Latin Questions thread

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Catholig

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Well I decided to start this thread to ask a few questions - but maybe it can be used by others to ask their questions as well. Then we’ll all be fluent in Latin. 😉

My first and only question (for now) is - What case does the word following the verb miserere take? I’ve seen (for the 1st person singular) “miserere mei” and “miserere me”?

Catholig
 
Miserere, the (2nd person) singular imperative of the deponent verb misereor, misereri, misertus sum takes either the accusative or the genitive.

It is used with the accusative when it is taking a direct object:
miserere me, pity me! miseretur te, he pities you.

It is used with the genitive when it is taking an indirect object - not in the genitive of posession, but as far as I can see it must be the genitive of verbs of remembering and forgetting:
miserere mei, show/have pity for me (like meminit mei, he is mindful of me i.e. he remembers me).

misereor may be pity, have mercy etc and there is practically no difference between miserere me and miserere mei, and any subtlety is lost in translation because translating it as mercy, as we would want to do in prayers etc, means that both would come into english as ‘have mercy on me’.
:twocents:
 
Wow. And I was feeling proud of myself because I finally memorized the Our Father in latin.🤷
 
Some verbs in some languages can go with more than one noun case, such as in Polish of modern ones. They take different meanings then, as Trevelyan described.
 
Can I ask a question:

“Pax tibi et Ecclesiae Dei” was usually translated as ‘Peace to you and the Church of God’ but how do you translate “Pax tibi et Ecclesiae Dei abundet in cordibus nostris”? :confused:
 
patrick457 said:
Can I ask a question:

“Pax tibi et Ecclesiae Dei” was usually translated as ‘Peace to you and the Church of God’ but how do you translate “Pax tibi et Ecclesiae Dei abundet in cordibus nostris”? :confused:
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“Peace to you and God’s Church, may it abound in our hearts”.

Catholig
 
tee_eff_em said:
I like the Lewis and Lewis and Short dictionaries at the Perseus Project, [post=2538699]Latin Resources[/post].

tee
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Hi thanks a lot.
Is this perseus dictionary a latin-english dictionary?
Im having some troubles to find meanings from english to latin.
 
jimmy85 said:
Hey, does anyone know any good free latin dictionary or translator online?

I have found some good resources online in order to start learning some latin, however I need a dictionary or a translator online.

High-Frequency Latin Word

Latin Wikibooks
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I’ve found this one isn’t too bad. It will at least give you the gist of what’s being said:

translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Latin

(scroll down a little bit to the “inter-tran” box - you can’t see it when you first get to the page)
 
Catholig said:
“Peace to you and God’s Church, may it abound in our hearts”.

Catholig
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No, “May the peace to you and to the church of God [God’s church, o. k., too] abound in our hearts.”

Or, “May the peace you and the church of God [God’s church, o. k., too] have abound in our hearts.”
 
There was a chapter in a story (actually a comic book) called “Rosa Rubicundior, Lilia Candidior”. It was translated as “Redder than the Rose, Whiter than the Lily.”

My question is, isn’t that from something in Catholicism? I know red and white are associated with martyrdom and purity, as in the case of St. Maximilian Kolbe; they were the two beams Sr. Faustina saw emanating from Christ’s heart in her Divine Mercy vision. Does anyone happen to know if the phrase above is from something like that, and if not, where?

It’d just be too weird if Tite Kubo came up with it on his own.
 
Trevelyan said:
Miserere, the (2nd person) singular imperative of the deponent verb misereor, misereri, misertus sum takes either the accusative or the genitive.

It is used with the accusative when it is taking a direct object:
miserere me, pity me! miseretur te, he pities you.

It is used with the genitive when it is taking an indirect object - not in the genitive of posession, but as far as I can see it must be the genitive of verbs of remembering and forgetting:
miserere mei, show/have pity for me (like meminit mei, he is mindful of me i.e. he remembers me).

misereor may be pity, have mercy etc and there is practically no difference between miserere me and miserere mei, and any subtlety is lost in translation because translating it as mercy, as we would want to do in prayers etc, means that both would come into english as ‘have mercy on me’.
:twocents:
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Why miserere nobis? Nobis is either ablative or dative. It is not accusative nor genitive.
nos
nostri (-trum)
nobis
nos
nobis
 
richwmiller said:
Why miserere nobis? Nobis is either ablative or dative. It is not accusative nor genitive.
nos
nostri (-trum)
nobis
nos
nobis
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According to Collins’s *Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin, misereor *takes either the dative or genitive. Lewis’s Latin Dictionary says accusative, dative or genitive.

tee
 
Hastrman said:
There was a chapter in a story (actually a comic book) called “Rosa Rubicundior, Lilia Candidior”. It was translated as “Redder than the Rose, Whiter than the Lily.”

My question is, isn’t that from something in Catholicism? I know red and white are associated with martyrdom and purity, as in the case of St. Maximilian Kolbe; they were the two beams Sr. Faustina saw emanating from Christ’s heart in her Divine Mercy vision. Does anyone happen to know if the phrase above is from something like that, and if not, where?

It’d just be too weird if Tite Kubo came up with it on his own.
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A Google search linked the phrase with the third verse of a midieval poem called Veni, Veni, Venias from the Carmina Burana, a collection of 13th Century poems and songs about various subjects. It looks like a love poem.
 
Catholig said:
I’ve seen (for the 1st person singular) “miserere mei” and “miserere me”?
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This is something you can figure out with the Perseus Word Study Tool. See below. Searching for “mei” and “me” shows that “mei” is the genitive (possessive) form of the pronoun “ego,” and “me” is the ablative or accusative form.
Here are excellent resources:
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It is great you want to learn Latin. Read what the Baltimore Catechism says about Latin:
Q.
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  1. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?
    A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:
    • To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
    • That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
    • To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
Click to expand...
 
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