Latin question..

[Monica4316]

It would be very good to look at the Greek… I just thought it might be easier to find someone who knows Latin here, and the Latin I can read a tiny bit - Greek words I can’t read at all. If someone has any information on the Greek though that would be great!

I think maybe I should rephrase my question though… Maybe the more relevant point is not whether it means fornication and adultery, but how that phrase is linked to the phrase about marriage. In Catholic doctrine though there shouldn’t be any link. I hope it makes sense what I’m saying. The phrase “except for adultery” would be as if in parentheses.

 

[Eliazer]

The Vulgate was declared infallible in the Council of Trent?

I understand that it was the authorized text, but that is a far cry from declaring the translation to be without error. Would you mind sharing a quote from the Council documents?

Instead of quoting it I reccomend to go to this post and read the quote from verbatim

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=194165
There he posted also the quote.

This is what he says in his post

"From the Council of Trent :

Quote:
Moreover, the same holy council considering that not a little advantage will accrue to the Church of God if it be made known which of all the Latin editions of the sacred books now in circulation is to be regarded as authentic, ordains and declares that the old Latin Vulgate Edition, which, in use for so many hundred years, has been approved by the Church, be in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions held as authentic, and that no one dare or presume under any pretext whatsoever to reject it.
catholic-forum.com/saints/trent04.htm

This means that the Vulgate can be used to support a point of view without being challenged as incorrect.

This does not mean that there are no errors of translation. It simply means that there are no errors of doctrine.

Verbum"

First before you read further I am very sorry the translation itself is not literal. As I thought But the Latin vulgate still is declared unquestiinable. Based on this quote from the Holy council. That was posted.

I am sorry for misleading on that part.

 

[Eliazer]

No.

Trent declared that the Vulgate was authentic…but it is only a mere translation of the original text. The inspired authors of the New Testament wrote in Greek.

Indeed, the Nova Vulgata, promulgated after the Second Vatican Council, is a correction of Saint Jerome’s translation, thanks to the advances in contemporary scripture scholarship, across a variety of disciplines.

The corrected Vulgate, the Nova Vulgata, is what is now used in the Roman Rite.

But again, recourse is properly to the original language…not looking at a translation into Latin.

Thank you I am sorry everyone about misleading. I really am and know it is a very delicate subjext.
I could only post what the Holy council of Trent posted up above but as Don Ruggero said clarifies everything.

 

[babochka]

It would be very good to look at the Greek… I just thought it might be easier to find someone who knows Latin here, and the Latin I can read a tiny bit - Greek words I can’t read at all. If someone has any information on the Greek though that would be great!

I think maybe I should rephrase my question though… Maybe the more relevant point is not whether it means fornication and adultery, but how that phrase is linked to the phrase about marriage. In Catholic doctrine though there shouldn’t be any link. I hope it makes sense what I’m saying. The phrase “except for adultery” would be as if in parentheses.

I hope somebody with more knowledge will step in here, but I’ll tell you what I have learned from other sources.

The Greek word used is porneia. Our word for pornography comes form the same root. It is a word that describes a wide variety of sexually immoral acts: fornication, adultery, and incest among them. It is used a number of times in the Bible and is translated differently, depending upon context. The New American Bible translates this word as “sexual immorality”, which is probably the broadest definition. Here is a link to a page that gives a synopsis of information from various concordances, which gives more information, as well as examples of when the word is used in scripture, as well as how it is translated into English in a few different versions (all Protestant). biblehub.com/greek/4202.htm

I can’t help much with the Latin. Hopefully, somebody else can help you out. I know we have some very knowledgeable posters here.

 

[poche]

I thought maybe someone here is more knowledgeable in Latin…

In Matthew, Our Lord talks about not divorcing “except for fornication”. The words for fornication and adultery in that text are different. Does anyone know what exactly this is referring to in the Latin?

Rather than the word in Latin I think what you really need to know is the meaning behind what Jesus was saying.what Jesus was saying was that in those circumstances where concubinage was being practiced and there was no real marriage that if the couple were to seperate then both of them would be free to contract a marriage with another partner.

 

[Eliazer]

Rather than the word in Latin I think what you really need to know is the meaning behind what Jesus was saying.what Jesus was saying was that in those circumstances where concubinage was being practiced and there was no real marriage that if the couple were to seperate then both of them would be free to contract a marriage with another partner.

No that is not what is saying. In this case it means separation. It is not open to intrepetations divorce is forbidden.
Yes there was concubunage but concubines did not marry. And in Christianity it is fobidden

 

[Augustine]

True. Then it was translated literarly to Latin in the Latin vulgata

Only πορνεία means any form of illicit sex, like prostitution (the current usage in Modern Greek), incest, adultery, masturbation or fornication, whereas fornicationem is just one form of illicit sex.

 

[Eliazer]

Only πορνεία means any form of illicit sex, like prostitution (the current usage in Modern Greek), incest, adultery, masturbation or fornication, whereas fornicationem is just one form of illicit sex.

Here is more in the subject by St. Thomas of Aquinas from The Summa Theologiæ of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920

newadvent.org/summa/5062.htm

 

[poche]

No that is not what is saying. In this case it means separation. It is not open to intrepetations divorce is forbidden.
Yes there was concubunage but concubines did not marry. And in Christianity it is fobidden

Yes, but it is not just the word but the meaning behind the word.