Latin Rite boring, HELP!

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AdriannaJean

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Hey Everyone,

I have been looking into Orthodox Christianity because some people close to me are Orthodox. What I have found is that the community is much more traditional and (sorry, no offense meant here) beautiful than the Latin Rite church I attend myself. It seems like they have preserved the majesty of the Old Church that the Latin Rite has lost while trying to seem more “hip” and “modern”. I love the Pope and couldn’t convert to Orthodoxy because I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church. Does anyone know of a Catholic rite that keeps the majesty in the mass, so to speak? Preferably one that I could find a church in Canada…
 
 
AdriannaJean said:
Hey Everyone,

I have been looking into Orthodox Christianity because some people close to me are Orthodox. What I have found is that the community is much more traditional and (sorry, no offense meant here) beautiful than the Latin Rite church I attend myself. It seems like they have preserved the majesty of the Old Church that the Latin Rite has lost while trying to seem more “hip” and “modern”. I love the Pope and couldn’t convert to Orthodoxy because I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church. Does anyone know of a Catholic rite that keeps the majesty in the mass, so to speak? Preferably one that I could find a church in Canada…
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Well, there are many different Rites n the Catholic Church.

**Syrian Rite[ANTIOCHIAN]
Syriac
**Malankarese **
Armenian
Chaldean
**Syro–Malabarese **
Maronite

Byzantine family Rite
Albanian.
Belarussian/Byelorussian
Bulgarian.
Czech
Krizevci
Greek
Hungarian
Italo–Albanian
Melkite
Romanian
Russian
Ruthenian
Slovak

Ukrainian
ALEXANDRIAN FAMILY RITES

Coptic
Ethiopian/Abyssinian

www.masstimes.org** <~can help you find something close to you**. 👍
**
 
Patchunky said:
Try this link…

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www3.telus.net/nweparchy/images/Victoria.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www3.telus.net/nweparchy/parishes.html&usg=_VebuCJoaeMRZ5_v13ExVk3RYejc=&h=227&w=383&sz=30&hl=en&start=3&sig2=pwiDFFGoVWxg-uXNE5-Cw&um=1&tbnid=QkYwFoC7tL9HVM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst.%2Bnicholas%2Bukrainian%2Bcatholic%2Bchurch%2Bin%2Bvictoria,%2Bbc%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=dnggSvBg45-YB_vY8LIJ

It’s for the Ukrainian Catholic churches in British Columbia.

There is one called ST. NICHOLAS in Victoria and has Divine Liturgy in English on Saturday evening.

Hope this helps…
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Thank you very much.

Do you know what I should be expecting? Any differences that might catch me off-guard so to speak? Any different dress code (head covering for example)? Length of Mass?
 
Hi Adrianna - I remember in your other thread you said you were going with you boss and his family to the Russian Orthodox church.

Have you been to Divine Liturgy yet? I still would like to know what you think of it.

:heaven: :harp:
 
Interesting view. I also have found Catholic mass boring and I have attended many Catholic churches. Some are made more interesting because the priests have a charisma and/or deliver a great homily. But the standard liturgy can seem so repetitious, and in some places the participation of the congregation, especially in the singing, is poor. So many worshipers appear to be there out of a sense of obligation and are ready to race to the parking lot as soon as the mass ends.
I have found that many Catholics in this area either don't attend mass (only about 25% of the Catholic population, which is about 50% of the residents) or they have been attracted to other churches, most often new evangelical churches where there is a lot of vigorous singing and dynamic preaching. I have attended such churches, too, and find them enthusiastic, but the preachers preach far too long and the music, while peppy, becomes monotonous as they sing chorus after chorus with far more emotion than content.
 
AdriannaJean said:
Thank you very much.

Do you know what I should be expecting? Any differences that might catch me off-guard so to speak? Any different dress code (head covering for example)? Length of Mass?
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I can only speak as to Ukrainian Catholicism I suppose, if that’s where you decide to go. I had to learn the reverse of what you are now learning when I began attending Latin-rite masses in school. The first thing I noticed when as a student I attended Roman Catholic masses was that, upon entering the Church and finding a pew, a Roman Catholic may go down on one knee fully with a hand on the pew, bow, and then sit.

You do not have to worry about head covering, the length of the Mass if sung is slightly over an hour, if unsung, slightly less. But people still appear to dress up slightly more I think in our churches (old country, I guess) i.e. avoid jeans.

It is my experience with all the Ukrainian Catholic Churches I’ve attended that before you sit in a pew, you do not have to go on bended knee as in Roman Catholic churches, but bow towards the altar while standing, make the sign of the cross, and then sit in the pew. (Of course, we use “three fingers” in making the sign of the cross, and go right to left, while Roman Catholics use the whole hand and go left to right – in my experience, don’t even bother trying to do it the unfamiliar way, nobody will notice. It was my experience that if I kept on thinking about how to “properly” cross myself I would forget about the mass, which is self-defeating).

You may want to check the front of the Church for signs listing times for English language mass, as Ukrainians have been in North America for over 100 years and most now rely on English, ergo, there are many English or English/Ukrainian masses).

Inside the Church, you may want to find seating in the middle of the church so that you can follow the other parishioners as to when one sits and when one stands during the Mass. (I can’t even touch upon kneeling during the Mass because, depending on the parish, some Ukrainian Catholics kneel during portions of the Mass while others do not so best just to follow the others…no big deal).

If you decide to partake in the Eucharist, please remember that in Ukrainian Catholic Churches Holy Communion is administered by the priest with a spoon, so to speak, containing the bread and wine, Body and Blood, which you simply accept orally in the standing position…just close your eyes and open wide…and the priest will turn the spoon so that the Eucharist falls on your tongue. You then step to the side, make the sign of the cross towards the altar, and go back to your pew.

This is my rudimentary explanation, and I’ve already noticed that there are people on this site way better-versed in the Eastern rite than I, so I hope my explanation does not encounter disapproval, but I hope this helps. Any other questions, feel free.

God Bless.

p.s. and yes, it is my experience that our rite has certain things to offer which perhaps are not found in the Roman rite…but the same also holds true visa-versa. 🙂
 
AdriannaJean said:
Hey Everyone,

I have been looking into Orthodox Christianity because some people close to me are Orthodox. What I have found is that the community is much more traditional and (sorry, no offense meant here) beautiful than the Latin Rite church I attend myself. It seems like they have preserved the majesty of the Old Church that the Latin Rite has lost while trying to seem more “hip” and “modern”. I love the Pope and couldn’t convert to Orthodoxy because I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church. Does anyone know of a Catholic rite that keeps the majesty in the mass, so to speak? Preferably one that I could find a church in Canada…
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Instead of doing the work of searching for an Orthodox Church to attend, why not work hard at finding a Latin Rite church in which the “OUR” Rite is celebrated seriously, reverently, and beautifully?

Before coming to a full appreciation of Catholicism, I nearly became a Protestant. Then, before truly appreciating the Roman Rite, I nearly switched to the Byzantine Catholic Rite.

Thank God I kept persevering in the Roman Rite. I was rewarded with my discovery of St. Thomas the Apostle Parish in Phoenix Arizona. Never have I seen the Roman Rite celebrated with such reverence. And never before had I met such serious, knowledgeable, professional priests committed to teaching their parishioners the beauty and responsibility of being truly Roman Catholic.

Realize also that by switching to an Eastern Rite Church, you are giving up other important facets of the Roman Church, such as adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, as I found out when nearly becoming a Byzantine Catholic. The Byzantine Church I attended had a separate prayer chapel that was beautifully adorned with icons; however, the Blessed Sacrament lovingly reserved in a tabernacle was absent. In fact, having the Blessed Sacrament reserved in any type of tabernacle for the faithful to adore was a foreign concept to these beautiful and devout Christians, despite the fact that they are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

When celebrated correctly, and when the parishioner truly understands the profoundness of what is happening on the altar, the Roman Rite is anything but “boring.”

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
 
Keep in mind, with so many different Rites and sui juris Churches, every experience is different. The Maronites often do have Eucharistic Adoration. The Melkites have Orthros -community-oriented prayers that are not found in the Roman Church. A search for Maronite Canada should give some more info to add to what you’ve found!
 
Hey Adrianna! Do you attend the Novus Ordo (aka: Ordinary Form) Mass? Have you ever attended a Latin Mass, the Mass offered by the Latin Rite for over 1000 years? Talk about majesty! I found much the same boringness, irreverence, modern, etc. stuff that tends to creep up into our NO masses to be a bit distasteful as well. Again, let me know which form of the mass that you currently attend so that I/other readers get an idea of where you are coming from.
 
First of all, thank you everyone for your responses!

Patchunky:

I have looked into St Nicholas and I will go there this Sunday to try it out! Thank you for the info! They have a mass in English so I should be allright 🙂

Ruslan:

I have not yet been to a Divine Liturgy with my pseudo-family. I have seen lots of pictures of their church gatherings, baptisms and weddings and I have just fallen in love with everything about the look of it. As well the Father of this family directs the choir so I hear the songs he rehearses and nothing in my church could compare! I will be sure to let you know everything about it once I go!

Roy5:

I’m afraid the type of Mass I am looking for would be dreadfully boring for you. I’m all about the repetition and reverence 🙂 I have been to Protestant services and they are very much on one end of the spectrum and the type of Mass I am looking for would be on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. The regular Mass I attend now is too lukewarm for me :rolleyes:.

KyivAndrew:

THANK YOU SO MUCH! That is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! The Church I have decided to try is Ukrainian Catholic and I will be attending the English or the Bilingual Mass. Great advice.

RomeoCharlie:

I think you may have misunderstood my intent. I am not looking for an Orthodox Church but an Eastern Rite Catholic Church. While I am very happy that you have found a Parish in which the Roman Rite has been celebrated reverently and with the full majesty it entails, this is not so in my city. I have been to every Catholic Church in town and none of them that do, even the Cathedral doesn’t seem to cut it. Maybe it’s just because we’re all west-coast hippies out here :p.

I was not aware that one had to “belong” to a Rite. Could I not go to Mass at a Ukrainian Catholic Church if I liked that better while still going to Adoration at a Latin Rite Church if I wished? I thought we were just all Catholics and could “mix and match” as we please.

I do understand what it happening during the Mass. I think the problem lies in it being celebrated properly. It seems that the RCC in my area seems to be trying to hard to stay with the times that it loses its timeless quality, which is what I am drawn to.

gloria97000:

Thank you very much. I will look into those churches.

Schnitz:

Yes, I attend a Norvus Ordo Mass. I have never attended a Latin Mass as there are none where I live, but be assured that if there was one I would be there faster than you could tell me the address. 😃
 
Schnitz said:
Hey Adrianna! Do you attend the Novus Ordo (aka: Ordinary Form) Mass? Have you ever attended a Latin Mass, the Mass offered by the Latin Rite for over 1000 years? Talk about majesty! I found much the same boringness, irreverence, modern, etc. stuff that tends to creep up into our NO masses to be a bit distasteful as well. Again, let me know which form of the mass that you currently attend so that I/other readers get an idea of where you are coming from.
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Schnitz,

I appreciate your devotion to the Latin (Tridentine) Mass and your enthusiasm in recommending it to Adrianna. I enjoy and respect the Latin Mass. It is beautifully celebrated in my parish everyday by the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. Check out our Web Site: phoenixlatinmass.org/

I once thought that the Latin Mass (the Mass of my parents and grandparents) was ‘the only Mass for me.’ However, that changed one day when I witnessed this beautiful Mass poorly and mindlessly celebrated at another church. I realized then that the Novus Ordo was just as beautiful and important as the Latin Mass, so long as it is celebrated CORRECTLY and with extreme respect and reverence. As the Latin Mass can be poorly celebrated, the Novus Ordo can—and is—poorly celebrated everyday in many parishes across America.

Also, whether or not I’m “bored” during Mass has much more to do with me, than with the style of the Mass. Frankly, calling the Mass “boring” may be the mark of a poorly catechized Catholic. (I mean no offense. I am not referring to anyone in particular, here.) This is, perhaps, a Catholic who severely lacks understanding of the profoundness of what is happening on the altar during Mass. The Mass—any Mass—is NOT entertainment. It is NOT a show. It is NOT a performance. Of course, you may understand this important fact, but our friend Adrianna may not.

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
 
RomeoCharlie said:
Also, whether or not I’m “bored” during Mass has much more to do with me, than with the style of the Mass. Frankly, calling the Mass “boring” may be the mark of a poorly catechized Catholic. (I mean no offense. I am not referring to anyone in particular, here.) This is, perhaps, a Catholic who severely lacks understanding of the profoundness of what is happening on the altar during Mass. The Mass—any Mass—is NOT entertainment. It is NOT a show. It is NOT a performance. Of course, you may understand this important fact, but our friend Adrianna may not.
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I will take that comment in the least-offensive way possible. That being said, I am not a child and I do understand the profoundness of what is happening in the Mass.

What disturbs me is the lack of reverence from everyone else during the Mass. I do not go to Church seeking entertainment or a show. I would sit through an hour of nails on a chalkboard if it was the only way I could receive the Body of Christ. That being said, why would I not look for the best situation in which I find myself being the most reverent?

You make it seem like trying to find the best Mass for a particular person is bad, when it is not. Some people find it easier to focus in a more modern setting, I do not. I am simply trying to find the best situation for myself and you have succeeded in making me feel both guilty and ignorant. What have you achieved?
 
The Byzantine Church I attended had a separate prayer chapel that was beautifully adorned with icons; however, the Blessed Sacrament lovingly reserved in a tabernacle was absent. In fact, having the Blessed Sacrament reserved in any type of tabernacle for the faithful to adore was a foreign concept to these beautiful and devout Christians, despite the fact that they are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.
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In Eastern Catholic–as well as other Eastern Churches–the Holy Gifts are reserved in a tabernacle on the high altar, or else in a silver dove-shaped pyx above it.

Remember that the primary reason for Reservation is to provide Communion for the sick.

The devotional instincts that are met by Adoration and Benediction in the West are provided for in the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.
 
RomeoCharlie said:
Also, whether or not I’m “bored” during Mass has much more to do with me, than with the style of the Mass. Frankly, calling the Mass “boring” may be the mark of a poorly catechized Catholic. (I mean no offense. I am not referring to anyone in particular, here.) This is, perhaps, a Catholic who severely lacks understanding of the profoundness of what is happening on the altar during Mass. The Mass—any Mass—is NOT entertainment. It is NOT a show. It is NOT a performance. Of course, you may understand this important fact, but our friend Adrianna may not.
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You may say you are not referring to anyone in particular here, but your last sentence obviously betrays that bold assertion.

In all honesty, this is a Catholic Forum, cut the OP some slack. From what I have read of her posts, she seems a very devout and intelligent Catholic and what she seemed to be “down” with were some modern, stylistic changes. I think she perfectly understands the meaning of Mass and Transubstantiation and the Eucharist and its central role. You are just being uncharitable to her. Nobody here is asking her to convert to Islam or Protestantism for goodness’ sake.

I am a Ukrainian Catholic and if you believe my rite makes me somehow inferior in my practice of Catholicism to you, then why not just say it. The whole purpose of these forums is to provide venues for people seeking to strengthen their Catholic faith and whether the Byzantine rite helps in increasing the majesty of the Mass and Eucharist, that could be fair argument.

In the absence of you finding on these threads the OP’s misunderstanding of the Eucharist, I believe you may owe her an apology.

God Bless. 🙂
 
AdriannaJean said:
I will take that comment in the least-offensive way possible. That being said, I am not a child and I do understand the profoundness of what is happening in the Mass.

What disturbs me is the lack of reverence from everyone else during the Mass. I do not go to Church seeking entertainment or a show. I would sit through an hour of nails on a chalkboard if it was the only way I could receive the Body of Christ. That being said, why would I not look for the best situation in which I find myself being the most reverent?

You make it seem like trying to find the best Mass for a particular person is bad, when it is not. Some people find it easier to focus in a more modern setting, I do not. I am simply trying to find the best situation for myself and you have succeeded in making me feel both guilty and ignorant. What have you achieved?
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I did not mean to offend, but I see that I did. I am sorry.

Sincerely,
RC

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
 
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RomeoCharlie:
I appreciate your devotion to the Latin (Tridentine) Mass and your enthusiasm in recommending it to Adrianna. I enjoy and respect the Latin Mass. It is beautifully celebrated in my parish everyday by the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. Check out our Web Site: phoenixlatinmass.org/
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Your Church looks beautiful! Thank you for sharing!
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RomeoCharlie:
I once thought that the Latin Mass (the Mass of my parents and grandparents) was ‘the only Mass for me.’ However, that changed one day when I witnessed this beautiful Mass poorly and mindlessly celebrated at another church. I realized then that the Novus Ordo was just as beautiful and important as the Latin Mass, so long as it is celebrated CORRECTLY and with extreme respect and reverence. As the Latin Mass can be poorly celebrated, the Novus Ordo can—and is—poorly celebrated everyday in many parishes across America.
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Yes, I figured that I should have probably clarified that a little. Let me say it here: the NO is just as valid and licit as the TLM. And I would also agree that it can be just as beautiful when celebrated correctly. 😃
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RomeoCharlie:
Also, whether or not I’m “bored” during Mass has much more to do with me, than with the style of the Mass. Frankly, calling the Mass “boring” may be the mark of a poorly catechized Catholic. (I mean no offense. I am not referring to anyone in particular, here.) This is, perhaps, a Catholic who severely lacks understanding of the profoundness of what is happening on the altar during Mass. The Mass—any Mass—is NOT entertainment. It is NOT a show. It is NOT a performance. Of course, you may understand this important fact, but our friend Adrianna may not.
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Again, thank you for your clarifications. I used the word boring in order to relate to what I felt was an emotion that Adrianna was trying to express (dissatisfaction probably would have been better); probably not the best word to have picked. However, I do believe that the “smells and bells” of the mass are a key factor in elevating my attention and focus towards God and the sacrifice occurring before me. Unfortunately, in my own experiences, most NOs have attempted to streamline their masses to be more modern and are doing a great disservice to many of us participating in the mass.
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AdriannaJean:
Yes, I attend a Norvus Ordo Mass. I have never attended a Latin Mass as there are none where I live, but be assured that if there was one I would be there faster than you could tell me the address.
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Well, I will pray that you are able to attend one sometime. It is the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen. I think that it would most certainly “fix” many of the problems/dilemmas that you are encountering. In the mean time, good luck with the Ukrainian Catholic Mass (haven’t attended one yet, but heard they are beautiful as well)!😃
 
You do belong to a rite, and more correctly, to a specific Church Sui Iuris within that rite. If you haven’t formally changed it, and were baptized into or born into the Roman church, odds are extremely good you’re Roman Church Catholic.

One is not required to practice in the Rite of one’s enrolled church. One is required to live by that rite’s strictures.

The Byzantine Rite is 14 of the churches sui iuris, including the Ukrainian, Melkite, and Ruthenian churches.

Here’s a breakdown by rite (borrowed from gcatholic.com/dioceses/rites.htm) and based upon the use of the term in Canon Law.

Rite | Sui iuris Church
Roman or Latin Rite | Roman Church
Alexandrian Rite | Coptic Church, Ethiopic Church
Antiochian Rite | Maronite Church, Syro-Malankar Church
Armenian Rite | Armenian Church
Chaldean or Syro-Oriental Rite | Chaldean Church, Syro-Malabar Church
Constantinian or Byzantine Rite | Albanese Church, Byzantine Church of the Križevci Eparchy, Belarussian Church, Bulgarian Church, Greek Church, Greek-Melkite Church, Hungarian Church, Italo-Albanese Church, Macedonian Church, Romanian Church, Russian Church, Ruthenian Church, Slovak Church, Ukrainian Church

Within a given Rite, you’ll typically find few major variations amongst the different churches. (The Roman is an exception, having 10 or more valid major variations, albeit 4 restricted to small geographic areas, and 3 or 4 being restricted to specific monastic orders.

All are Catholic, and most have non-Catholic parallels. (Byzantines are the Eastern Orthodox.) The beauty you find in Orthodox liturgies is likely to be found also in Byzantine Rite Catholic liturgies. If you’re used to the OCA, the Russian Church and the Ukrainian Church are both extremely close to the OCA Russian Orthodox liturgies and practices.

While not all the Churches of the Byzantine Rite have parishes in the US, all the other churches sui iuris seem to.
byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_sobi2&Itemid=111 is a great place to find one near you. (And thanks to Irish Melkite for his work on it.
 
RomeoCharlie said:
Schnitz,

Also, whether or not I’m “bored” during Mass has much more to do with me, than with the style of the Mass. Frankly, calling the Mass “boring” may be the mark of a poorly catechized Catholic.
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I see the point you’re making, but I heartily disagree. 😉

I converted as an adult, I took my catechetical instruction very seriously, and I’m well aware of what’s going on at the Mass. From the Offering onward I feel very close to God, and I’m amazed that I get to receive the actual Body and Blood of Christ.

But before that, I’m bored out of my @#!$% mind 😊

I hate to sing, and I don’t like hearing untrained voices like mine attempt it. I think that’s what the cantor/choir is there for. Homilies that bear the likeness of those given by Bishop Sheen or Father Corapi are non-existent. Often they feel more “self-help” than theological. And don’t even get me going on the idea of a “family Mass” or a “teen Mass”.

The fact of the matter is, the priest is there to present again – and this time in an unbloody fashion – the sacrifice made by Our Lord at Calvary. That’s all I’m there for, and I wish that’s all that Mass consisted of. I get envious when I hear stories of soldiers hearing Mass at the back of a Jeep on a battlefield because I think, “I bet they didn’t have to sing, and they probably weren’t subjected to a homily.”

🤷 But what am I gonna do?
 
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