"Lay parish pastoral associates"

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THurifer2 said:
as a person who is taking the lay ministry formation program for my diocese I will assure you it IS an agenda driven program and its existence is indeed to get the camels nose intothe tent. I sit in a group of women ( I myself am a man) and endure hours and hours of dissent spewing forth from this program.Constant griping Our leader even expressed distaste when I mentioned a dioceses in a nearby state had 20 first year seminarians…the group leader said such a vocation ssurge is “unhealthy”. I am getting the impression that there is a sub culture of people in my diocese who are busy with their agendas and they are all on the same page. AND there is definately a gatekeeper situation going on. As a diaconate candidate…I find it unnerving that I am being watched very closely by the facilitator of my group and the program director…who by the way has the power to kick me out of the program…which is required for the diaconate.
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Then the short order is keep your mouth shut, meaning do not volunteer information, and do not ask pointed questions.

Also keep in mind that the Church has been around 2000 years and has suffered other issues; it survived them and it will survive this. 40 years amounts to about 2% of the time the Church has been here on earth. It seems like a lot to us, as our lifetime my be twice that; but in the scale of things it is quite short.

Much, if not most of the dissent currently on the “loose” is confined to those over 40, and by and large, those over 50 or 55. Look at pictures of some of the people in the more radical so-called “Catholic” protest groups; they are all grey, many are in their 70’s; the groups are relatively small, and there are almost no younger middle age or young people in them. In fact, of the pictures I have seen, there simply are none. They will simply die off, as the generation younger, and the second generation younger simply have different issues. They are in no way going to overcome the Church. It may take 10 or 20 years to flush out most of them, but they will not be in positions of power for much more of the future. They have been at it longer than you have, and the likelyhood of you convincing any one of them to change is in the negative numbers. Spend your energy wisely and where it will do some good, which is one on one with people who are receptive to the Gospel. Keep your own counsel and your own opinions when you run into these folks, and the best response is one that is so bland that it simply has no opinion. Geting caught in “defending the faith” is going to be more of an issue of ego than anything else, and this is an exceelent place to have no ego. For all the high talk of others that you have to “defend the faith” and you ahve to correct these folks, it would be well to keep in mind that those making such charges have nothing to lose. You do. Trying to win a battle that you can’t win, and losing the war doesn’t make a lot of sense.
 
otjm said:
Then the short order is keep your mouth shut, meaning do not volunteer information, and do not ask pointed questions.

Also keep in mind that the Church has been around 2000 years and has suffered other issues; it survived them and it will survive this. 40 years amounts to about 2% of the time the Church has been here on earth. It seems like a lot to us, as our lifetime my be twice that; but in the scale of things it is quite short.

Much, if not most of the dissent currently on the “loose” is confined to those over 40, and by and large, those over 50 or 55. Look at pictures of some of the people in the more radical so-called “Catholic” protest groups; they are all grey, many are in their 70’s; the groups are relatively small, and there are almost no younger middle age or young people in them. In fact, of the pictures I have seen, there simply are none. They will simply die off, as the generation younger, and the second generation younger simply have different issues. They are in no way going to overcome the Church. It may take 10 or 20 years to flush out most of them, but they will not be in positions of power for much more of the future. They have been at it longer than you have, and the likelyhood of you convincing any one of them to change is in the negative numbers. Spend your energy wisely and where it will do some good, which is one on one with people who are receptive to the Gospel. Keep your own counsel and your own opinions when you run into these folks, and the best response is one that is so bland that it simply has no opinion. Geting caught in “defending the faith” is going to be more of an issue of ego than anything else, and this is an exceelent place to have no ego. For all the high talk of others that you have to “defend the faith” and you ahve to correct these folks, it would be well to keep in mind that those making such charges have nothing to lose. You do. Trying to win a battle that you can’t win, and losing the war doesn’t make a lot of sense.
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This was the best piece of advice I have ever had on this message board…Thank you and I will take it to heart…Please please pray for me… a deacon friend of mine told me to be innocent as a lamb yet sly as a serpent…

Thanks again.👍
 
THurifer2 said:
This was the best piece of advice I have ever had on this message board…Thank you and I will take it to heart…Please please pray for me… a deacon friend of mine told me to be innocent as a lamb yet sly as a serpent…

Thanks again.👍
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You are welcome. Our deacon to be is being ordained this Saturday, pleae keep him in your prayers too.

Being as innocent as a lamb in theior eyes may require being as sly as a serpent.

And remember that being a deacon is being in service to the Church, and preaching the Good News. And as St Francis is alleged to have said, if necessary, use words. God bless on your journey, and keep your head down. The Church has plenty of martyrs already…
 
otjm said:
And remember that being a deacon is being in service to the Church, and preaching the Good News. …
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If I have to scrub the floor of the dirty bathroom at the Cathedral for the people…I will do it without gloating about it.

I just want to serve and serve without being noticed.
 
Maybe something good will come out of it. Maybe a lay pastoral associate will replace Cardinal Mahony. 👍
 
Joannm said:
What then do you suggest to call a lay person who works full time in a parish, who takes on many of the ministerial roles that do not require an ordained person? People who work in any job in any sector have some sort of title that describes what they do.
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Branch Manager.
 
Pastoral Assistant is easy to confuse with Assistant Pastor. It shouldn’t be.

If interim, emergency measures (such as lay parish administrators, lay EMHC’s, lay blessing of the throats, lay communion services, etc…) become deeply ingrained in the spirituality of the parishioners, it becomes very difficult to remind them that they should be hoping for more priests to come and relieve them of this temporary duty. How convenient! No encouragement of priestly vocations means more lay “participation”.

And people wonder why there’s a vocations crisis. It’s because a priest has no identity anymore.

(McLucas)Emasculation of the Priesthood
 
Joannm said:
That being said…no, I am not on the altar during mass unless I am serving as an EM…no, I am not a priest wannabe nor do I subscribe to women’s ordination…I get along splendidly with any priests I work with and I have the greatest respect for our priests. My spiritual director is a conservative moral theologian, I am quite orthodox in my theology…and most of the people in the parish have no idea of who I am or what I do as I do not flaunt it or do it for attention. I prefer it that way. The only reason I am saying all this now is because of the negative remarks about those who hold a position like mine in their parishes and because it was asked what a PA does in the parish.
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I came here to find out the duties of a Pastoral Associate and was shocked to find out that some lay people take it too far. Thank you Joannm for helping everyone understand the role better.
I guess we are so wrapped up in our own parishes that we don’t take into consideration other situations.
Some parishes only have one priest (like ours)
Some share their one priest with 2 sometimes 3 other area churches. (we do not but the neighboring church is now a tri-parish)
Some have no Deacon (and our Deacon does work full time, runs a farm, a shrine and lives 40 minutes away)
Some priests need the help of an assistant (ours does most of what you do minus the DRE, we have a nun to help us, she is one of 3 in our county)
We need to pray for those who try to do things ‘their’ way instead of how the Church say it is to be done (my case, Rome)
 
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