Latin Rite boring, HELP!

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I just thought I would give everyone an update here.

I went to the Ukrainian Catholic Church that Pachunky was so kind as to direct me towards. I loved it!! Everything about it was beautiful and I found it to be very grounding. I would heartily recommend it to anyone who felt that the Latin Rite wasn’t for them. That being said, I went to a bilingual Mass and probably should have started off with an English one. But everyone there was very helpful and did their best to keep me on track with the missal (Ukrainian on one side and English equivalent on the other).
 
AdriannaJean said:
First of all, thank you everyone for your responses!

I have looked into St Nicholas and I will go there this Sunday to try it out! Thank you for the info! They have a mass in English so I should be allright 🙂
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I was wondering if you made it to St. Nicholas this past Sunday, and what your impressions were.

Elizabeth
 
KyivAndrew said:
I can only speak as to Ukrainian Catholicism I suppose, if that’s where you decide to go. I had to learn the reverse of what you are now learning when I began attending Latin-rite masses in school. The first thing I noticed when as a student I attended Roman Catholic masses was that, upon entering the Church and finding a pew, a Roman Catholic may go down on one knee fully with a hand on the pew, bow, and then sit.

You do not have to worry about head covering, the length of the Mass if sung is slightly over an hour, if unsung, slightly less. But people still appear to dress up slightly more I think in our churches (old country, I guess) i.e. avoid jeans.

It is my experience with all the Ukrainian Catholic Churches I’ve attended that before you sit in a pew, you do not have to go on bended knee as in Roman Catholic churches, but bow towards the altar while standing, make the sign of the cross, and then sit in the pew. (Of course, we use “three fingers” in making the sign of the cross, and go right to left, while Roman Catholics use the whole hand and go left to right – in my experience, don’t even bother trying to do it the unfamiliar way, nobody will notice. It was my experience that if I kept on thinking about how to “properly” cross myself I would forget about the mass, which is self-defeating).
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Kyiv Andrew:

I think you might want to remind Adrianna Jean to dress up a bit - think about going to a party or a wedding party. I’ve been attending a Maronite Divine Liturgy (similar “Dress Code” to yours), and the difference between how the worshipers dress for that & for the Roman Liturgy are almost like night & day… The Maronites wear their “Sunday Best” to Mass, while the Romans don’t.

Another thing you might want to mention is the bow Eastern Catholics (& Eastern Orthodox) make towards the Tabernacle is a PROFOUND BOW - a bow from the waist. a good description of that kind of bow can be found here 1 Kings 18…
… And Elijah went up to the top of Mount Carmel. And he bowed himself down on the earth and put his face between his knees.
1 Kings 18:42bc ESV
This type of Bow was suggested to me when I found I my disability prevented me from Genuflecting.

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
 
Traditional_Ang said:
Kyiv Andrew:

I think you might want to remind Adrianna Jean to dress up a bit - think about going to a party or a wedding party. I’ve been attending a Maronite Divine Liturgy (similar “Dress Code” to yours), and the difference between how the worshipers dress for that & for the Roman Liturgy are almost like night & day… The Maronites wear their “Sunday Best” to Mass, while the Romans don’t.

Another thing you might want to mention is the bow Eastern Catholics (& Eastern Orthodox) make towards the Tabernacle is a PROFOUND BOW - a bow from the waist. a good description of that kind of bow can be found here 1 Kings 18…
… And Elijah went up to the top of Mount Carmel. And he bowed himself down on the earth and put his face between his knees.
1 Kings 18:42bc ESV
This type of Bow was suggested to me when I found I my disability prevented me from Genuflecting.

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
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Michael, Much Thanks. I don’t have to tell her now because you’ve done an admirable job explaining and AdriannaJean is quite the voracious reader and poster on CAF so I am sure by tomorrow she will have read this, eh Adrianna? (the “eh” when used in Canada is not disparaging but a mark of respect:))

I thank you so much. Positive and beautiful comments are always wonderful to find on this Forum

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Andrew. 🙂
 
RomeoCharlie:

I get the feeling you just don’t understand that there are something like 24 total Catholic Churches in Union with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI - You might want to read my post here:

Potential Anglican church joining Catholic Church – Post #32
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3859862&postcount=32
Why should I trust the Roman Catholic Church – Post #119
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5083607&postcount=119
RomeoCharlie said:
Instead of doing the work of searching for an Orthodox Church to attend, why not work hard at finding a Latin Rite church in which the “OUR” Rite is celebrated seriously, reverently, and beautifully?

Before coming to a full appreciation of Catholicism, I nearly became a Protestant. Then, before truly appreciating the Roman Rite, I nearly switched to the Byzantine Catholic Rite.

Thank God I kept persevering in the Roman Rite. I was rewarded with my discovery of St. Thomas the Apostle Parish in Phoenix Arizona. Never have I seen the Roman Rite celebrated with such reverence. And never before had I met such serious, knowledgeable, professional priests committed to teaching their parishioners the beauty and responsibility of being truly Roman Catholic.

Realize also that by switching to an Eastern Rite Church, you are giving up other important facets of the Roman Church, such as adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, as I found out when nearly becoming a Byzantine Catholic. The Byzantine Church I attended had a separate prayer chapel that was beautifully adorned with icons; however, the Blessed Sacrament lovingly reserved in a tabernacle was absent. In fact, having the Blessed Sacrament reserved in any type of tabernacle for the faithful to adore was a foreign concept to these beautiful and devout Christians, despite the fact that they are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

When celebrated correctly, and when the parishioner truly understands the profoundness of what is happening on the altar, the Roman Rite is anything but “boring.”

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
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And, Romeo, I don’t think you realize that Eastern Rite Catholics are CATHOLICS in Union with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI. There NOT Orthodox, they’re CATHOLICS!

Adrianna Jean isn’t thinking of joining the Eastarn Orthodox - She just wants to worship with CATHOLICS who treat our Lord as the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. I’m sorry, I don’t think someone should have to try every parish Western in his or her metropolitan area before trying an Eastern rite Catholic parish…

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
AdriannaJean said:
Hey Everyone,

I have been looking into Orthodox Christianity because some people close to me are Orthodox. What I have found is that the community is much more traditional and (sorry, no offense meant here) beautiful than the Latin Rite church I attend myself. It seems like they have preserved the majesty of the Old Church that the Latin Rite has lost while trying to seem more “hip” and “modern”. I love the Pope and couldn’t convert to Orthodoxy because I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church. Does anyone know of a Catholic rite that keeps the majesty in the mass, so to speak? .
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The Byzantine Sui Juris Catholic Churches have exactly the same Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox. Additonally there are the Maronite, Melkite, Thomas Christian, Coptic and other Churches in full communion with the Holy See that have their own very ancient Liturgies. You might also seek out a Church which has preserved the Extra ordinary form of the Latin Mass. A High Holy Mass is indeed something of great beauty.
 
RomeoCharlie said:
Instead of doing the work of searching for an Orthodox Church to attend, why not work hard at finding a Latin Rite church in which the “OUR” Rite is celebrated seriously, reverently, and beautifully?

Before coming to a full appreciation of Catholicism, I nearly became a Protestant. Then, before truly appreciating the Roman Rite, I nearly switched to the Byzantine Catholic Rite.

Thank God I kept persevering in the Roman Rite. I was rewarded with my discovery of St. Thomas the Apostle Parish in Phoenix Arizona. Never have I seen the Roman Rite celebrated with such reverence. And never before had I met such serious, knowledgeable, professional priests committed to teaching their parishioners the beauty and responsibility of being truly Roman Catholic.

Realize also that by switching to an Eastern Rite Church, you are giving up other important facets of the Roman Church, such as adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, as I found out when nearly becoming a Byzantine Catholic. The Byzantine Church I attended had a separate prayer chapel that was beautifully adorned with icons; however, the Blessed Sacrament lovingly reserved in a tabernacle was absent. In fact, having the Blessed Sacrament reserved in any type of tabernacle for the faithful to adore was a foreign concept to these beautiful and devout Christians, despite the fact that they are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

When celebrated correctly, and when the parishioner truly understands the profoundness of what is happening on the altar, the Roman Rite is anything but “boring.”

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
Click to expand...
I go to this church as well, however I go there for the Tradition Latin Mass (Mater Misericoridae Mission)…just thought I would throw that in there . 😉

Fr. Faber once said that the Latin Mass is “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven…”…and I couldn’t agree more!
 
If the latin Mass is boring its the fault of the person attending the same for the new order mass it is totally boring which I personallly feel was part of the intentions of Vat II was to remove most of the traditions and make it more like a protestant service, This past weekend I had EWTN on and they had a show about a very Large RCC in Chicago St John ____ Cant recall the full name but it recently under went a multi million dollar restoration I think it may have been built in the 1920’s or earlier as it had a definate Pre Vat II look to the architecture and interior design, any way the church had been declining in membership for some time and now it has had a revival due to the priest who is the pastor, he had combined Vat II and the TLM on alternate days and week ends and has brought back traditional music and his parish has tripled with daily attendance and they have had to add other masses and more priests to handle the increased large crowds which at times they have to say sorry this mass is full can you wait for the next one today ? This is what all the RCC churches in America need to copy and stick with, as it is bringing back members
 
St. John Cantius, near Chicago Ave. and Ogden.

Beautifully restored, thank you Fr. C. Frank Phillips and the Society for your beautiful gift to the Church!
 
KyivAndrew said:
Michael, Much Thanks. I don’t have to tell her now because you’ve done an admirable job explaining and AdriannaJean is quite the voracious reader and poster on CAF so I am sure by tomorrow she will have read this, eh Adrianna? (the “eh” when used in Canada is not disparaging but a mark of respect:))

I thank you so much. Positive and beautiful comments are always wonderful to find on this Forum

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Andrew. 🙂
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Oh Andrew 😛 You know me far too well, eh 🙂
 
Augie1530 said:
If the latin Mass is boring its the fault of the person attending the same for the new order mass it is totally boring which I personallly feel was part of the intentions of Vat II was to remove most of the traditions and make it more like a protestant service, This past weekend I had EWTN on and they had a show about a very Large RCC in Chicago St John ____ Cant recall the full name but it recently under went a multi million dollar restoration I think it may have been built in the 1920’s or earlier as it had a definate Pre Vat II look to the architecture and interior design, any way the church had been declining in membership for some time and now it has had a revival due to the priest who is the pastor, he had combined Vat II and the TLM on alternate days and week ends and has brought back traditional music and his parish has tripled with daily attendance and they have had to add other masses and more priests to handle the increased large crowds which at times they have to say sorry this mass is full can you wait for the next one today ? This is what all the RCC churches in America need to copy and stick with, as it is bringing back members
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How can the Mass possibly be “boring” ? Not to ask this basic question, is to leave unquestioned the basic error in the question: that the Mass is entertainment. It is nothing of the kind. This cannot be emphasised enough. What do people think the Mass is ??? People capable of finding it “boring” (!!!) are capable of finding eternal happiness thunderingly tedious :mad:​

 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

How can the Mass possibly be “boring” ? Not to ask this basic question, is to leave unquestioned the basic error in the question: that the Mass is entertainment. It is nothing of the kind. This cannot be emphasised enough. What do people think the Mass is ??? People capable of finding it “boring” (!!!) are capable of finding eternal happiness thunderingly tedious :mad:​

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Hey GoG, I guess it is just the way the question came out because I believe the OP was seeking an answer in another thread phrased more diplomatically which I think may have ended in intra-confessional dispute and she may not have felt her question was being answered, hence her desperation in this post’s question.

I think the whole gist of the OP’s concern was that modern Roman Catholic masses which attempt to offer “entertainment” as a way to entice the faithful was what she was complaining about, the exact point you are making…so you are actually in agreement with her. The OP was seeking to find the beauty of the Mass again where the “entertainment” showmanship would be at a minimum and she could pray and partake in the Eucharist in a more traditional manner. Far be it from me to speak on the OP’s behalf but I think what she was seeking was exactly what you are preaching: less entertainment, more dignity for the Mass. I hope I have not offended anyone.

God Bless. 🙂
 
Traditional_Ang said:
RomeoCharlie:

I get the feeling you just don’t understand that there are something like 24 total Catholic Churches in Union with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI - You might want to read my post here:

Potential Anglican church joining Catholic Church – Post #32
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3859862&postcount=32
Why should I trust the Roman Catholic Church – Post #119
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5083607&postcount=119

And, Romeo, I don’t think you realize that Eastern Rite Catholics are CATHOLICS in Union with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI. There NOT Orthodox, they’re CATHOLICS!

Adrianna Jean isn’t thinking of joining the Eastarn Orthodox - She just wants to worship with CATHOLICS who treat our Lord as the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. I’m sorry, I don’t think someone should have to try every parish Western in his or her metropolitan area before trying an Eastern rite Catholic parish…

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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Traditional Ang, thank you for the advice. However, if you review my previous post you’ll find that I do understand quite well that Eastern-Rite Catholics are in full communion with the Holy Father.

The concern I shared in my May 29 post was that, in my humble opinion, Roman Catholics should try to grow in appreciation of the Novus Ordo, and help others (priest and parishioner, alike) to do likewise, rather than simply abandoning it because it may seem “boring”.

I attempted to show how I had experimented in different beautiful Rites, as well as RCC’s own Tridentine Mass, before understanding that my faith in the Crucified Messiah is far more important and profound than exactly what Mass/Divine Liturgy I participate in, so long as the Body and Blood of Jesus are truly present and the Eucharist is celebrated with extreme reverence and love for Christ. I’ve chosen Novus Ordo for myself, not because it is perfect, but because I know that it is as important as the Divine Liturgy, the Tridentine Mass, etc.

My goal was the defense of the Novus Ordo. Perhaps I failed. Perhaps my lack of articulation caused my message to suffer. Perhaps few on this forum believe the Novus Ordo is deserving of a defense. Whatever the case, my motive should be considered nothing more and nothing less than the defense of the New Mass (reverently celebrated, of course). At no time did I intend to insult Eastern-Rite Catholics or to denigrate the Divine Liturgy, which I believe to be Holy, beautiful, and a gift from Our Lord to His followers.

I’m a military member. I’ve participated in Mass all over the world; in churches, chapels, and tents, and I have forced myself to find the beauty inherent in all Catholic Masses and Divine Liturgies, no matter how simple in appearance, no matter how devoid of Catholic art and symbolism, no matter how rushed the priest-chaplain is, or how preoccupied the service personnel may appear. But seeing this beauty is work. It takes effort and energy—even concentration. If at any time I become bored, then I am simply not properly doing my part as a member of Christ’s faithful.

Sincerely,
RC

Peace of Christ
http://ts3.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=800258927118&id=6cadc6c9e2eab90259543e9efbc09902
 
AdriannaJean said:
Hey Everyone,

I have been looking into Orthodox Christianity because some people close to me are Orthodox. What I have found is that the community is much more traditional and (sorry, no offense meant here) beautiful than the Latin Rite church I attend myself. It seems like they have preserved the majesty of the Old Church that the Latin Rite has lost while trying to seem more “hip” and “modern”. I love the Pope and couldn’t convert to Orthodoxy because I believe that the Pope is the head of the Church. Does anyone know of a Catholic rite that keeps the majesty in the mass, so to speak? Preferably one that I could find a church in Canada…
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So far as I know, all the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches have preserved the dignity, beauty, and solemnity of the ancient church.

I know exactly what you are saying. When I finally came back to the Church, I was so disgusted with the Liturgical abuses of the Novus Ordo, I gravitated East. 👍
 
KyivAndrew said:
Hey GoG, I guess it is just the way the question came out because I believe the OP was seeking an answer in another thread phrased more diplomatically which I think may have ended in intra-confessional dispute and she may not have felt her question was being answered, hence her desperation in this post’s question.

I think the whole gist of the OP’s concern was that modern Roman Catholic masses which attempt to offer “entertainment” as a way to entice the faithful was what she was complaining about, the exact point you are making…so you are actually in agreement with her. The OP was seeking to find the beauty of the Mass again where the “entertainment” showmanship would be at a minimum and she could pray and partake in the Eucharist in a more traditional manner. Far be it from me to speak on the OP’s behalf but I think what she was seeking was exactly what you are preaching: less entertainment, more dignity for the Mass. I hope I have not offended anyone.

God Bless. 🙂
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I can’t think of anyone better to speak on my behalf, Andrew. And, yes, I can affirm that this was my intention.

I’m afraid I should have worded the title of my post more correctly. To clear up any confusion, let’s all pretend I called it “Seeking Greater Reverence Than Latin Rite”. I certainly did not mean that watching simple bread and wine become the physical Body of Christ could ever be boring!!

So again, I apologize for inadequate wording.
 
Hello Adrianna,
I quickly read this thread, & hope I don’t repeat anything already said. Our Holy Father JP2 referred to the Catholic Church as breathing with 2 lungs, East & West/Byzantine (generically speaking) and Latin. He -JP2- encouraged everyone to attend each other’s Liturgies, and celebrate and enjoy both. Take in the beauty of each.
I spent several years in the Russian Orthodox Church, and have attended liturgies of many rites. Currently, -a practicing Catholic-, I attend many East and West Churches. One Sunday a month I attend the Tridentine. Another, once a month, is a Byzantine Liturgy. Sometimes I’ll get to a Novus Ordo all in Latin. I love them all. I’m old enough to have celebrated Mass pre-Vatican2. I’m learning Latin all over again. I can chant in Slavonic. What a blessing our Mother Church is. So, I recommend to people that they do the same. And though all Masses are canonically the same, we all know they vary greatly in many ways. The same with the Eastern Liturgies. The many different Rites (as correctly outlined here previously) will clearly vary in the Divine Liturgy. ex: Holy Eucharist with spoon, -elsewhere no spoon. But with every single one: we are privileged and honoured to receive the Body/Blood/Soul/Divinity of Jesus. If I find that I am distracted at a Mass, be it exceptionally noisy children, bad music, irreverent preaching, whatever, I just bow my head, close my eyes, and then it’s just me at the Altar. “Christ is Risen, indeed, He is Truly Risen”. DeoGratias.
 
Dear brother Joseph,

WELCOME!!! I’m sorry for making this personal request publicly, but I did not find any other way to contact you. I would be greatly interested in your own journey to the Catholic Church. Here is my own: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141

If you feel up to it, I’m sure it would be very inspirational for those here.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Joseph,

WELCOME!!! I’m sorry for making this personal request publicly, but I did not find any other way to contact you. I would be greatly interested in your own journey to the Catholic Church. Here is my own: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141

If you feel up to it, I’m sure it would be very inspirational for those here.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
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Dear Marduk,

Thank you. Would be very happy to join in your conversation. I see that the thread is long-ish, so will later devour some of it and put my 2 cents (3 Canadian) in, IF, there is anything I can say that hasn’t been said. I hate to add trivia to what has already been said. This internet stuff can be confusing to me at times, (it’s good to have kids that know more :o ) . Thanks again for your kind reply. Just tell me where to write. Joseph.
 
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