LATINOS Turning to ISLAM

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From The San Antonio Express-News Jan25,’ 05

Curiosity spawned by 9-11 leads some to convert to Islam. Islam now is converting 20,000 per year in the U.S. An estimate shows 8 million Muslims in the U.S. now.

Of the 20,000 converts per year the Council on American-Islamic Relations 6 % are Hispanics, mostly Catholics.Edwin Hernandez director for the Center of Latino Religion at Notre Dame University calls this a religious phenomenon. In the U.S. there are approximately 50,000 Latino Muslim converts.Y

Yousef Said, the Imaam of the San Antonio Islamic Center said,“People came to us wanting to know what Islam is. When they heard the truth about Islam, they started believing and then they joined us”.

Juan Galvan grew up in West Texas ( Lubbock) and attended the University of Texas (Austin). He had been Baptised and Confirmed a Catholic. He drifted away from the Church as a teen ager. He Was introduced to Islam while a student in Austin. His friends thought he, a Mexican-American American would not become a Muslim. But he did. Now he is the vice-president of the Latino American Dawah Organizarion. It was founded in New York in 1997. Galvan is now authoring a book on thee topic.

Doria Garza was raised in a Catholic home in San Antonio. She is 40 aand became a Muslim at age 28. She said she like the way Muslims treat women with respect. In fact most of thee converts to Islam are women.

Linguistic and cultural obstacles are problematic. Stereotyping aand even harrasment occurs. Going into a supermarket with a head covering and the long loose dresses cause a lot of quizical looks ffor the new Moslim. Doria says she is embarrased and goes at night when there are fewer customers. She says she has been told that she wouldn’t be a Muslim for long because Mexicans are promiscuous. Shee’s been told she wasn’t a real Muslim.
  • Now here is what I want to ASK. All of these Hispanics were Catholic from birth. All drifted away from the Catholic Church. All became Muslims. WHY? I ask WHY? How did the Catholic Church fail? You will have to admit she failed these people?
    (addendum) I have been living in the same house for 44 years, and not once has a priest, another Catholic or committee member has come to this house or - even phoned. No one encouraged me to keep going to my Church. There are about 3000 members so I guess I got lost. But for those Hispanics who went to Muslimism I bet no one ever talked to them either. Do we Catholics act to stand- offish? How to slow down the # of converts to Islam.
 
The problme is complex, yet one of the main reasons is many people over the last 30 years or so have received a truly horrible formation in the Catholic faith. No person, who truly understands that Christ is God could ever leave the faith.

Formation of the young is the key. The problem is there is less good formation today then there was 30 years ago…most Catholics get their formation from RE classes once a week.

It would help to introduce Bible Study into children’s lives at an early age like the Protestants do…kids love the stories and if they learn that the faith is also Bible based, it might give them more teeth to their own beliefs. Most of the RE formation is sacramental prep in nature.
 
Islam has some discipline and “teeth” to it that the mushy modern AmChurch doesn’t. I know protestants who left the Catholic Faith for the same reason–that the clergy’s watered down teachings from the pulpit didn’t “call them forth” like the passionate sermons and daily bible study groups did in their present denomination.

A lot of Catholics don’t know WHY theologically why they are Catholic.
But they instictively hunger for something meaningful, and when the Church fails them with not providing a detailed and inspired catechesis, they may be ignorant of the fullness of faith in Catholicism, but they go where they “think” they are getting something more pressing and more passionate for God.

Secondly, Islam appeals to MEN, who think that Christianity is a woman’s religion, sapping men of their masculinity.
 
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jlw:
Islam has some discipline and “teeth” to it that the mushy modern AmChurch doesn’t. I know protestants who left the Catholic Faith for the same reason–that the clergy’s watered down teachings from the pulpit didn’t “call them forth” like the passionate sermons and daily bible study groups did in their present denomination.

A lot of Catholics don’t know WHY theologically why they are Catholic.
But they instictively hunger for something meaningful, and when the Church fails them with not providing a detailed and inspired catechesis, they may be ignorant of the fullness of faith in Catholicism, but they go where they “think” they are getting something more pressing and more passionate for God.

Secondly, Islam appeals to MEN, who think that Christianity is a woman’s religion, sapping men of their masculinity.
BAM! on the head.
 
Please notttice in the first post that at least one woman said she liked the Muslim treatment of women. I was shocked! Then the Center at Notre Dame said most Islamic converts were women.
I know they treat women differently in the US than in the Middle East. Why is that?
 
This is very interesting thread and worrying, the cathequesis and better formation, is necessary and the church have to think that islamism is a challenge and don´t have fear, greetings
 
FWIW the estimates of the number of Muslims tends to be grossly overstated. I would take the 8MM number with a grain of salt…like that 50 lb brick my horse licks.

Becoming a Muslim and staying a Muslim is EASY in comparison to other faiths. You just say you are a Muslim. That’s it. Of course there are the five pillars but no one kicks you out of the mosque if you fail to adhere to them. It’s really quite an anonymous faith in comparison to the “groupie” approach of Christianity or Judaism.

I don’t see the appeal frankly.

Lisa N
 
Not meaning to stereotype, but Islam also finds alot of their converts in the prison system. Most of the prison population is made up of African Americans and Hispanics who look for a strict moral code like Islam or may even turn to Islam in order to “stick it to the man”. The disenfranchised will always seek out groups which oppose those they perceive to be in power, in this case Christians. I think you’ll find that as Hispanics and African Americans become more inegrated into society and more affluent, then conversions to Islam will decrease.

Islam is still stuck in the middle ages and doesn’t appeal to higher western culture generally. Unless it changes it will remain a relgion of nomads and of those on the fringe of western society.
 
I can speak from some experience because my wife is Latina. Most Latinos/Hispanics have not been well catechised in the Faith. Many are culturally Catholic but they could not tell you why they are Catholic - if they ARE Catholic. Many Mexicans have a devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe but do not know or live the Catholic Faith. This problem exists throughout Latin America.

Baptists, Mormons, JWs, Fundamentalists, Pentacostals, etc. all see Latin America as fertile ground for conversion. They send missionaries throughout the region with the goal to convert as many as they can. All it takes are some of the standard tactics - “Where is that in the Bible?” “Are you saved?” and many are hooked. Why would the Muslims be any different?

Many American Catholics see and think primarily of the Church in the United States without thinking much of it in the rest of the world, especially our neighbors to our south. If you think the Church is in trouble in the United States, the Church faces far greater problems in Latin America. It is well past time that American Catholics woke up and opened their eyes to what is going on around them.
 
I recently heard a talk on this subject. Everyone is correct in their statements. The other scary part to this story are the numbers. Unfortunately, the number are huge. France is closing catholic churches and mosques are cropping up everywhere 😦 . History is repeating itself in Europe in regard to muslims.

It’s true we have generations of uncatechized adults. Young adults want the truth and they’re not hearing anything at mass. Then they hear someone speak about their faith with zeal and conviction. They want that for themselves after all we’re all searching. They apostosize(sp?) and become born again or even worst muslim. 😦 😦 😦

I mean really. The latina in the article is embarrassed to go out in public in muslim garb. How can that be better than being catholic. The answer is strong catechesis for everyone. Why has this not been happening? There’s that agenda again. :mad:
 
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catholicwife:
I recently heard a talk on this subject. Everyone is correct in their statements. The other scary part to this story are the numbers. Unfortunately, the number are huge. France is closing catholic churches and mosques are cropping up everywhere 😦 . History is repeating itself in Europe in regard to muslims.

It’s true we have generations of uncatechized adults. Young adults want the truth and they’re not hearing anything at mass. Then they hear someone speak about their faith with zeal and conviction. They want that for themselves after all we’re all searching. They apostosize(sp?) and become born again or even worst muslim. 😦 😦 😦

I mean really. The latina in the article is embarrassed to go out in public in muslim garb. How can that be better than being catholic. The answer is strong catechesis for everyone. Why has this not been happening? There’s that agenda again. :mad:
I am in RCIA now and I am amazed at how many sponsers are “cradle catholics” and don’t know why we ( catholics ) do what we do! Most say they do it ( rituals etc. ) because they were told to. They don’t really know the reason behind it.😦 They are learning as much as the catacumens. I have heard them say every cradle Catholic should go through the RCIA program:D
 
From what I hear, Islam has a high regard for social justice as the Catholics do. It almost sounds like the women want to convert, because they are given more protection. It seems a lot of the ideas of protection of the widow and the children, has more or less been thrown out. Maybe you’ll get some help from the government in the developed West, but at the same time the government doesn’t also make sure that there is a personal relationship that goes along with that.

If there was do you think we’d have that same view as a whole on euthenasia? Not meaning those who read the board so much. We have plently of people who seem to think that they are useless as soon as they are not able to add anything economically, and there is no help from a family that doesn’t want to talk to them.

We also have an idea divorce is great for women’s rights. Now when you think of it, women tend to get left with the children more often than not. At the same time women have an equal place in the workplace. No neccassarly a bad thing, but when it comes to getting left with the kids, you get yourself put with an extra burden with the kids and that takes away time from your work. Say there is the father, having to make the child support payments, it forces him to work even more. Working even more, he can merit job advancements easier. Sounds like the man is at the advantage in the workplace, and the woman has not gotten any more respect than the man. Then if the man just skips on the child support, it’s even worse for the woman. That’s our Christian West.

Not to say that that is who we as Christians think we should act, but because Christianity has been here for so long, it gets tangled up with these ideas of enlightenment. Islam is something different, much the same way when Christianity first came on the scene in the times of Rome. During those times it was due to the money of the women that helped kept the Chuch going, because they preached things like taking care of widows and children.

Don’t forget it’s really the converts that really have a lot of zeal, since they actually have to make a descion to cut out the old, for something new. They need to be conviced. But one day you’ll have enlightned muslims, who don’t exactly follow the tough family values ideas and with badly taught children. Just some of my thoughts.
 
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jlw:
Islam has some discipline and “teeth” to it that the mushy modern AmChurch doesn’t. I know protestants who left the Catholic Faith for the same reason–that the clergy’s watered down teachings from the pulpit didn’t “call them forth” like the passionate sermons and daily bible study groups did in their present denomination.

A lot of Catholics don’t know WHY theologically why they are Catholic.
But they instictively hunger for something meaningful, and when the Church fails them with not providing a detailed and inspired catechesis, they may be ignorant of the fullness of faith in Catholicism, but they go where they “think” they are getting something more pressing and more passionate for God.

Secondly, Islam appeals to MEN, who think that Christianity is a woman’s religion, sapping men of their masculinity.
I know I am going to zapped on this one but modern day Catholcism is suffering from the women’s relgiion syndrome.
THe post Vatican 2 church leaves little room for men.
The only man I see doing church funtions on Sunday is the priest.
Lets see the choir dirctor is a woman. The choir mostly women. The lector a woman. The altar girls greatly outnumber the altar boys. The same with the eucharisitc ministers. Considering we are supposed to foster vocations I think more and more we need to reestablish the masculine around the altar and maybe having stricly altar boys would be better practice. The altar girls are not thinking gee I want to be a priest one day and sadly eneough the boys don’t even close to the altary these days.

I could be wrong but I live in a blue state and in blue state catholcism women dominate.
 
Speaking as a “latino” (I really hate that term), I’d say that ppl leaving the church, especially those that are of Latin American descent doesn’t surprise me. I think that if these ppl are so easily swayed by other religions then we’re better off as a Church without them. Not all will be saved.
 
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Maccabees:
I know I am going to zapped on this one but modern day Catholcism is suffering from the women’s relgiion syndrome.
THe post Vatican 2 church leaves little room for men.
The only man I see doing church funtions on Sunday is the priest.
Lets see the choir dirctor is a woman. The choir mostly women. The lector a woman. The altar girls greatly outnumber the altar boys. The same with the eucharisitc ministers. Considering we are supposed to foster vocations I think more and more we need to reestablish the masculine around the altar and maybe having stricly altar boys would be better practice. The altar girls are not thinking gee I want to be a priest one day and sadly eneough the boys don’t even close to the altary these days.

I could be wrong but I live in a blue state and in blue state catholcism women dominate.
Right on the money.

I live in a blue state too. And many a parish here are exactly like the one you are talking about.

My parish is like an oasis in the desert though. Only male lecterns, only alter boys, no “aunt edna” eucuristic ministers.

I was talking to a parent of one of the alter boys last year and she said “As soon as you put girls on the alter, the boys will disappear.” I think she’s right.
 
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jlw:
Right on the money.

I live in a blue state too. And many a parish here are exactly like the one you are talking about.

My parish is like an oasis in the desert though. Only male lecterns, only alter boys, no “aunt edna” eucuristic ministers.

I was talking to a parent of one of the alter boys last year and she said “As soon as you put girls on the alter, the boys will disappear.” I think she’s right.
I think I am going to start driving to the abbey which acutally has men serving and the gregorain chant to boot.
Look I was a boy the coolest things were the all boy things the boy scouts, little league, boys like to be in boys club the altar boy was an all boys club a nice gig which you cold make a few bucks at weddings and funerals. As soon as altar girls are introduced its not cool anymore it becomes effiminate. Cause guess what grils can do it too.
No wonder our seminaries are empty?
Look I am not sexist or anythig but the way the church is structures is tha men are preist and the substrucure right now makes no sense with old ladies as eucharistic ministers and girls as altar servers. We are supposed to get young men intererested in the priesthood not young girls and old ladies who want to protest the system.
 
Dj Roy Albert:
Speaking as a “latino” (I really hate that term), I’d say that ppl leaving the church, especially those that are of Latin American descent doesn’t surprise me. I think that if these ppl are so easily swayed by other religions then we’re better off as a Church without them. Not all will be saved.
This sounds harsh but in a way there’s something to it. When I attend Mass on saturday it’s mostly older people and not many, BUT everyone knows their faith and their prayers…etc. Maybe we’re better off with fewer people that know what it is to be Catholic than a large number of people that are Catholic in name only. Just something to think about…any rebuttals, I’m open minded.
 
SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, Mexico (Reuters) - Islam has joined a battle for the hearts and minds of Mexico’s volatile Tzotzil Indians in Chiapas state, home of Zapatista rebels and a hotbed of sectarian strife between Christians.

In an unlikely meeting of two worlds, an idealistic Muslim sect has converted some 300 Tzotzils, a Maya Indian group known for drink-fueled fiestas and religious fervor.

“It was difficult to learn the prayers in Arabic at first but now I have them in my heart,” said Muhammad Emin Lopez, 46, a Tzotzil fruit merchant who boasts that his conversion to Islam in 1995 was the state’s first.

He prays five times a day as required in Islam, has gone on the obligatory “haj” pilgrimage to Mecca and attends a small mosque in a cornfield on the outskirts of the hill town of San Cristobal de las Casas.

Beside the mosque, a Tzotzil woman dressed in colorful Indian garb and known by the Muslim name Karima washes clothes in a stream near ramshackle wooden houses.

The growth of Islam in such a restive area has raised the eyebrows of Mexico’s intelligence agency, wary of possible terrorist activity aimed at the neighboring United States.

But the Tzotzil Muslims have little interest in holy war, having seen religious and political conflict close up.

Many are former evangelical Protestants who were thrown out of a nearby town by fellow Tzotzils who practice a mixture of Catholicism and ancient Maya Indian rites in a conflict that began in the 1970s.

Some 30,000 Protestants have been forced from their homes and more than 100 have died in sectarian violence.

“People are full of darkness in Chiapas,” said Lopez. “The Catholics and Protestants have fought each other a lot and the Zapatistas only want to know about war, not Islam,” he said.

Several dozen Spanish missionaries who introduced Islam to Chiapas and still live here hold radical political and economic views such as wanting to do away with currencies, taxes and the nation state, but church leaders and academics say the group has no connection to violence.

The Spaniards, members of a group of mostly Western converts known as the Murabitun, failed in a bid to ally themselves with Zapatistas 10 years ago and have been relatively quiet since.

The missionaries, also active in the United States and Europe, suffered a blow when Lopez and some 80 other Tzotzils split from them several years ago in an argument over land and jobs and began worshiping on their own.

NEVER ASSIMILATED

Now numbering some 330,000, the Tzotzils in the mountains of Chiapas have never been fully assimilated into the Catholic, Hispanic world since Spain conquered Mexico in the 1500s.

Along with other poor Maya Indians, they form the backbone of the Zapatista guerrillas, who staged an uprising in Chiapas in 1994 and have now retired to bases in the jungle.

The Catholic Church has only a tenuous hold over the Tzotzils, some of whom sacrifice chickens in church and down moonshine known as “posh” during nominally Christian rites…

infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050127155725564
 
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