Lay Catholics included in archdiocean bankruptcy case

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David_Paul

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Published: July 23, 2005

The Associated Press

PORTLAND - Around the middle of next month, thousands of Oregon households will get a letter informing them that, as parishioners of the 124 Catholic churches in Western Oregon, they are officially part of the class of defendants in the Portland Archdiocese’s bankruptcy case.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Elizabeth Perris formally certified the class on Friday.

The action is nearly unprecedented: Commonly, it is the plaintiffs, not the defendants, who organize as a class in civil cases.

But in this case, parishioners will argue that it is they - not the archdiocese - who own the $600 million in assets and property of the parishes.

If they lose the argument, then that money is considered fair game for the 235 men and women who have sued the church, alleging they suffered sexual abuse at the hands of priests.

In that case, the assets of the 124 parishes and three Catholic high schools in Western Oregon could be sold or mortgaged to pay the alleged victims’ claims.

But if the parishioners win, that money is off-limits to the plaintiffs; the archdiocese proper says it has only about $19 million to its name.

There are 249 claims pending against the archdiocese by people alleging they were sexually abused by priests. They are seeking more than $400 million in damages.

More than 100 cases have been settled, some dating from alleged abuse that took place as far back as 1937. Mediation is to begin on 60 more cases next month.

In July of last year, the Portland Archdiocese became the first in the nation to file for bankruptcy after victims of sexual abuse asked for hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation; the dioceses of Tucson, Ariz., and Spokane, Wash., followed suit.

Included in the class are all past and present parishioners, as well as anyone who ever made a donation to a Western Oregon parish.

Three parishioners and three priests have volunteered to be the bodily representatives of the class; all class members will be invited to attend a hearing on Oct. 12 in front of Judge Perris in Portland, at which they can object to or ask questions about their class status.

In addition to the letters, over the next two months ads will be placed in The Catholic Sentinel, and newspapers across Western Oregon, in an attempt to reach as many of the estimated 389,000 members of the class as possible.

The public notification campaign will probably cost the Archdiocese around $80,000, according to Howard Levine, an attorney representing the church.

Individual parishioners will not be named, and would not be held liable should they lose the argument, lawyers involved in the case said Friday.

Attorney Al Kennedy said individual defendants in theory could opt out, but are unlikely to since they would be added back on as individual defendants.

Kennedy, who represents the plaintiffs, said initially only the archdiocese was named as a defendant.

“The archdiocese raised a series of defenses that we had not named all necessary parties and unless we did so, we could not get relief,” he said.

The archdiocese has claimed in the past that the parishes and churches are not separate entities, including in 1990, when it claimed that its schools, as arms of the church, should be exempt from Oregon church law. The church lost that case.

newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=196324
 
This is absurd. This is definitely a violation of the First Admendment to the constitution. This judge needs to be impeached.

PF
 
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David_Paul:
But in this case, parishioners will argue that it is they - not the archdiocese - who own the $600 million in assets and property of the parishes.

If they lose the argument, then that money is considered fair game for the 235 men and women who have sued the church, alleging they suffered sexual abuse at the hands of priests.
If the Parishes involved win their case, this could have long term negative ramifications for the RCC in America. In the future, if a Parish were to decide to break ties with Rome, they would take all thier assets with them. Look what happened at St. Stanislaus in St. Louis, if you ask me, the Church would be better off mortgaging everything. They risk losing everything in the future.

Nohome
 
Nohome,

I could never picture being involved in something that would break ties with Rome–it would essentially mean I would become Protestant and lose the sacraments. It would be sad to see those parishioners do that–they would be forfeiting their faith.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Nohome,

I could never picture being involved in something that would break ties with Rome–it would essentially mean I would become Protestant and lose the sacraments. It would be sad to see those parishioners do that–they would be forfeiting their faith.
Well, defining a Parish as autonomous from the Diocese is the first step towards separation. It happened in St. Louis, it could happen again.

Nohome
 
If they don’t take over the property, they lose it. If they do something might happen someday.

I don’t understand the objection to this action.
 
Nohome,

Yes, and those parishioners will cease being Catholic…they will place tgheir faith in great jeopardy.
 
David,

Parishioners cannot run the parish themselves and still remain Catholic. They would become Protestant the moment they gain control.
 
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David_Paul:
The action is nearly unprecedented: Commonly, it is the plaintiffs, not the defendants, who organize as a class in civil cases.
Nearly unprecedented, but not entirely. The music industry recently pioneered this approach in a big way, and is apparently using its clout to get quite a few little people “spanked.”

I think this is going to become more common, suing many people.

In a bankruptcy case, though, I can see why both sides are doing what they are doing. Bankruptcy means different things, but in this case it apparently means liquidating assets to pay debts as much as possible. I just got through with a bankruptcy myself, so I know it is up the the trustee to “score” as much money as possible for the debtors. It’s like they are using the force of government to make sure the person really is liquidating assets and doing their best to pay what they can.

Any assets that are protected or exempted from the bankruptcy suit cannot be touched. Which assets those are depends on state law, but in my case I got to keep the house and cars, and all the contents of my house. The only thing they tried to sell was a stock certificate, and they tried to take my tax refunds for two years but I spent them before they could get to them. One I spent on paying it back into the government, but at least the trustee didn’t get it. 😃 After all, any creditor I actually want to pay – and there are a couple of them – I can do that myself when I have the cash, thank you. :yup:

It may be that when the assets belong to the people they will no longer be connected with Rome, but the alternative is that the assets will belong to the plaintiffs and there will be no buildings for the diocese to use for its operations. Thus the prudent short term solution may involve some transition period. This is a fascinating case. Let us not be afraid, for ultimately God will protect His Church.

Alan
 
So how are the people who where abused going to get compensation if the parishioners take over ownership of the churches? Is the Vatican going to pay or are we sending a message that what happened to them was acceptable?
 
Tort law is becoming revenge and punishment when it is designed to make an injuried party whole. We can all agree a victim needs something. But how much? Does $10 million restore a person to his pre-injured state better than $5 million or $1 million? At some point an award simply sticks it to the individual or organization which committed the tort. In the case of institutions, those who pay the settlement often had nothing at all to do with the injury.

That is not justice.
 
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David_Paul:
Tort law is becoming revenge and punishment when it is designed to make an injuried party whole.
I’m not a lawyer, but I believe tort law allows for punative damages in addition to compensation in certain cases, especially when the damages incurred are the result of criminal activity.
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David_Paul:
That is not justice.
The sex scandal and the resulting law suites are a perfect example that we do not have a justice system in America, we have a legal system.

If we had a justice system, the victims would receive adequate compensation (no more) and the offenders (including the bishops that facilitated the crimes) would all be in prison.

Nohome
 
I agree. The point to having criminal and civil law is to prevent society from tearing itself apart with endless blood feuds and litigation. Isn’t working too great right now.

Punitive damages are, of course, allowed. But once again we face the “how much?” question. In criminal law a person has a pretty good idea murder will result in a harsher penalty than purse snatching.

In tort law, nobody knows what the penalty is until it is imposed. Serve a too hot cup of coffee and it may cost you $400,000. Get the right jury and a more harmful tort may cost you nothing.

It as if running a traffic light might result in a $40 ticket or the loss of your house.

There are some who want to destroy the Catholic church and are using cases of abuse to try to do it. Juries should reject that. They could be next.
 
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David_Paul:
There are some who want to destroy the Catholic church and are using cases of abuse to try to do it. Juries should reject that. They could be next.
Yes. It is not the abusers who will pay these huge settlements, but innocent parishioners. They could also be forced to forego the use of all assets of the parishes–buildings, churches, schools, by having them liquidated by the bankruptcy court.
 
Perhaps the church should of thought of that before they tried to cover things up. The consequences of not getting rid of the priets that where abusing and changing how they handled things.
 
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Karin:
So how are the people who where abused going to get compensation if the parishioners take over ownership of the churches? Is the Vatican going to pay or are we sending a message that what happened to them was acceptable?
If you sue an individual and receive a judgment for more money than they have, you only get what the defendant can afford to give you. You don’t get to take property away from innocent people in order to get what the court has determined you deserve.

Anyway, the Vatican probably doesn’t even have that kind of money they are asking for.
 
This is just ridiculous,

I only see vengence here on the part of the claimants and attorneys, and possibly judges if they rule in their favor. Where is the justice in holding 389,000 innocent parishioners liable for the crimes and injuries caused by a few pedophile priests?:confused:

Sure many bishops have been complicit in facilitating the abuse (often on the erroneous advice of psychiatrists), I’ll say that much. But practically all of this has been blown WAY out of proportion, and has become a ruse to bring down the Catholic Church, its that simple.

It is time for the general public to take a breather and use a little common sense, rather than continue in false assumption and prejudice.

And I will leave you with this thought: **“Rome is NOT out to get your kids!” **And I will stand by that thought, even to the point of starring down the barrel of a gun…
 
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