was that someone might use nemo instead of nihil because it fit better in a poem or it was a common “turn of phrase” even if the author didn’t purposefully intend to personify death. I have no idea if that is the case for this particular phrase, I was just saying it is possible. (Again I would not translate “nemo” as “nothing” but with enough historical and contextual evidence a scholar could potentially come to that conclusion).

 

[GorgerCracker]

Indeed would not translate it any differently than its literal meaning, but what I was trying to point out, was that someone might use nemo instead of nihil because it fit better in a poem or it was a common “turn of phrase” even if the author didn’t purposefully intend to personify death. I have no idea if that is the case for this particular phrase, I was just saying it is possible. (Again I would not translate “nemo” as “nothing” but with enough historical and contextual evidence a scholar could potentially come to that conclusion).

Well, if there were any evidence, then one might come to that conclusion. I can see what you mean. No such evidence has been forthcoming on this thread… But that’s another matter.

The more we talk about it the more I’m convinced that the original intent of this message was to promise fidelity. If you take out the “except death” for a moment, you are left with “no one will part us.” That makes it sound like the person is saying " I will be faithful and I trust that you will be faithful too." So you have that message along with the poetic personification of death. At any rate, looking at the words as they are, that is the message I glean from them, so unless anyone can show documented evidence of a different traditional translation, “no one will part us except death” seems by far the most apt translation from the actual words.

 

[ac_claire]

The more we talk about it the more I’m convinced that the original intent of this message was to promise fidelity. If you take out the “except death” for a moment, you are left with “no one will part us.” That makes it sound like the person is saying " I will be faithful and I trust that you will be faithful too." So you have that message along with the poetic personification of death. At any rate, looking at the words as they are, that is the message I glean from them, so unless anyone can show documented evidence of a different traditional translation, “no one will part us except death” seems by far the most apt translation from the actual words.

I don’t disagree with you here at all…

Good post My dh was looking over my shoulder and said “10 bucks its a girl arguing with a guy” He knows all about the “its chilly in here” really means “turn on the heater” turn or phrase.

This phrase could “mean” different things depending on what context it appears. If you read “nemo nisi mors” in a medical text, you probably wouldn’t translate it “no one” but if in a poem or song you probably would. Does that make sense to people?

Indeed would not translate it any differently than its literal meaning, but what I was trying to point out, was that someone might use nemo instead of nihil because it fit better in a poem or it was a common “turn of phrase” even if the author didn’t purposefully intend to personify death. I have no idea if that is the case for this particular phrase, I was just saying it is possible. (Again I would not translate “nemo” as “nothing” but with enough historical and contextual evidence a scholar could potentially come to that conclusion).

Makes perfect sense to me. Well said. IMO, all this is about is some people are insisting that the literal, textbook translation is the only valid way to view this phrase and others are arguing that the more traditional/poetic translation of the phrase (as an inscription) is also valid. “Valid” in a way that can win a Latin argument? No. But we’re dealing with the validity of opinions now which is pretty much inarguable. It’s like apples and oranges. It’s not going anywhere.

The more I think about it, the more I think the two translations basically mean the same thing. Some people don’t understand poetic language, and some people apparently think poetic language has no place in this argument, period. Which is weird to me, since we’re talking about inscriptions on wedding bands. Which is one of the most poetic things I can think of.

 

[BrokenFortress]

I think it’s funny that this is my most “successful” thread here on CAF. Most of my other threads with questions quickly die out. Glad I finally found something for people to talk about…

But in response to my OP, I’ve found out that I can fit the entire first phrase of Ubi Caritas onto the ring, so I’m going with that.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

I’m assuming that is the correct Latin for that phrase, although I was looking it up and it looks like some translations have it slightly different but don’t mention love, so I’m going to go with that one.

I’m also hoping to have that hymn incorporated into our Mass.

 

[GorgerCracker]

I don’t disagree with you here at all…

Hey, it finally happened. We agree on something.

Makes perfect sense to me. Well said. IMO, all this is about is some people are insisting that the literal, textbook translation is the only valid way to view this phrase and others are arguing that the more traditional/poetic translation of the phrase (as an inscription) is also valid. “Valid” in a way that can win a Latin argument? No. But we’re dealing with the validity of opinions now which is pretty much inarguable. It’s like apples and oranges. It’s not going anywhere.

The more I think about it, the more I think the two translations basically mean the same thing. Some people don’t understand poetic language, and some people apparently think poetic language has no place in this argument, period. Which is weird to me, since we’re talking about inscriptions on wedding bands. Which is one of the most poetic things I can think of.

I’m resigned to the fact that your mind doesn’t make fine distinctions. The two translations are totally different. “No one” just excludes people from separating you-- not things or non-persons. “Nothing” excludes everything from separating you. Obviously, fine distinctions are wasted on you, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[former_Catholic]

:
But in response to my OP, I’ve found out that I can fit the entire first phrase of Ubi Caritas onto the ring, so I’m going with that.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

And the whole thing fits? Sweet!
Is it going on the inside or the outside of the ring?
That one is nice enough to go on the outside, for sure…

 

[BrokenFortress]

It’s going on the inside. He wants the most simple ring, so this was one way for me to personalize it as there isn’t much variation in guy’s rings when you want nothing on the outside of it!

 

[ac_claire]

But in response to my OP, I’ve found out that I can fit the entire first phrase of Ubi Caritas onto the ring, so I’m going with that.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

I’m assuming that is the correct Latin for that phrase, although I was looking it up and it looks like some translations have it slightly different but don’t mention love, so I’m going to go with that one.

I think it’s beautiful. Very surprised that the whole thing will fit though! Are you getting it on both rings or just his?

 

[BrokenFortress]

Just his, and he doesn’t know what I’m putting on there either.

 

[former_Catholic]

It’s going on the inside. He wants the most simple ring, so this was one way for me to personalize it as there isn’t much variation in guy’s rings when you want nothing on the outside of it!

It’s amazing what they can do with engraving these days with the new CNC and laser technologies. Sigh… that’s just so lovely…
In the old days of diamond cutting blades the real difference between one inscription and another was trying to fit it onto a ring without having to wrap 50 yards of silk thread around it to keep it on one’s finger!
I’m all for men having the most simple wedding rings. They collect far less axle grease, plumber’s putty, and latex paint and are infinitely safer to wear and easier to clean. My husband bought me a new plain wedding ring at my request shortly into our marriage when I got tired of digging the axle grease, plumber’s putty, and latex paint out of mine! Diamonds and axle grease just do not mix…

 

[BrokenFortress]

Just thought I’d update the thread since I got his ring in the mail today, I went with an online retailer, and it’s what I recommend for something like this as it’s exactly the same as in the stores but 1/5 the price.

And I am in love with the ring. He gave me such a specific want that I was kind of upset that I didn’t really get to pick his ring out. He wanted simple, and brushed. Well, there aren’t a whole lot of differences between plain brushed bands. I ended up finding a site where they had a different brush, called stone, it’s a more rugged brush and I love it. I didn’t take a picture of the finish, but it’s perfect. I know he’s going to love it

So here is the inscription, and there would have been room for probably two more words in there too.

 

[former_Catholic]

I know he’s going to love it
So here is the inscription, and there would have been room for probably two more words in there too.

Wow. Who wouldn’t love it? It’s the manly Binford Tool of wedding rings… with its soft sentimental side on the inside. It’s equally good for out on the town at a nice restaurant, working on the car, doing a presentation at work, and manning the barbecue…
love it!