Latinizations

[Ahimsa]

Which Latinizations does your parish still have?

Latinizations

1. Unmarried priesthood (Still generally true of Melkite clergy)
2. Statues
3. Altar rails
4. Confessional boxes
5. Stations of the Cross hanging on walls
6. 3-D Crucifixes on walls
7. Western-style paintings
8. Suppression of liturgical hours
9. Suppression of Presanctified in favour of Divine Liturgy
10. Use of Western style Mass instead of the Liturgies of St. John Crystsostom or St. Basil
11. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.
12. Introduction of Western music and songs
13. Use of musical instruments
14. Emphasizing the words of Institution and silencing the Epiklesis prayers
15. Truncation of prayers, esp. psalms in liturgies
16. Reduction of prostrations and reverences
17. Use of Genuflections, Kneeling
18. Combining Divine Liturgy with other services: marriage, funeral
19. Not distributing the antidoron
20. Elimination of using hot water during Consecration
21. Not having a curtain behind the Royal Doors
22. First Communion and Chrismation separated from Baptism

 

[chrisb]

Which Latinizations does your parish still have?

Latinizations

1. Unmarried priesthood (Still generally true of Melkite clergy)
2. Statues
3. Altar rails
4. Confessional boxes
5. Stations of the Cross hanging on walls
6. 3-D Crucifixes on walls
7. Western-style paintings
8. Suppression of liturgical hours
9. Suppression of Presanctified in favour of Divine Liturgy
10. Use of Western style Mass instead of the Liturgies of St. John Crystsostom or St. Basil
11. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.
12. Introduction of Western music and songs
13. Use of musical instruments
14. Emphasizing the words of Institution and silencing the Epiklesis prayers
15. Truncation of prayers, esp. psalms in liturgies
16. Reduction of prostrations and reverences
17. Use of Genuflections, Kneeling
18. Combining Divine Liturgy with other services: marriage, funeral
19. Not distributing the antidoron
20. Elimination of using hot water during Consecration
21. Not having a curtain behind the Royal Doors
22. First Communion and Chrismation separated from Baptism

None. Glory to Jesus Christ!

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

1. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.

The Rosary is a prayer of the Universl Church.

 

[chrisb]

The Rosary is a prayer of the Universl Church.

It started in the 12 century with Dominic. It is ‘not’ a universal piety of the Church but one unique to Medieval Roman Catholicism.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

It started in the 12 century with Dominic. It is ‘not’ a universal piety of the Church but one unique to Medieval Roman Catholicism.

INGRUENTIUM MALORUM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON RECITING THE ROSARY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN, PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
HAVING PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE

1. But it is above all in the bosom of the family that We desire the custom of the Holy Rosary to be everywhere adopted, religiously preserved, and ever more intensely practiced. In vain is a remedy sought for the wavering fate of civil life, if the family, the principle and foundation of the human community, is not fashioned after the pattern of the Gospel.

 

[chrisb]

INGRUENTIUM MALORUM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON RECITING THE ROSARY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN, PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
HAVING PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE

1. But it is above all in the bosom of the family that We desire the custom of the Holy Rosary to be everywhere adopted, religiously preserved, and ever more intensely practiced. In vain is a remedy sought for the wavering fate of civil life, if the family, the principle and foundation of the human community, is not fashioned after the pattern of the Gospel.

Fortunately the demands of your Patriarch have no force on me.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Fortunately the demands of your Patriarch have no force on me.

Religion:
Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox

so I take it you are Eastern Orthodox then.

if so, you should change your CAF religin to avoid further confusion.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Fortunately the demands of your Patriarch have no force on me.

and I wouldn’t call it demands, its catholicity, not just one tradition like the orthodox has.

 

[wynd]

and I wouldn’t call it demands, its catholicity, not just one tradition like the orthodox has.

 

[Corki]

Fortunately the demands of your Patriarch have no force on me.

Then why did you respond to the OP’s question? This is the Eastern Catholicm forum. The OPs question is about Latinizations your parish still has. That’s a question of relevance to Eastern Catholics but not an issue for those of the Orthodox Churches.

 

[dvdjs]

None. Glory to Jesus Christ!

Chris, I am not sure what jurisdiction you are entering, or your parish, but I’ll stil make a bet that you are wrong in your answer.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Which Latinizations does your parish still have?

Latinizations

1. Unmarried priesthood (Still generally true of Melkite clergy)
2. Statues
3. Altar rails
4. Confessional boxes
5. Stations of the Cross hanging on walls
6. 3-D Crucifixes on walls
7. Western-style paintings
8. Suppression of liturgical hours
9. Suppression of Presanctified in favour of Divine Liturgy
10. Use of Western style Mass instead of the Liturgies of St. John Crystsostom or St. Basil
11. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.
12. Introduction of Western music and songs
13. Use of musical instruments
14. Emphasizing the words of Institution and silencing the Epiklesis prayers
15. Truncation of prayers, esp. psalms in liturgies
16. Reduction of prostrations and reverences
17. Use of Genuflections, Kneeling
18. Combining Divine Liturgy with other services: marriage, funeral
19. Not distributing the antidoron
20. Elimination of using hot water during Consecration
21. Not having a curtain behind the Royal Doors
22. First Communion and Chrismation separated from Baptism

My parish has NONE of these.

My priest is celibate, but that in and of itself is NOT a Latinization. Another priest ordained the same year he was was married, my priest CHOSE to be a celibate pirest.

 

[Peter_J]

It started in the 12 century with Dominic. It is ‘not’ a universal piety of the Church but one unique to Medieval Roman Catholicism.

It wouldn’t call it a “Latinization” however.

 

[mardukm]

Can I ask why a confessional box is considered a Latinization? Are another person’s sins supposed to be exposed to the public at large, or is it supposed to be private to a priest?

I don’t think certain things from the Latins that do not inherently oppose the particular spirituality/theology of the Easterns/Orientals need to be regarded as an invasion of Latinization.

For instance, personally speaking as a Copt (an Oriental, not an Eastern), I wouldn’t mind the stations of the cross. Orientals in general have a penitential spirituality anyway, and meditating on the sufferings of the Lord is a wholesome thing. I can certainly understand if Eastern Catholics don’t appreciate it, but for Oriental Catholics, can’t it be a matter of choice for the local bishop without someone charging the Orientals of accepting Latinizations?

And while I’m on the topic, what is it about the Rosary that would be opposed to the spirituality and theology of the Easterns and Orientals?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Peter_J]

and I wouldn’t call it demands, its catholicity, not just one tradition like the orthodox has.

Why wynd, didn’t you read the “Orthodox have only one tradition” thread?

(I have no idea what I’m talking about.)

 

[Peter_J]

Religion:
Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox

so I take it you are Eastern Orthodox then.

if so, you should change your CAF religin to avoid further confusion.

It’s only confusing if you don’t read the part that says “Orthodox”.

I mean, even I was able to figure it out.

 

[Peter_J]

But seriously …

Which Latinizations does your parish still have?

Latinizations

1. Unmarried priesthood (Still generally true of Melkite clergy)
2. Statues
3. Altar rails
4. Confessional boxes
5. Stations of the Cross hanging on walls
6. 3-D Crucifixes on walls
7. Western-style paintings
8. Suppression of liturgical hours
9. Suppression of Presanctified in favour of Divine Liturgy
10. Use of Western style Mass instead of the Liturgies of St. John Crystsostom or St. Basil
11. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.
12. Introduction of Western music and songs
13. Use of musical instruments
14. Emphasizing the words of Institution and silencing the Epiklesis prayers
15. Truncation of prayers, esp. psalms in liturgies
16. Reduction of prostrations and reverences
17. Use of Genuflections, Kneeling
18. Combining Divine Liturgy with other services: marriage, funeral
19. Not distributing the antidoron
20. Elimination of using hot water during Consecration
21. Not having a curtain behind the Royal Doors
22. First Communion and Chrismation separated from Baptism

Generally, I think your list is pretty good, Ahimsa.

#1 might be clearer if you said “Mandatory celibacy for priests”

In #11, I wouldn’t necessarily consider the Rosary to be a latinization (as I said before). It would depend on the situation.

P.S. # 10 is pretty extreme. I don’t think I would call that “latinization” but just “going Latin”.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Which Latinizations does your parish still have?

I attend (at times) St. Ignatios of Antioch Melkite-Greek Catholic Church in Augusta, GA.

1. Unmarried priesthood

The pastor is a married priest and was originally ordained in the Orthodox Church.

1. Statues

No statues. LOTS of Icons.

1. Altar rails

No, only an iconostasis.

1. Confessional boxes

None.

1. Stations of the Cross hanging on walls

None.

1. 3-D Crucifixes on walls

None.

1. Western-style paintings

Not even one.

1. Suppression of liturgical hours

Nope.

1. Suppression of Presanctified in favour of Divine Liturgy

Nope.

1. Use of Western style Mass instead of the Liturgies of St. John Crystsostom or St. Basil

NEVER.

1. Introduction of Western prayers: the Rosary, etc.

Not one Western prayer or devotion is even mentioned.

1. Introduction of Western music and songs

Not once.

1. Use of musical instruments

Never.

1. Emphasizing the words of Institution and silencing the Epiklesis prayers

Never.

1. Truncation of prayers, esp. psalms in liturgies

Always full and unabridged, never truncated.

1. Reduction of prostrations and reverences

Nope.

1. Use of Genuflections, Kneeling

Never seen someone kneel once since I started going.

1. Combining Divine Liturgy with other services: marriage, funeral

Never.

1. Not distributing the antidoron

The antidoron is given.

1. Elimination of using hot water during Consecration

Nope.

1. Not having a curtain behind the Royal Doors

Are you kidding me?

1. First Communion and Chrismation separated from Baptism

Never.

www.melkite.net

 

[Ahimsa]

Can I ask why a confessional box is considered a Latinization?..

You’ll have to ask the Melkites.

 

[Patchunky]

It started in the 12 century with Dominic. It is ‘not’ a universal piety of the Church but one unique to Medieval Roman Catholicism.

Then why was St. Seraphim of Sarov so dedicated to it’s use?