Latin Translation

[rosary_kat]

A patient of mine and her husband picked up two parchments of what looks like square note Gregorion chant in the 1960’s in Spain. To the best of my copy skills this is what is written:

crucis apparet hostia tensis in cruce bracchiis sex alis tecta variis cum vultus elegancia qua francisci cor attrahit augens ei charismata

Any of you Latinistas out there recognize it? I’d like to be able to tell her whether it’s a prayer, a psalm or a hymn.

Thank you!

 

[MarkThompson]

A patient of mine and her husband picked up two parchments of what looks like square note Gregorion chant in the 1960’s in Spain. To the best of my copy skills this is what is written:

crucis apparet hostia tensis in cruce bracchiis sex alis tecta variis cum vultus elegancia qua francisci cor attrahit augens ei charismata

Any of you Latinistas out there recognize it? I’d like to be able to tell her whether it’s a prayer, a psalm or a hymn.

Thank you!

It is a poem or song concerning St. Francis of Assisi. It may originally have been a sequence (see here), though the sequences were abolished at Trent and a quick search finds your example discussed as being in present use some two centuries later in this 1784 book. The text says,
Procession of Cordon*, which each month is done in our Convents, with the Venerable Third Order in attendance. Having confessed, and communicated, each one gains a plenary Indulgence; and not having done it, only one hundred days of Indulgence.

While the Procession straightens out, the Aña** is sung. Crucis apparet, . . . .]. Afterward, it continues by singing the Hymn of Our Lady, Ave Maris Stella, &c., and later of our Seraphic F[ather] Saint Francis, and in the three first lienzos*** the Community waits, while the Cross is incensed, which the Priest carries, and the Images of the Immaculate Conception, and our Seraphic Father.

• One definition of “Cordon” is "the girdle by which monks tie up their habits.
  ** “Aña” means “hyena,” so either it has another meaning here that I don’t know, or might be something like a short form for antifona, “antiphon.”
  *** “Lienzo” means a strip of cloth or linen, but can mean a stretch of a wall or face of a building, and apparently referred to some particular place here.

Hope this helps! –

 

[rosary_kat]

It is a poem or song concerning St. Francis of Assisi. It may originally have been a sequence (see here), though the sequences were abolished at Trent and a quick search finds your example discussed as being in present use some two centuries later in this 1784 book. The text says,
Procession of Cordon*, which each month is done in our Convents, with the Venerable Third Order in attendance. Having confessed, and communicated, each one gains a plenary Indulgence; and not having done it, only one hundred days of Indulgence.

While the Procession straightens out, the Aña** is sung. Crucis apparet, . . . .]. Afterward, it continues by singing the Hymn of Our Lady, Ave Maris Stella, &c., and later of our Seraphic F[ather] Saint Francis, and in the three first lienzos*** the Community waits, while the Cross is incensed, which the Priest carries, and the Images of the Immaculate Conception, and our Seraphic Father.

• One definition of “Cordon” is "the girdle by which monks tie up their habits.
  ** “Aña” means “hyena,” so either it has another meaning here that I don’t know, or might be something like a short form for antifona, “antiphon.”
  *** “Lienzo” means a strip of cloth or linen, but can mean a stretch of a wall or face of a building, and apparently referred to some particular place here.

Hope this helps! –

Wow, thank you. I have a Latin Word program in which I can type a latin word and it gives me a definition. If I take it word for word it comes out something like this:

Cross apparent victim wagon (on which gods were carried in public spectacle) into cross forearm 6 (in answer to the question, ‘how many?’) nourish cover different at the head of facial expression elegance where understand heart attract augment he (God-given) talent

If it is, indeed, referring to St. Francis, perhaps it’s the famous scene when Christ reaches down from the cross to embrace Francis. Oh, this is exciting.

:extrahappy::dancing::yyeess:

 

[ProVobis]

Cross apparent victim wagon (on which gods were carried in public spectacle) into cross forearm 6 (in answer to the question, ‘how many?’) nourish cover different at the head of facial expression elegance where understand heart attract augment he (God-given) talent

We’ll give you an A for effort. That would have been a tough one for anyone who wasn’t familiar with the order. A lot of those words could mean multiple things.

 

[MarkThompson]

Wow, thank you. I have a Latin Word program in which I can type a latin word and it gives me a definition. If I take it word for word it comes out something like this:

Cross apparent victim wagon (on which gods were carried in public spectacle) into cross forearm 6 (in answer to the question, ‘how many?’) nourish cover different at the head of facial expression elegance where understand heart attract augment he (God-given) talent

If it is, indeed, referring to St. Francis, perhaps it’s the famous scene when Christ reaches down from the cross to embrace Francis. Oh, this is exciting.

:extrahappy::dancing::yyeess:

It is absolutely about St. Francis. (That is what De eodem here means: “Concerning the same person [as the previous one]”). I have tried translating late Latin liturgical poetry of this sort before, and am very bad at it, but just to exercise my Latin muscle I’ll see what I can do:

The victim of the cross appears
His arms stretched on the cross
Covered by six variegated wings
And with refinement of countenance,

Which draws toward it the heart of Francis
Increasing his charisms,
And its stigmata
It brings forth in his flesh.

That’s the version from Analecta Hymnica, whose last two lines your patient’s copy seems to be lacking. (And don’t take that translation to a publisher; it’s highly mediocre at best. ) The poem appears to be referring to St. Francis’ vision of a seraph (six-winged angel), in which, if I recall, he received his stigmata.

P.S., is there any chance of our seeing a scan or photo of the document? You generally can never find the music that accompanied the hymns and sequences in Analecta Hymnica, but if I can make it out I’d be willing to try to put it in legible form for people and, presto, we’d have a hymn to St. Francis. Since it’s your patient’s, not yours, that might be difficult, but I thought I’d ask.

 

[rosary_kat]

And further searching has found this:
(Click to enlarge)

 

[rosary_kat]

It is absolutely about St. Francis. (That is what De eodem here means: “Concerning the same person [as the previous one]”). I have tried translating late Latin liturgical poetry of this sort before, and am very bad at it, but just to exercise my Latin muscle I’ll see what I can do:

The victim of the cross appears
His arms stretched on the cross
Covered by six variegated wings
And with refinement of countenance,

Which draws toward it the heart of Francis
Increasing his charisms,
And its stigmata
It brings forth in his flesh.

That’s the version from Analecta Hymnica, whose last two lines your patient’s copy seems to be lacking. (And don’t take that translation to a publisher; it’s highly mediocre at best. ) The poem appears to be referring to St. Francis’ vision of a seraph (six-winged angel), in which, if I recall, he received his stigmata.

P.S., is there any chance of our seeing a scan or photo of the document? You generally can never find the music that accompanied the hymns and sequences in Analecta Hymnica, but if I can make it out I’d be willing to try to put it in legible form for people and, presto, we’d have a hymn to St. Francis. Since it’s your patient’s, not yours, that might be difficult, but I thought I’d ask.

This is rather fun. While I’m searching and messaging, you all are responding! I love the internet. Anyway, this is where I got the scan I just posted. The patient’s pages are huge (2x4 ft) and encased in glass (front and back). But this post reproduces it pretty much like I saw it.
scribd.com/doc/22200073/Cantuale-Romano-Seraphicum-ediz-1922
(Song #89)

 

[rosary_kat]

We’ll give you an A for effort. That would have been a tough one for anyone who wasn’t familiar with the order. A lot of those words could mean multiple things.

:curtsey: Thank you. Yes, the Latin Word program gave multiple definitions. :curtsey:

 

[MarkThompson]

This is rather fun. While I’m searching and messaging, you all are responding! I love the internet. Anyway, this is where I got the scan I just posted. The patient’s pages are huge (2x4 ft) and encased in glass (front and back). But this post reproduces it pretty much like I saw it.
scribd.com/doc/22200073/Cantuale-Romano-Seraphicum-ediz-1922
(Song #89)

Haha, that’s hilarious – as you were typing, I had just found the same thing and was cutting and rearranging to form a neater package:

 

[rosary_kat]

Haha, that’s hilarious – as you were typing, I had just found the same thing and was cutting and rearranging to form a neater package:

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Now I can at least share with her that it is a song in honor of St. Francis. She’ll be thrilled! I told her I hoped she had these two sheets separately insured, because regardless of what I found, what she has is priceless!

:yeah_me::aok::egyptian:

 

[MarkThompson]

BTW, the “subtitle” of the hymn in that Cantuale you posted indicates that it would be used at the Magnificat at Second Vespers on September 17 – which is, appropriately, the Feast of the Stigmatization of St. Francis!

 

[rosary_kat]

BTW, the “subtitle” of the hymn in that Cantuale you posted indicates that it would be used at the Magnificat at Second Vespers on September 17 – which is, appropriately, the Feast of the Stigmatization of St. Francis!

So cool! :tiphat:

 

[MarkThompson]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

You’re welcome! Glad I could help!

 

[ProVobis]

Yes, the Latin Word program gave multiple definitions.

When that’s the case the chances of hitting an exact translation are infinitesimally small for that many words and cases. Unless you composed the Latin yourself and just wanted to solidify the inscription. Good thing for the internet, though.

 

[rosary_kat]

When that’s the case the chances of hitting an exact translation are infinitesimally small for that many words and cases. Unless you composed the Latin yourself and just wanted to solidify the inscription. Good thing for the internet, though.

Yes, I see that. Latin is incredibly complex. I would never have guessed the translation would have been anything like what MarkThompson proposed (however “mediocre” ).

 

[ProVobis]

Yes, I see that. Latin is incredibly complex.

Don’t give up. There are easier sentences you might want to try. Just remember, translating is not an exact science. Even math has irrational numbers. As long as you get the general gist, you’re doing okay.

 

[rosary_kat]

Don’t give up. There are easier sentences you might want to try. Just remember, translating is not an exact science. Even math has irrational numbers. As long as you get the general gist, you’re doing okay.

That’s my goal: Getting the gist.