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zerinus
Guest
Take a look at the videos:
crooksandliars.com/2007/12/12/lawrence-odonnell-blows-a-gasket/
What do you think?
crooksandliars.com/2007/12/12/lawrence-odonnell-blows-a-gasket/
What do you think?
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LaMar
Guest
Unlike Mitt Romney, O’Donnell didn’t lie in his speech.
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zerinus
Guest
Oh, there were plenty of lies. Read this reply to it by Ralph Mecham:Unlike Mitt Romney, O’Donnell didn’t lie in his speech.
romneyexperience.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mecham-letter.pdf
zerinus
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J_C
Guest
O’Donnel is a bit of a hot head in any case, and I see where he stretched things, such as saying that before 78 africans couldn’t be mormoans, which I understand is untrue.
as for commentary on the Romney speech, I listened carefully to it when he delivered it and then read the text a couple of times. while it was a good example of politcal fluffery, a romeny specialty, i was not aware of any otu and out lying in it.
mainly I thought it was interestting that the man had to come foraward to explain himself vis avis his religion, which I think is a commentary on how shy of being mainstream mormaons remain in the U.S. today.
as for commentary on the Romney speech, I listened carefully to it when he delivered it and then read the text a couple of times. while it was a good example of politcal fluffery, a romeny specialty, i was not aware of any otu and out lying in it.
mainly I thought it was interestting that the man had to come foraward to explain himself vis avis his religion, which I think is a commentary on how shy of being mainstream mormaons remain in the U.S. today.
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LaMar
Guest
First of all, Mecham impeaches himself the minute he compares O’Donnell to Hitler.
O’Donnell accused uncle Joe of racism, when he should have named Brigham Young (for all his faults, Smitty the Prophet was actually pretty progressive re race, class and sexual orientation). Utah was pro-slavery under Young. People paid tithing in slaves and the territorial government tried to list themselves as a slave state (this failed due to interference at the national level, see Quinn for more on this).
Joseph Smith was a criminal. He forfeited bail for fraud and disorderly conduct in at least one “money digging” case.
The Garden of Eden is in Missouri, according to Mormons, and that’ll be Jesus’ home. That was taught to us very clearly.
The rest is opinion, which is protected. I’m a Mormon, and I consider it a ridiculous religion too (but then I consider Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, and all other religions ridiculous in all the same ways lol).
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zerinus
Guest
You can call yourself a Mormon all you want; but it is obvious that you are not. You certainly do not speak on behalf of Mormons or Mormonism, and it is height of dishonesty and hypocrisy to claim that you do.
You have made it clear that you do not accept any of the basic tenets of Mormonism. You do not accept the Book of Mormon as scripture. You do not accept Joseph Smith as a Prophet. You do not even believe in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, or even in God!
That would be like somebody claiming to be a Catholic, and to speak on behalf of Catholicism; while at the same time admitting not to believe in any of the basic tenets of Catholicism, such as the Papacy, the Catechism, Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, Mary, Jesus, or even God!
How much credence would Catholics here give to such a guy? Well, you do just that. You claim to be a Mormon, and even attempt to speak on behalf of Mormons or Mormonism, while at the same time denying every fundamental tenet of the Church. That is hypocritical and dishonest. If you want to be a Mormon you should be a real one; or else renounce Mormonism and stop pretending to be one.
zerinus
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LaMar
Guest
LOL! When did I ever make any such claim, Brother Zerinus?
I speak for myself, and yes I am a Mormon. Same as you. Deal with it.
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zerinus
Guest
You certainly have. You have used the collective word “we” referring to yourself, implying reference to the whole Church. It may be difficult to find them, because it is difficult to devise a good search criterion to use to look for them. But if I come across some I will remind you of them. Even here when you say “I am a Mormon,” that is dishonest. You are not really a Mormon, and you should not call yourself such. You are giving people a false impression.
zerinus
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LaMar
Guest
You don’t get to tell people who and what they are. I am a Mormon. I could leave the church and I’d still be a Mormon. I’ll be a Mormon until I die. Just as D. Michael Quinn will.
For the record, neither of us speaks for the church, and anyone who is under such a silly impression should abandon it immediately. The church has a board of directors (apostles) and a P.R. firm to issue official statements. Zerinus and I simply speak from our own perspectives, as Mormons.
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zerinus
Guest
You don’t get to tell people who and what they are. I am a Mormon. I could leave the church and I’d still be a Mormon. I’ll be a Mormon until I die. Just as D. Michael Quinn will.
True up to a point only. I do not claim to speak officially on behalf of the LDS Church; but unofficially I do; because I am a Mormon, and adhere to all the basic tenets of it. You are a Mormon in name only (if at all); and you reject all the basic tenets of it. You have no right to speak on behalf of Mormonism; which unofficially you do the minute you call yourself a “Mormon”.
zerinus
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LaMar
Guest
That’s your opinion, and it’s as valid as Mr. O’Donnell’s.
True up to a point only. I do not claim to speak officially on behalf of the LDS Church; but unofficially I do; because I am a Mormon, and adhere to all the basic tenets of it. You are a Mormon in name only (if at all); and you reject all the basic tenets of it. You have no right to speak on behalf of Mormonism; which unofficially you do the minute you call yourself a “Mormon”.
zerinus
Sorry bub, I’ll continue to speak as a Mormon, which is exactly what I am. Same as you, Brigham Young, Warren Jeffs, The Sundance Kid, and Matthew Modine. You’ll just have to find some way of tolerating it.
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zerinus
Guest
That only exposes your folly. Nobody is going to take you seriously; neither Mormons nor non-Mormons.
zerinus
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LaMar
Guest
This is not a problem. Unlike you, I’m not here to preach or attempt to convert anyone. I’m not an apologist. More of a student. People are welcome to take me seriously, or not. It makes no difference.
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zerinus
Guest
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