Latin to Byzantine

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ByzCathCantor said:
I think RejoiceAlways was suggesting that there are ECs who maintain their Eastern sense of spirituality while attending RC parishes, likely out of necessity. To your point, easier done if that is your starting point and you were formed as an Eastern Catholic from the beginning.
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They key really is your maturity in the Eastern praxis. It is hard to grow, maybe even impossible. But if you are mature, you can maintain. It is like a child that you bring to another country and have him/her grow up there. The child adapts to the culture of the other country. If the immigrant is an adult, they are more likely to keep their ethnic identity.
 
The Bulgarians have a parish in The Hague. Might try to get there on bike once.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I will have to disagree. Especially for one who is a beginner in the spirituality (such as myself). The Liturgy is part of the entire life of the spirituality. It would be difficult to grow in Eastern spirituality while going to the Roman Rite.
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Good point. Liturgy is catechesis, but a 2-hour one-way drive doesn’t seem too practical (if it were me having to budget for gas, time, etc).

Considering that my local RC parish is five minutes away, and my total drive time is ten minutes, which is much shorter than a weekly one-day four-hour drive time to the proposed DL – and probably six to seven hour total time (drive time+DL+after DL coffee time 🙂 etc). All that would create some significant barriers to my own sprituality, not to mention the fact that I would have to jump into the next tax bracket in earnings to afford such a weekly endeavor. I could probably just save money by moving closer. 😉

With the EC church being so far away, I would personally find it difficult to be involved during the weekdays or on holy days or to get to confession or receive spiritual direction regularly or to volunteer at the church (etc etc etc), which would could inhibit my spiritual development, especially being a beginner.

Sacrifices could and should be made, especially when we’re talking about spirituality and our relationship with Jesus Christ, but there is so much more to consider. But if I already lived close to an RC, I would have to seriously consider that God has a plan for me as a Catholic, that I should pay close attention to the fact that God has placed me close to an RC. Both the RC and EC are Catholic. Both have the brides of Jesus Christ. Both have the Eucharist. Deep down, we’re all Catholic, though we may express it differently.

Again, these are just my personal considerations if I were in such a situation.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
I think RejoiceAlways was suggesting that there are ECs who maintain their Eastern sense of spirituality while attending RC parishes, likely out of necessity. To your point, easier done if that is your starting point and you were formed as an Eastern Catholic from the beginning.
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Yes, I think that’s part of it!
ConstantineTG said:
They key really is your maturity in the Eastern praxis. It is hard to grow, maybe even impossible. But if you are mature, you can maintain. It is like a child that you bring to another country and have him/her grow up there. The child adapts to the culture of the other country. If the immigrant is an adult, they are more likely to keep their ethnic identity.
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More good points! Very difficult and serious decisions to make.

Most Ukrainians I see are watching their 1st generation born in USA Ukrainian-American kids growing up more American than Ukrainian. To borrow something St Francis de Sales said, they bloom where they are planted.
 
I mean, when I was a postulant with the Conventual Franciscans, one of the priests in the Province was a Ruthenian priest with bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Rite as being a part of a Latin Order, and he would give seminars to me and my classmates on the differences between the Byzantine angle of theology and the Latin angle of theology, and it appeared that even before realizing it, my theological leanings have been more Eastern than Western (except for the Immaculate Conception, that is entirely Western). While living in Chicago, I would attend Liturgy at the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral, St John Cantius in both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms both in Latin, and a Greek Orthodox parish (very open to my visitations with some of the other friars, some in habit). I have one icon (Christ creating the stars, as I used to go to university for astrophysics) and a 33 knot Jesus Prayer Rope.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
The Bulgarians have a marvelous chant tradition - I think you would be well rewarded for all the peddling!
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I didn’t know that. Some recommendations of good Bulgarian chants?

Anyway, I might try to email the priest first and ask if I’m welcome since I’m not EO or Bulgarian. I always have this anxiety that I won’t be welcome when I go to new places and I don’t know if ethnic parishes are very welcoming to newcomers.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
I didn’t know that. Some recommendations of good Bulgarian chants?
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Here are two interesting samples - I’ll PM some more links to you when I have a chance.

Sofia Boys Choir

Hymn to the Theotokos (Bulgarian)

I like Bulgarian chant as, to me, it is a fusion of Greek and Slavic influence.
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Anyway, I might try to email the priest first and ask if I’m welcome since I’m not EO or Bulgarian. I always have this anxiety that I won’t be welcome when I go to new places and I don’t know if ethnic parishes are very welcoming to newcomers.
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That’s always a good idea, especially since the Orthodox tend to know when strangers are in their midst. I’m sure you will be welcome nonetheless, with some obvious restrictions on full participation in the Liturgy and Sacraments.
 
One is obliged to follow ones vocation from God, whether to the priesthood or religious life, or marriage, etc. Changing rites, however, is not a vocation. A desire to change rites can be acted upon or ignored, without committing sin. It is strictly a matter of personal judgement.

Leaving the Catholic Church for the Orthodox, however, is sinful. Such temptations or desires should not even be entertained. Occasionally visiting to experience the liturgy is not sinful, but if you wish to change rites, it is up to you to decide if you have the time and resources to travel to an Eastern Catholic Church on a regular basis.
 
runningdude said:
One is obliged to follow ones vocation from God, whether to the priesthood or religious life, or marriage, etc. Changing rites, however, is not a vocation. A desire to change rites can be acted upon or ignored, without committing sin. It is strictly a matter of personal judgement.

Leaving the Catholic Church for the Orthodox, however, is sinful. Such temptations or desires should not even be entertained. Occasionally visiting to experience the liturgy is not sinful, but if you wish to change rites, it is up to you to decide if you have the time and resources to travel to an Eastern Catholic Church on a regular basis.
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I was asking for help, not a lecture. I do appreciate your time and your objective reality of your help though. I do understand the objective sinful nature of leaving to a schismatic Church, hence my plea for help.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I will have to disagree. Especially for one who is a beginner in the spirituality (such as myself). The Liturgy is part of the entire life of the spirituality. It would be difficult to grow in Eastern spirituality while going to the Roman Rite.
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I was just thinking …

I’ve been attending a Melkite parish weekly since 2002, so I’m a little vague on remembering how it feels to go to a Latin parish every Sunday. But in principle, at least, one would hope that – if for some reason we never went to our respective Eastern parishes – we could somehow be happy being “just Latin”. After all, it’s not like all Western Catholics before us always had the “Eastern option” conveniently available to them. (Apologies if this thread isn’t the best place to bring this up. :))
 
Peter_J said:
I was just thinking …

I’ve been attending a Melkite parish weekly since 2002, so I’m a little vague on remembering how it feels to go to a Latin parish every Sunday. But in principle, at least, one would hope that – if for some reason we never went to our respective Eastern parishes – we could somehow be happy being “just Latin”. After all, it’s not like all Western Catholics before us always had the “Eastern option” conveniently available to them. (Apologies if this thread isn’t the best place to bring this up. :))
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Definitely! A lot of Ukrainian Catholics are that way, at least in our parishes. Come the major Ukrainian religious and cultural holidays of Christmas, Theophany and Pascha, our parish suddenly becomes standing-room-only from the usual dozen to two dozen. They are most probably regulars at their RC parish down the street. I know of one family that moved out to a town that is at least an hour-and-a-half drive away. So they only come for those special days.
 
Well that’s certainly true too, but I meant more What if I had never started going to Melkite (or any other EC) parishes at all?

That alternative would have been … well, when I imagine it it feels a little cold and dark. At the same time, the Latin parishes are off-the-hook, in the sense that they can cater to a smaller variety of people (since some types of people, including you and me, tend to gravitate toward EC parishes instead).
 
Peter_J said:
Well that’s certainly true too, but I meant more What if I had never started going to Melkite (or any other EC) parishes at all?

That alternative would have been … well, when I imagine it it feels a little cold and dark. At the same time, the Latin parishes are off-the-hook, in the sense that they can cater to a smaller variety of people (since some types of people, including you and me, tend to gravitate toward EC parishes instead).
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If the RC priest I loved so much never left our parish, I can imagine I am still Roman Catholic today.
 
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