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zenith15
Guest
It says in the Rule of St. Benedict “Not to speak vain words or such as move to laughter”. Does this mean laughter is wrong?
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patrick457
Guest
Don’t think so. It isn’t that laughter itself is bad (otherwise, the world would be a dead boring place to live in), but that monastic life should be serious (note: not ‘dour’) - you absolutely have no time to crack low jokes or make fun of another person. (You also have to consider the historical context here: in ancient Rome, coarse, bawdy humor was common - understandable why St. Benedict would want to ban that.) It’s not as if you can’t laugh or be cheerful or something: note, “vain” - useless - “words.” In other words, one might laugh, but don’t laugh boisterously or immoderately or make coarse jests. You’d find that if you read the other parts of his Rule.
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irenaeuslyons
Guest
A time to weep, and a time to laugh. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
Eccles 3:4
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Lasting_faith
Guest
Laughter is not a sin, the place where you laugh may make it a sin, but sometimes it is impossible to NOT laugh, no matter where you are or what did happen. I remember when my granny was in the kitchen and somehow did manage to drop all the pots from the shelf and I did run to see if she was OK only to see that she had one pot on her head, try not to laugh. (I really did do my best but…) And sometimes the situation is such that you can’t help yourself and you crack a sit-joke. (They are the best.) Laughter is what keep us going when every else is against us, my grandpa was like me, a good and snappy comeback is what save most of the situations you end up in. If you only would know how hard it is for me to not write something wrong and disrespectful on this forum, but so far I have been able to control myself but…so laugh and the world will laugh with you, I don’t remember who did say that.
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Petaro
Guest
How tempting this form of humour is and how sad it will be disallowed in heaven. But such is the way of charity, a very hard mistress. Sometimes I excuse a good so smart slap down as being good for the other’s soul, but I know it is only vanity.But strong silly humour is always fun and innocent.
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Avila123
Guest
Here is the context (I underlined the words in question):
The Benedictines I have seen on television, smile and laugh, so I can only assume that the rule is about careless, unkind and unthinking chatter that causes a person to be unkind and hurtful to others or which leads one into sin. However, I am sure that there is a Poster who is more knowledgeable on the Benedictine Order who can add further clarity.
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Lasting_faith
Guest
Faith is about joy, and joy and laughter are always connected. Is it wrong to have fun? That depend on what we think fun is. If it is fun to mock someone, in order to make others laugh it is a sin, but if it make all laugh it can’t be wrong.
Too often we think faith is all about being “holy” and always make sure nobody will have any fun. We forbid what is “normal” because we think that is our key to Heaven. What is normal is not sin, to laugh is not sin and to have fun is not sin. There are situations when we need to act in a certain manner, or we think so, but we are perfect in Gods eyes, and God love what we are, not what we try to bee. To be a “good” Christian is not a role in a play, it is to face life as we are. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think the CCC nor The RCC forbid laughter or having fun.) We often see pictures of Christ smiling, and I am sure He also did laugh. Christians are “normal” people. We are what God made us, and since we can laugh it must be right. And we all know that priests do know the best jokes, don’t we? The road to Heaven may be narrow, but straight and full of joy, full of happiness and full of good deeds we can do while we walk that narrow path. We can laugh, if not we are soon grumpy and old. This life on earth is where we show that we are worthy the price, the chair at that supper table God have for those who make it, and God want us all to make it. Do anyone of you think I would have made this last twenty years without my sarcasm, sense of humor and laughter? Sure, there have been days when I have been crying, days of despair, but then I think about something nice, and all is well again. I remember better days, but I love the life I have now, and would not want anything else then this life, fun and laughter is the reason I am still around, and I think we all need to laugh. As long as we feel good we don’t sin, that I am sure about, and I am sure about one thing more, there are a lot of laughter in Heaven. If someone think he or she will make to Heaven by being sad and gloomy, always seeking sin or something to judge, he or she is wrong, so wrong. But there is a time and place for everything, more we don’t need to know.
Too often we think faith is all about being “holy” and always make sure nobody will have any fun. We forbid what is “normal” because we think that is our key to Heaven. What is normal is not sin, to laugh is not sin and to have fun is not sin. There are situations when we need to act in a certain manner, or we think so, but we are perfect in Gods eyes, and God love what we are, not what we try to bee. To be a “good” Christian is not a role in a play, it is to face life as we are. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think the CCC nor The RCC forbid laughter or having fun.) We often see pictures of Christ smiling, and I am sure He also did laugh. Christians are “normal” people. We are what God made us, and since we can laugh it must be right. And we all know that priests do know the best jokes, don’t we? The road to Heaven may be narrow, but straight and full of joy, full of happiness and full of good deeds we can do while we walk that narrow path. We can laugh, if not we are soon grumpy and old. This life on earth is where we show that we are worthy the price, the chair at that supper table God have for those who make it, and God want us all to make it. Do anyone of you think I would have made this last twenty years without my sarcasm, sense of humor and laughter? Sure, there have been days when I have been crying, days of despair, but then I think about something nice, and all is well again. I remember better days, but I love the life I have now, and would not want anything else then this life, fun and laughter is the reason I am still around, and I think we all need to laugh. As long as we feel good we don’t sin, that I am sure about, and I am sure about one thing more, there are a lot of laughter in Heaven. If someone think he or she will make to Heaven by being sad and gloomy, always seeking sin or something to judge, he or she is wrong, so wrong. But there is a time and place for everything, more we don’t need to know.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Remember to keep in mind that the Rule of St Benedict, is for monastics.
It can be used within reason by lay people, but a novice will have the advantage of having a Novice Master explaining the rule.
Laughter is good, but telling a joke to a fellow monk before Vespers, which causes that monk to laugh through the service is not conducive toward prayer.
Jim
It can be used within reason by lay people, but a novice will have the advantage of having a Novice Master explaining the rule.
Laughter is good, but telling a joke to a fellow monk before Vespers, which causes that monk to laugh through the service is not conducive toward prayer.
Jim
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crenfro
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my :twocents:
Joy is better than laughter.
Joy is better than laughter.
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Jeanne1184
Guest
When I first read that laughter was fraught with danger on the spiritual path, I thought it was a mistaken idea. However, further study uncovered the basis for the thinking.
I came into this world with a core anger/rage that was ‘tamped’ down in various ways by socialization that produced a ‘personality’. Anger is energy and it must go somewhere - inward or outward.
Anger builds up and ‘vents’. It was surprising to me, at first, that laughter was one of the ways of venting - along with sex, sarcasm (used to be my chief vent technique, unknown to me, of course), cussing/swearing, etc.
Laughter most often involves putting down people, places and things in order to make oneself appear ‘better than’.
By the writings of others, I found that when I hear something that goes against my natural way of thinking - there’s a nugget of gold in there somewhere. The spiritual path swims upstream.
I didn’t just believe what I’d read. I put the focus on being aware of the things I laughed at, the types of TV shows I watched…and discovered for myself that what they said was true for me as well. I didn’t just zealously say, “I’m never going to laugh again.”
I also discovered that before one comes to the ‘other side’ of Joyful, innocent laughter, one becomes a cosmic killjoy in the company of others - thus the lonely path of becoming ‘in the world but not of it’. There’s really no workable compromise in hanging around those who have no interest in ‘making the flesh a footstool’.
Just a few things collected on the topic of laughter:
*Cruelty and Laughter *by Simon Dickie - "Ridiculing and inflicting pain were everyday amusements, and powerful forces were defending them. Violence, intolerance, and schadenfreude were all tolerated as unavoidable side effects of British liberty, if not its very foundation.
The victims are helpless and vulnerable. Those who mock them are delighting in their superiority and good fortune; they are indulging the “Sudden Glory” that Hobbes describes in his famous analysis of laughter:
The rush of glee caused “by the apprehension of some deformed thing in another, by comparison whereof they suddenly applaud themselves.”
The cruelty of certain types of humor.
Hester Chapone: On laughing at things not funny:
“Call it seriously to mind, when you are comfessing your faults to Almioghty God and, be fully persuaded, that it is not one of the least which you have to repent of.”
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DaveBj
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Not just St. Benedict, but as I’ve been reading through the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers, I’ve noticed that several of them have been down on humor and laughter.
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Lasting_faith
Guest
So you are saying that laughing is sin? I don’t get it, priests laughs, nuns and monks do it, it is normal and most certainly not a sin. How dark and gloomy is your life, we don’t buy the ticket to Heaven by being somber and sad all the time, at least I hope not. It is in The Bible, it is a time to laugh and a time to cry, and yes, it is true, there is a time and place for everything, but this is…I can’t understand it. (I must reprimand “my” priest next time he come because he like to laugh and we often have fun while he is here, and that can’t be a sin?) Please tell me that you are kidding, please, it can’t be like this. You are saying that we must be sorry all the time and behave like someone have died in the family if we want to be saved? No fun, no laughing, not a smile, watch only the TV news and try not to laugh what ever there may be, never enjoy anything, sounds like hell to me. Well, while I am waiting for a answer I may as well go and whip myself and tore my cloths apart…(This can’t be true.)
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fred_conty
Guest
If laughter is wrong, then Pope Francis is in big trouble.
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DaveBj
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As for my post, I’m saying nothing of the kind; I was simply expanding on the OP’s post. The Ante-Nicene Fathers put a lot of other restrictions on Christian life that are no longer practiced, like prohibiting jewelry, insisting that women be veiled in public, prohibiting virgins from attending weddings, eating “fancy foods” (including foods with sauces and gravies), and so on – it’s a long list.
As for me, I love to laugh, and I love even more to make other people laugh.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Why don’t those who think laughing is sinful, just start a Catholic Taliban community, where you can keep everyone miserable and reprimand anyone who violates misery with happiness and laughter ? 
Idle chat and idle laughter were issues St Benedict was addressing in his Rule, which was for monks.
Again, reading the Rule of Life without proper instruction, ends up with some of the faulty ideas expressed in this thread.
Jim
Idle chat and idle laughter were issues St Benedict was addressing in his Rule, which was for monks.
Again, reading the Rule of Life without proper instruction, ends up with some of the faulty ideas expressed in this thread.
Jim
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thistle
Guest
Do you honestly think from the birth of Jesus to his death that he never laughed??
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fred_conty
Guest
St. Mathew has an incident that I’m sure Jesus thought humorous.
Jesus had fed 4,000 people on one side of the sea of Galliee, then went to the other side and and fed 5000 more. Then after this the apostles got into the boat with Jesus and were on their way back to the other side. One of the apostles asked what are we going to eat, and another apostle held up one loaf of bread. And they disheartened because they didn’t know what they were going to eat.
This is when Jesus made a comment, something like, you mean to tell me after you saw what I did for all those people, you still wonder what you are going to eat.
This must have left him scratching his head. Really boys, you are amazing!
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Laughter is sin that originates from within the darkness of the unconscious. Humor, on the other hand, is the good spirit that manifests itself from within the fruit of the soul. The truly spirited person laughs at nothing, but can find some kind of humor in almost everything he or she sees.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
This is a contradiction.
Humor is what makes people laugh.
There is nothing in the Ten Commandments which God gave, which states, “Thou Shalt Not Laugh.”
If laughing is a sin, as you stated, people like Red Skelton and Johnathan Winters must be burning in hell for making people laugh.
Laughter is good for the soul and an physical well being.
Laughing at people for their misfortune or humiliation is when it’s sinful.
Jim
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DaveBj
Guest
“A merry heart doeth good like a medicine” – Prov 17:22a
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