Lay Order Carmelite or Secular Franciscan?

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Hi folks. I’m interested in becoming a lay order Carmelite or Secular Franciscan. I don’t want to bring on a competition here 🙂 but if any folks here are either, can you share what drew you to that life, what it is like, what is involved in joining or establishing a group (I’m in a small town).

Thanks!
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

The two practicing lay Religious on this site who seem to be the most frequently active are: JREducation (Franciscan) and JoySong (Carmelite). JREducation started a thread on Franciscan Mysticism and Spirituality, where he seeks to answer questions on the order. I was also considering the Lay Carmelites and the Lay Franciscans. I read somewhere that you are imbued with the spirit of the founder of your order when you join. I am not sure whether or not that is true, and I would be so grateful if someone could confirm this for me or not ❤️ . If so, I am thinking of going to the Carmelites since I would love to be more imbued with the spirituality of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Elijah.

However, there have been many great saints of both orders, and a Marian devotion is compatible with both orders so you do not need to be a Carmelite to practice Marian devotion. Have you heard of True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, montfort.org.uk/Writings/TrueDev.html, by St. Louis Mary de Montfort. This book was read and re-read in the seminary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II and constituted a “decisive turning point” in his life. He writes reflections on it here: Reflections on True Devotion to Mary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II http://www.michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm

It helps you go to: the Sacred Heart of Jesus: through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. It is a “holy slavery of love,” that is so wonderful for innumberable reasons. As His Holiness Pope John Paul II wrote, "Mary’s total relativity to Christ and through Him, to the Blessed Trinity, is first experienced in observation: “You never think of Mary without Mary interceding for you with God. You never praise or honour Mary without Mary’s praising and honouring God with you. Mary is altogether relative to God; and indeed, I might well call Her the relation to God. She only exists with reference to God. She is the echo of God that says nothing, repeats nothing, but God. If you say ‘Mary,’ She says ‘God.’ St. Elizabeth praised Mary and called Her blessed because She had believed. Mary the faithful echo of God, at once intoned: ‘Magnificat anima mea Dominium’; ‘My soul magnifies the Lord’ (Lk 1:46). What Mary did then, She does daily now. When we praise Her, love Her, honour Her or give anything to Her, it is God who is praised, God who is loved, God who is glorified, and it is to God that we give, through Mary and in Mary”(cf. Treatise on True Devotion, n. 225)

And he continues by quoting St. Louis Mary de Montfort: “All our perfection,” St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort writes, “consists in being conformed, united and consecrated to Jesus Christ; and therefore, the most perfect of all devotions is, without any doubt, that which most perfectly conforms, unites and consecrates us to Jesus Christ. Now Mary being the most conformed of all creatures to Jesus Christ, it follows that, of all devotions, that which most consecrates and conforms the soul to Our Lord is devotion to His holy Mother, and that the more a soul is consecrated to Mary, the more it is consecrated to Jesus”(Treatise on True Devotion, n. 120)

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

The most famous Franciscans who practised True Devotion to Mary to the best of my horribly imperfect knowledge are His Holiness Pope John Paul II and St. Maximilian Maria. You probably know more about Pope John Paul II than I do, but I read in a thread: Saints: How Would They Live in Today’s World?, that he prayed 5-6 hours a day, so that is probably a great secret of his sanctity! He also added the Luminous Mysteries, which suggests an amazing love for the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Polish Saint Maximilian Maria studied philosophy, theology, mathematics, and physics as a college student, before earning a doctorate in philosophy and a doctorate in theology in Rome, while suffering from tuberculosis. He became a priest, changed his name to Maria from Kolbe to venerate the Immaculate Heart of Mary, sheltered 2,000 Jews in his friary during the Holocaust, and when taken to the Auschwitz concentration camp offered to die in place of another man since that man had family and he did not as an abstinent fiar. During his time in the cell, he led the men in songs and prayer. Finally, after three weeks of dehydration and starvation, he was injected with carbolic acid and died. He is reported on the Jewish Virtual Library as Righteous Among the Nations. It shows that no matter how dire the situation God can continue to strengthen us. jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Kolbe.html.He founded Slaves of the Immaculata, www.consecration.com. He not only practiced True Devotion to Mary but seemed to devote his life to spreading an apostolic version of this devotion. One can request free information about the Militia of the Immaculata from his website. I did. 😉

The most famous Carmelite that practiced True Devotion to Mary in my ignorant opinion is St. Therese of Liseux. She is called by some “the greatest saint of modern times” for her autobiography: The Story of a Soul. I believe that she died on her deathbed of tuberculosis at 24, she said, “I have reached the point of not being able to suffer any more for to me all suffering is sweet.” I believe that she is truly exceptional for she was the patron saint of missionaries though she never went on a mission because of her great illness. However, Mother Teresa, originally named Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu, renamed herself after St. Therese of Liseux, and she is the greatest missionary recognized in the world today in my ignorant opinion. She even won a Noble Peace Prize, and her concept of doing small things with great love strikes me as remarkably similar to the writings of St. Therese of Liseux! So, it seems that the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary did answer St. Therese’s prayer - “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and, in the age to come, eternal life.” (Luke 18:29-30) Because it is still in “this life” that her legacy is spurring on missionaries today. 🙂

Other famous Franciscans with Marian devotions, though they were not devoted in the method of True Devotion to Mary to the best of my ill-informed knowledge: St. Padre Pio, who said, “The Rosary is The WEAPON”, said as many as 90 rosaries a day in a special form for which he received ecclesiastical permission. Father Thomas Euteneur, President of Human Life International, cites this in The Rosary Batters the Gates of Hell hli.org/sl_2008-10-03.html and Blessed Mother Teresa.

All Carmelites would have to have some Marian devotion, right? 🙂 So St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross must be the two famous of these. 🤷

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

Free information on devoting oneself to the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Online Adoration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament louisville-catholic.net/WebCameras/AdorationChapel/tabid/825/Default.aspx
True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin montfort.org.uk/Writings/TrueDev.html
**Secret of the Rosary ** montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html
Preparation for 33 day consecration to the Blessed Virgin saintlouisdemontfort.com/consecration.cfm
Reflections on True Devotion to Mary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II http://www.michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm
**The Glories of Mary, ** by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains Hail Holy Queen http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories.htm
On the Dolors of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains the sufferings of Our Lady http://writer.zoho.com/public/immaculate/Seven-dolors
Marialis Cultus (Apostolic Exhortation for the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary of His Holiness, February 2, 1974 by His Holiness Pope Paul VI ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6MARIAL.HTM
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus en.wikisource.org/wiki/Devotion_to_the_Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus#FIRST_POINT._.E2.80.94_The_ardent_desire_Jesus_Christ_feels_to_be_with_us.
Divine Mercy Chaplet ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm
Cathechism of the Catholic Church vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
I’m a lay carmelite novice in the same diocese as you. We meet the first Saturday of the month at Resurrection in Rochester.
Morning prayer at 9 am, community meeting at 10.
We are affiliated with O.Carm. AFAIK the closest OCDS community would be in the Twin Cities.
 
Dear Ironic,

I bless the Lord who may be calling you to follow Him in a new vocation that aspires to a deeper walk with Him. The difficulty may be in discerning where He is calling you, but there are inclinations that will persist as you sort it all out, and these will point the way.

I’m giving you a link that describes the vocation of a secular Carmelite, since I may inadvertently omit some of the FAQ’s you may have, and they will be found in the link, most likely.

Perhaps another member may furnish you with the Franciscan profile. Each order has its own drawing charism, spirituality, and mission, so when you figure that out, you’re more than half-way. 😉

I had always been devoted to Mary and the saints of Carmel, so when the nun from the Carmelite Monastery posted an invitation in our diocesan newspaper to “come and see,” I went to the first meeting and felt from the beginning that this was where God was calling me.

God bless you and help you discern His will for you.

Carole
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

Excuse me, His Holiness Pope John Paul II was a Secular Carmelite, not a Franciscan! Thank you JoySong for that website. :o

Please JoySong, another question: If someone decides to join a lay order, it seems that there is a 6 year period before one is accepted into the order. However, what if someone is planning a move within the next year or two? Can one begin the process in one city and finish it in another? Can one take a one-year break in the middle of the process if one is going abroad for a year? Thank you so much!

May the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary glorify himself in the greater way through us! Jesus, I trust in you! Jesus, I trust in you! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! Jesus, I trust in you! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! May the Holy Spirit through the Immaculate Heart of Mary gift us with the gifts that we most desperately need! Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
Please JoySong, another question: If someone decides to join a lay order, it seems that there is a 6 year period before one is accepted into the order. However, what if someone is planning a move within the next year or two? Can one begin the process in one city and finish it in another? Can one take a one-year break in the middle of the process if one is going abroad for a year? Thank you so much!
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I’m not sure who gave you this information about waiting 6 years. There is a short period of aspirancy as a novice, where the person attends several meetins to “try on” the spirit of the community and the Rule, and if they feel a genuine inspiration to continue formation, they are clothed with the scapular. That period varies according to the local statutes of each community, and can be from six months to a year.

After clothing, they attend meetings and become formed in the Rule. This is usually two years of study and trying to live the life of the secular Carmelite. After this period, they make a definitive promise and are admitted to the order, usually celebrated by a special liturgy. The Council votes on accepting the person and considers the recommendation of the Mistress of Formation who worked closely with the aspirant during this first period. After three more years, the person is eligible to make his/her final promise for life.

If you were in the midst of formation in another community, you may be able to petition for entrance into a new one, but keep in mind that the vocation is both to the life, and to a particular community. There is no automatic tranfer, so to speak, and it would depend upon the new community and their Council whether you may be admitted and permitted to continue formation there.

I hope this answers your question, but always ask for more help if you need it. 🙂

EDIT:

😊 I just realized, this total period adds up to six years, but it is six years to final promises. When you make the first promise after two years, you are admitted to the order, and share spiritually in all the benefits of every Carmelite.
 
Drforjc–how did you know which diocese I’m in? I guess it shows up on the thread header…?

Anyway, I am aware of your community, and would be interested in visiting sometime, or receiving written information. But I must say, I have a hard time seeing the 1 hr 10 min drive each way. As a working mother with young kids, my Saturdays are all about them, and that seems to swallow much of the Saturday. If I go this route, I would probably like to start one in my town. If you want to PM me, I can give you my email.

Right now, I am in a Spiritual Director prep program, and that is absorbing a good deal of my “extra time” (although in a great way) for another year and a half. So I am in the thinking, praying, gathering info stage.

Joysong, Ave Maria Sancte, thanks for your information and welcome.

I would like to hear about Secular Franciscans as well, if anyone has a connection there!

Pax et bonum!
 
Some 35 years ago I was on retreat at a monetary, while there I ask Jesus to give me some person who could help me follow Him the way He would be blessed. Out of the thousands of books there stood out a book called “A retreat with St Therese” (the little flower).

i fell in love with the simple way of self denial. To add while showering in the so very cold winter a thought cam to me that I could turn off the hot water. I told Jesus I couldn’t do that but He could! all of a sudden the water became very cold and I yelled put my arms out as though on the cross and told Jesus I loved Him. From that day on I looked for every way I could deny the flesh. Every book on St Therese came my way very miraculously and I lived that way until I moved to another city. While there I found a need to join a Carmelit group. I wanted to be a carmelite priest but that was not to be. I found much joy from being in the group which I joined about 4 years ago.
We come together each second Sunday and have questionnaire which we rad and bring back for sharing of our understanding of the readings, (biblical).

It was when the reliquary of St Therese came here that I visited her lead by a little youth. The spirit nearly pushed me over and I found a need to become deeper related to the carmilites but really to the “little way”. I have been going to the group over some 4 years and hope to be accepted soon.

The little way of St Therese is my way of living and the carmelite prayers each day/night.

There are two Carmelite priests from India where I live and they are OC (O Carm) Carmelites. The difference is that they donot spend their time in prayer but also in helping the poor (there is a huge need in India).

I hope that helps

Godbless
 
IC,
I knew where you were located b’cause I’ve visited your blog on occasion!

I’ll send you a PM when I get a chance.
 
Hi Ironic,

I am a Secular Franciscan and this is the link to the national SFO website nafra-sfo.org/

I don’t think you would have to worry about setting up any compettion as you are talking about a “calling” to a vocation and no one else can speak to what your specific calling might be.

The secular Franciscan calling is to living the gospel life in a spirit of simplicity. It is a life of the mix of contemplation and action…a deep prayer life to place one’s self at the feet of God, along with a committment to action, especially to the poor, as one’s “marching orders” derived from that prayer life. Each fraternity typically has its apostolate of action.

It would be good to attend informational sessions with each group, followed by prayer for discernment, to see which seems to call to you more. For me the choice was natural as I was pretty much always Franciscan even before I knew such a thing existed. I’ll be happy to try to answer any specific questions you might have as best I can.

In the end it will be God calling you rather than you “deciding” and it will be a matter of listening for the still, small voice.

Pace e bene
 
As for my Rochester friend, aha. So that’s how you know!

And thanks, NCJohn. I hear you about the vocation piece, so no competition–I guess the thing is Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross hit my “sweet spot” spiritually every time I read them. I also ask them to pray with me and for me often. But my life is closer to what I understand is Franciscan–I am heavily involved in a Catholic Worker house in town and teach a lot about justice and peace in the Catholic tradition. Hmmmm.

Prayers appreciated.
 
AveSantaMaria said:
Please JoySong, another question: If someone decides to join a lay order, it seems that there is a 6 year period before one is accepted into the order. However, what if someone is planning a move within the next year or two? Can one begin the process in one city and finish it in another? Can one take a one-year break in the middle of the process if one is going abroad for a year? Thank you so much! *

As Joysong has said, your information isn’t quite accurate. While it is true that it is a total of six years before one can make the Definitive Promise, one has already been accepted into the Secular Discalced Carmelites once one has entered into the period of Formation after a one-year Aspirancy.

It’s worked like this:
  1. Visit as a Guest - in my OCDS Group (being new, we’re not yet a canonically-established Community) this is for three months, but it varies from Community to Community; one may then ask to be accepted as an Aspirant.
  2. One Year of Aspirancy.
  3. At the end of the one-year Aspirancy, one may be accepted into Formation (the Clothing Ceremony). The initial Formation is for a two-year period of time at the end of which one may make the First (Temporary) Promise.
  4. Another three years in Formation at the end of which one may make the Definitive Promise.
So this adds up to a total of at six years. If a member of a Community moves and wants to join another OCDS Community, they must ask permission of the new Community to join and if permission is granted then one must get a transfer from one’s original Community. It is possible, too, to receive an official Leave of Absence for a period of time, such as for that lengthy trip abroad. 🙂

Hope that helped. 🙂
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Please JoySong, another question: If someone decides to join a lay order, it seems that there is a 6 year period before one is accepted into the order. However, what if someone is planning a move within the next year or two? Can one begin the process in one city and finish it in another? Can one take a one-year break in the middle of the process if one is going abroad for a year? Thank you so much!
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In the Secular Franciscan Order the formation period is from two years to five years. It all depends on you, the Formation Director, the Council of the Fraternity and the local Minister (Superior). The Minister has the final word regarding your progress. The Council and the Formation Director advise the Minister. They have no canonical authority or authority given them by the Rule of St. Francis. The Minister is the legitimate successor of St. Francis; therefore, he or she will make the final determination as to how quickly or slowly you move through the formation stages within the norms set forth by the Constitution.

There is a postulancy period called a period of Inquiry that lasts from six to 12 months. Then a novitiate period called a candidacy period that lasts at least 18 months.

At the end of that time, if everyone (you, the Formation Director, the Council and the local Minister) feel that you are ready to make a perpetual commitment, you can request permission from the Minister to make profession to observe the Rule of St. Francis until death. If there is some uncertainty, you can make temporary profession for up to three years. Then you have to make perpetual profession or leave the community.

The Secular Franciscans follow the the rules set in the Code of Canon Law for religious orders. This was not a decision imposed by the Church, but a decision of the General Council in Rome. The formation period may not be interrupted. However, because the commitment is to the Church and the Order, not the local fraternity, one can transfer and continue one’s formation. However, this is not usually done.

The process for transferring among the Secular Franciscans is the same as that for the Friars. The Minister (Superior) of the fraternity must authorize your transfer, the Minister of the fraternity to which you want to transfer must accept your transfer. The receiving minister can require that you begin your formation from the beginning of the stage that you’re at, although this is rare since the Rule and Constitutions of the Order are the same for the entire worldwide Order. There are few differences from one country to another.

There are some local regulations that apply to certain countries or regions in addition to the Rule and the Constitution. For example, in the United States you must be 18 to join. Not so in other countries. The habit is different from one region to another and from country to country. That’s decided at the regional level by the Regional Minister and his council. Little things like that.

One is accepted into the SFO when one is accepted to candidacy (novitiate). We follow the same norms as any religious order. A candidate or novice is a full member of the Order, but without profession. They enjoy all of the spiritual benefits of all members. They do not have a voice in the Order until they make perpetual profession, just like any other order. But they are real Franciscans.

Candidacy can begin as early as six months after you are welcomed, but usually later.

Also, the Franciscan Friars and Franciscan Sisters and Poor Clare nuns are not connected to the Secular Franciscan Order. Each Franciscan Order is autonomous with its own Rule, Constitution, government, mission and ministry. Only the three branches of the Friars Minor are bound to each other, because they are the same Order. They must coordinate certain things among them.

The four orders are:

Friars Minor [Observant (OFM), Capuchin (OFM Cap) and Conventual (OFM Conv)]

Poor Clares (PC and PCPA) each Poor Clare abbey is autonomous]

Secular Franciscan Brothers and Sisters of Penance (SFO)

Regular Franciscan Brothers and Sisters of Penance (TOR and OSF)

Someone already provided the national link to the SFO above. There is also the Generalate in Rome, if you plan on moving outside the USA. They can provide information about the Order abroad.

By the way, the Secular Franciscans do not use the term “lay” because the Friars and the Poor Clares are also lay orders. Within the Franciscan family a lay order is one where lay men and women can hold office, sometimes over clerics and vis a vis. In our parish the Superior is a lay man and the pastor and associates are clerics and lay friars. Your superior can be a priest one term of office and a lay man or woman another term. What distinguishes the SFO from the other Franciscan orders is our life in the secular world.

You may want to check out the Lay Dominicans and Benedictine Oblates too. Both are very charismatic ways of life.

Someone mentioned that John Paul II was a SFO. He was an OP (Lay Dominican). John XXIII was an SFO.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
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JReducation:
Someone mentioned that John Paul II was a SFO. He was an OP (Lay Dominican). John XXIII was an SFO.
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This was corrected by AveSaintMaria a few posts ago. Pope John Paul II was well-known for being a Secular Carmelite, and it was mentioned frequently by the media after his death. Carmelites have always felt a special bond with this pope because of his profession in their Order. He was not a Lay Dominican. Here is one reference from an OCDS that substantiates this, but if you need further sources, Google may be helpful.
amazon.com/Pope-John-Paul-Albert-Finney/dp/6303369030/ref=cm_cr_dp_orig_subj
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One can not help but feel the emotions that Karol felt as his character is formed by the experiences of his life, from the loss of his mother at an early age and his father as a young man, the ocupation by the Germans, the plight of the Jewish families that led him to risk his life for them. Also his meeting with a mentor who intoduces him to St. John of the Cross, he became a Secular Carmelite as a result and the Carmelite St. John of the Cross was to influence his life right up to the present day.
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Joysong said:
This was corrected by AveSaintMaria a few posts ago. Pope John Paul II was well-known for being a Secular Carmelite, and it was mentioned frequently by the media after his death. Carmelites have always felt a special bond with this pope because of his profession in their Order. He was not a Lay Dominican. Here is one reference from an OCDS that substantiates this, but if you need further sources, Google may be helpful.
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Thanks for that Joy. I knew he was not Franciscan. I don’t know why I thought Dominican.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, have mercy on us!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Dear JREducation, JoySong, and FCGEM!! Thank you for clearing things up 👍 I hope that I can take your advice to heart 🙂 😃

1 Corinthians 13:1-13
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish things behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

St. Padre Pio: “Love our Lady, make others love her. Always say your Rosary and say it well. Satan always tries to destroy this prayer, but he will never succeed. It is the prayer of her who triumphs over everything and everyone.”

Sister Lucy of Fatima. “She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem; no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary.”

Free information on devoting oneself to the Sacred Heart of
Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Online Adoration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament
louisville-catholic.net/WebCameras/AdorationChapel/tabid/825/Default.aspx
True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
montfort.org.uk/Writings/TrueDev.html
**Secret of the Rosary ** montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html
Preparation for 33 day consecration to the Blessed Virgin
saintlouisdemontfort.com/consecration.cfm
Reflections on True Devotion to Mary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II http://www.michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm
**The Glories of Mary, ** by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains Hail Holy Queen http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories.htm
On the Dolors of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains the sufferings of Our Lady http://writer.zoho.com/public/immaculate/Seven-dolors
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus en.wikisource.org/wiki/Devotion_to_the_Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus#FIRST_POINT._.E2.80.94_The_ardent_desire_Jesus_Christ_feels_to_be_with_us.
Divine Mercy Chaplet ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm
Rosary Confraternity Enrollment rosary-center.org/nconform.htm (As Pope Leo XIII said in his encyclical on the Confraternity, “Whenever a person fulfills his obligation of reciting the Rosary according to the rule of the Confraternity, he includes in his intentions all its members and they render him the same service many times over.”

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, have mercy on us!

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
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