Thing about the East as I pointed out earlier is that while the Liturgy itself traces its origin to 1500 years ago, there have been many “innovations” added in.
Despite what I said in my previous post, there’s nothing wrong with recapturing authentic tradition and delatinizing. This has been time and again championed (at least in theory) by a variety of Roman Pontiffs for quite some centuries.
Not at all. Its highly likely that there was a single source of Liturgy, the Liturgy of St. James. I would think earlier Roman Rite Liturgies will resemble the East more.
There’s nothing wrong with switching Rites for appropriate reasons, but it’s a real shame if people feel they have to switch Rites because their own Rite is not being celebrated properly and traditionally. But I wouldn’t say that the Latin Rite is “getting more and more modernized.” On the contrary, many Catholics are rediscovering the beauty inherent in our authentic liturgical heritage. Scholas are being re-formed, some newer churches are looking more traditional or being restored, more interest in ad orientem, returning the tabernacle to the center, and traditional devotions… many of the most traditionally-minded priests out there are young and/or recently ordained priests.
Just wanted to note that what you have listed here as the OF prayer is only the current, poor, outgoing English paraphrase of the Latin that you have listed here for the EF. In the actual Latin of the Ordinary Form, it’s identical to the Latin from the Extraordinary Form, and the new English translation of the Missal reflects that.
Yes, I am very aware of that. But if you see my point, there’s really nothing in the new translation that will make up for what attacts me to the Byzantine Rite. Also I made my move last year, so no point in comparing something that isn’t in place yet when I made my move.
That makes sense. There is great beauty in each Rite when properly celebrated, and I’m glad you recognize that. I know for myself, I’d love to experience the Eastern and Oriental Rites, but there are no Eastern Catholic Churches anywhere nearby. But I’m also pretty convinced that I personally belong in the Roman Rite, and I hope to do my part to restore the beauty of that Rite that has been lost in so many places. (I’m not advocating, by the way, for a complete reversal and return to the EF only, but rather that the EF be available and the OF be celebrated within the hermeneutic of continuity.)
I am very thankful to God for that, that His Church expresses her faith in many different traditions. There is something for everybody. I wish all Rites and Traditions are available everywhere in the world. I have a feeling we’ll get there. The Eastern Rites have slowly been creeping into many countries that had only Roman Catholics in the past. I seriously think the Eastern Rites will save those who may not agree with the Western way of thinking and worship from going to a different faith.
I wasn’t aware of anything on the TLM that would offend the Orthodox. Unless you’re talking about imposed Latinizations on Eastern Churches.I see the Reform of the Reform as bringing back some of the Catholic Teaching to the Liturgy. There is present in the Liturgy of Paul VI an attempt to exclude anything that might offend Protestants and Orthodox alike but that left us with very little actual Catholic Teaching in the Liturgy itself. Maybe that is the way it was in the West but I acknowledge that when you attend an Eastern Divine Liturgy and you pay attention to what you are singing… you are being taught profoundly. The Liturgy is filled with teaching on just about everything. How an Eastern Christian falls into Heresy is beyond me.
We can’t deny it does happen, that there are some disgruntled Roman Catholics who are seeking a more reverent Liturgy would find refuge in an Eastern parish. But oftentimes they will not find what they are finding for in an Eastern parish. Those who long for communion rails will often not find any kneeling at all. Those who seek reverent silence will not find it in non-stop singing of prayers and praises to God. Those who are looking for traditional, age-old languages will be hard pressed these days, as most Eastern parishes has already adopted the vernacular with open arms.I am also perplexed with the question of the OP?
And yes, we all have our choice. Yet let us not lose fact that the Melkite Greek Catholic Church represented over .12% of the Holy Roman Catholic Church according to 2008 numbers,…we are all different and what’s wrong with that? I wish I had a better definition of what the UGCC numbers were, nevertheless I hope my point is not misunderstood.
If I had to escape the modernization of many Latin Rite churches by attending an Eastern Rite church, I still feel at present, I could do that if necessary, but the time may come in the future when I would feel quite uncomfortable doing so.Some Orthodox object to the Roman Canon. When groups of Cathloics using the Extraordinary Form have joined a canonical Orthodox jurisdiction with permission to celebrate the Extraordinary Form but have been required to interpolate the epiklesis from the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom into the Mass.
The UGCC is the largest Eastern Catholic Church with about 5 million members.And yes, we all have our choice. Yet let us not lose fact that the Melkite Greek Catholic Church represented over .12% of the Holy Roman Catholic Church according to 2008 numbers,…we are all different and what’s wrong with that? I wish I had a better definition of what the UGCC numbers were, nevertheless I hope my point is not misunderstood.
Interesting. What particular lines do they object to?
The Melkite Greek Catholic Church is NOT a part of the “Holy Roman Catholic Church”. It is in communion with said Church, but is not a part of it. The “Holy Roman Catholic Church” is one sui juris Church (albeit the largest, at least here in the West) among a communion of 22+ sui juris Churches.And yes, we all have our choice. Yet let us not lose fact that the Melkite Greek Catholic Church represented over .12% of the Holy Roman Catholic Church according to 2008 numbers,…we are all different and what’s wrong with that? I wish I had a better definition of what the UGCC numbers were, nevertheless I hope my point is not misunderstood.
They do not object to any lines, they object to the missing lines. The Roman Canon has an implied Epiclesis rather than an explicit one.