Law?

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Eworms

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I’ve heard it said that breaking any law passed by government is a sin. While I am a law abiding citizen, this does raise a couple of questions for me.

Where does such an argument come from? Scripture, catechism, canon law?
If it is a sin to break any law whatsoever, does it consitute a mortal sin? How much does this depend on the law being broken? (Going 5mph over the speed limit is definitely a less serious offense than something like homicide).
Lastly, is it ever acceptable (or even appropriate) to break a particular law? Or rather, at what point does it become acceptable to break the law? I’m assuming that avoiding a forced abortion would be the right thing to do as would persevering in one’s faith even if Catholicism were to be outlawed, but what about something less serious?
 
This may help a little bit-it’s from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2254 Public authority is obliged to respect the fundamental rights of the human person and the conditions for the exercise of his freedom.

2255 It is the duty of citizens to work with civil authority for building up society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom.

2256 Citizens are obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order. “We must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29).

2257 Every society’s judgments and conduct reflect a vision of man and his destiny. Without the light the Gospel sheds on God and man, societies easily become totalitarian.
 
Thank you, that’s definitely helpful.

I’m still a little curious especially regarding the questions about sin though. Has anyone else heard this or know a reason why it might or might not be true?
 
Romans chapter 13 tells us that all authority should be obeyed since all authority comes from God. The only exception to this would be if the authority enacts laws requiring disobedience to God’s law. Willful disobedience to legitimate authority would be wrong. The gravity of the law being broken would contribute to the gravity of the sinfulness of the disobedience.
 
SPQR333 said:
Romans chapter 13 tells us that all authority should be obeyed since all authority comes from God. The only exception to this would be if the authority enacts laws requiring disobedience to God’s law. Willful disobedience to legitimate authority would be wrong. The gravity of the law being broken would contribute to the gravity of the sinfulness of the disobedience.
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I have always had this understanding of law. If it is a law that controdicts God’s law, then we forget it. Otherwise we follow the law or are sinning through disobedience.

However, I have also known a priest that strongly advocated orthodxy yet said it was okay to speed. I know that a speed limit certainly isn’t “contradictory to God’s law”, so I asked if we weren’t just being lazy in our practices by claiming this. He said that law simply says that if we speed that we will get a traffic fine when caught, and if we were willing to pay, then we could speed.

Now, by that logic, if I’m willing to die or live in jail for life, I guess I could rape and kill someone right?
 
As has been pointed out, it is from St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans–all authority comes from God. One of the great errors of our time is that governmental authority comes from the people–it does not. While the people can choose who wields the authority, the very right to govern is bestowed by God Himself. However, governments cannot exceed His authority. Therefore, any law that is openly repugnant to the law of God or the natural law has no authority whatsoever behind it and can therefore be ignored. However, if we believe authority comes from the people, then anything goes–there are no limits to what the people can demand zs long as enough people demand it.

Here is some recommended reading:

Pope Gregory XVI, Cum Primum (On Civil Obedience) June 9, 1832

Pope Leo XIII, Diuturnum (On the Origin of Civil Power) June 29, 1881
 
Smber2c said:
I have always had this understanding of law. If it is a law that controdicts God’s law, then we forget it. Otherwise we follow the law or are sinning through disobedience.

However, I have also known a priest that strongly advocated orthodxy yet said it was okay to speed. I know that a speed limit certainly isn’t “contradictory to God’s law”, so I asked if we weren’t just being lazy in our practices by claiming this. He said that law simply says that if we speed that we will get a traffic fine when caught, and if we were willing to pay, then we could speed.

Now, by that logic, if I’m willing to die or live in jail for life, I guess I could rape and kill someone right?
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I was having this debate with some friends recently. The difference between speeding and raping/killing is that raping/killing is contrary to God’s law also and speeding is neutral. Some famous theologians are on each side. Bl. Duns Scotus was a supporter of the priest’s position that you mention. St. Thomas Aquinas was not. We talked to some priest friends and the Dominicans were more for the position that I support, that speeding is a sin regardless of whether you get caught and pay the fine (although paying the fine can be proper satisfaction for the sin) and the Francisicans were more for the position the priest you mention advocated. That being said, the Magisterium seems to point to the fact that it is a sin, regardless of whether you pay the fine or not (see the above cited encyclicals).
 
Eworms said:
I’ve heard it said that breaking any law passed by government is a sin. While I am a law abiding citizen, this does raise a couple of questions for me.

Where does such an argument come from? Scripture, catechism, canon law?
If it is a sin to break any law whatsoever, does it consitute a mortal sin? How much does this depend on the law being broken? (Going 5mph over the speed limit is definitely a less serious offense than something like homicide).
Lastly, is it ever acceptable (or even appropriate) to break a particular law? Or rather, at what point does it become acceptable to break the law? I’m assuming that avoiding a forced abortion would be the right thing to do as would persevering in one’s faith even if Catholicism were to be outlawed, but what about something less serious?
Click to expand...
You may want to see this thread too.

http://http://forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=105297&highlight=civil+law
 
Eworms said:
I’ve heard it said that breaking any law passed by government is a sin. While I am a law abiding citizen, this does raise a couple of questions for me.

Where does such an argument come from? Scripture, catechism, canon law?
If it is a sin to break any law whatsoever, does it consitute a mortal sin? How much does this depend on the law being broken?
Click to expand...
One scripture is “render Caesar his due, and give to God what belongs to God”.

Aside from the obvious case of laws that command us to break the laws of the Church, to be binding a law has got to be passed by an authority that is in control. That is to say, the law has got to be enforceable and the authority has got to enforce it. So if I set myself up as “ruler of free Yorkshire” then you don’t have to obey me. If I get a few thousand guys together and seize control of Leeds, Sheffield and York, you do have to obey me if you live in those cities, but not in Bradford if Bradford is still holding out for QEII.

Laws on cannabis and the like are a grey area.
 
Eworms said:
I’ve heard it said that breaking any law passed by government is a sin. While I am a law abiding citizen, this does raise a couple of questions for me.

Where does such an argument come from? Scripture, catechism, canon law?
If?
Click to expand...
4th commandment, honor thy father and thy mother, commands obedience to all legitimate authority, which derives from God alone, begins in the family and by extension to society and its just laws. Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s–this is Christ’s take on the obedience issue. In all things that are within the legitimate authority of government and that do not contravene God’s law, we obey the government.

Whether or not breaking one or another law is sinful, mortally or venially, depends on the conditions for sin being met, including the standard moral tests. Yes it is objectively wrong, whether subjectively the person was guilty of sin in that instance, and how much, depends on the circumstances and the gravity of the matter.
 
There have been numerous debates on this forum regarding this topic usually involving speeding, underage drinking and marijuana. Here is my opinion and I fully believe it is the correct one:

You can break any man made law that you want as long as it does not go against God’s law but do so at your own risk. If you are caught you must submit to the authorities and accept your punishment (a ticket, fine, community service, etc.) As long as you submit you are not sinning. I love to speed since it gets me to where I want to go faster. If I am caught I pull over and after pleading my case, if that fails I accept my ticket. I have not sinned. However, if I keep speeding refusing to pull over and endangering the lives of others in a police pursuit, now I have sinned. Finally, if a law goes against God’s law then we would morally be obligede to disobey.
 
It is wrong to train oneself to violate laws flagrantly, even if they are relatively innocuous laws that do not uphold any natural law. However, as Edmund Burke wrote, any government that passes too many laws without natural law foundation actually is training its citizens to disrespect the law. In other words, an overly large and intrusive government trains people to be immoral, as many writers from the former Soviet Union have documented.
 
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