Lay people are talking during mass

[Here-I-am-Lord]

Just one more thing, dear curious_cath. You say

Our celebrations of the Eucharist qualify for exceptional circumstance. It is exceptional, because we are the Neocatechumenals.

You do sound presumptuous! Each faith group in my church is kinda special for its own members. But it does not mean any of them would be exceptional! Your church group may surely benefit from some exercise in Christian humbleness.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Here-I-am-Lord, why are you so concerned with beating up on curious_cath’s faith group?

It’s clear from this thread you aren’t a member of the group. You had a question about a practice.

A member of the group, to whom the group is important, tried to explain it to you.

You didn’t like the explanation and now you’re telling her she’s “presumptuous” for saying her group - which clearly is known to several Popes and apparently has permission to celebrate the Mass in the manner they do - is an exception to the rule.

It’s pretty clear that you’ve just decided you don’t like this group or how they celebrate Mass, even though it seems like I said you don’t have a personal knowledge of them. You just read something and decided to beat up on the group and now you’re beating up on a member of the group.

Why?

If this group is in your parish, you can go to a Mass and if you don’t like what goes on there you can complain to your pastor and/or to the bishop, with the possible outcome that both of them will tell you that what the group is doing is okay and pretty much ignore you. You could also choose to just avoid the group’s Masses and go to ones where lay people don’t “talk during Mass.”

If this group is not in your parish, this isn’t really your issue.

While I myself am not a fan of groups like the Way and would not want to go to a Mass where people are talking about their personal business because I don’t want to hear that stuff nor share my own, it’s not bothering me that they do it. It’s their business, their issue and the bishop’s concern as to how they do their Masses, especially since my parishes don’t have a Way group to my knowledge. Live and let live.

 

[Here-I-am-Lord]

A member of the group, to whom the group is important, tried to explain it to you.

I appreciated it. The same time, I tried to apply critical thinkig in understanding the phenomenon. Now I understand it much better.

If this group is not in your parish, this isn’t really your issue.

I have never said it was my issue. However, I was greatly puzzled and I am still. They say it is happening at a kind of mass that is open to everybody. We also heard that nevertheless there are no outsiders there. Is this not puzzling for you? If I would have an NCW group in my parish or someplace nearby, I would surely pay a visit.

It’s their business, their issue and the bishop’s concern as to how they do their Masses.

You are right. But this does not mean my puzzlement is moot. I am also a curious person, just like curious_cath certainly is. There could be many practices at localities we are not familiar with that would be puzzling to see. Even in the Catholic Church there is a healthy diversity and the Sunday Mass became a pluralistic form of worship. When I travel, I never miss to sit into a mass to experience how is it the same and how is it different from what I know.

 

[Nicky777]

That’s one of the reasons I go to Latin Mass.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Okay, that’s all reasonable.

I just think it’s important when someone who has an emotional connection with one of these groups - usually because it has greatly helped them in their spirituality - tries to help others understand it better, it’s important to kind of meet them where they are and not be seemingly looking for “holes in their story”. curious_cath has posted many times about the Neocat Way and it’s clear this is a big part of her spiritual life and she finds it very helpful, also that the Church more or less approves of Neocat Way for a long time now, so it’s not a case of a schismatic group or anything. Applying a critical thinking response to her comments can come off as disrespectful or as putting the Way person on the defensive.

 

[Here-I-am-Lord]

Applying a critical thinking response to her comments can come off as disrespectful or as putting the Way person on the defensive.

Of course, I would not want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Based on her reponses, curious_cath is not a person who would not stand up for herself. I actually respect this a lot! By the way, a little critical thinking should not hurt at any time. This is my two cents worth of opinion.

 

[curious_cath]

a little critical thinking should not hurt at any time

Don’t worry big man, there are no hard feelings.

 

[Here-I-am-Lord]

Well, this topic does not look exhausted yet. In the last few days I have found out more about some practices of the Neocatechumenal Way. While it is a Catholic group with a history of 50 years or so already, many things they do remain hidden or outright secret for the general public and for many of its own members.

What I was told is that this movement is a gradual, step-by-step, stage-by-stage introduction to a deep involvement of spiritual dependency on a Neocatechumenal hierarchy, that consists of masters of different degrees or higher and higher authority. On the top of command, there is an “International Cetchechist”, purportedly the charismatic leader named Kiko. I don’t know if this description is accurate or not, but it reveals a stict chain of command as the modus vivendi for aggressive evangelization or re-evangelization. Successfully evangelized people, mostly Catholics already, will become part of the Neocatechumenal movement for life.

 

[Here-I-am-Lord]

A friend, who witnessed inserted Neocatechumenal testimonies during mass, contacted me to tell about it. He has seen a lot, but I was interested in the ‘resonances’ only.

First of all, a neo mass is a parish mass open to all Catholics, as other masses, usually held on Saturday evenings. In some places it is held in the church, in front of a consecrated altar, at other places it is held in social halls or in Bible study rooms. My friend wanted to see this mass, so he attended.

Second of all, resonances are called echos in the NCW. After the Sunday Gospel reading, the priest, whom they call presbyter, sits down and asks the congregation to express their reflection. In about 30-40 minutes, members of the NCW group take turns with a microphone to give their reflection or echo on the Sunday Mass readings to the whole congregation.

My friend was surprized by the uninhibited monologues produced, each about 5-10 minutes long. While a superficial reference is always given to the Gospel, the monologues very soon wind down to one’s personal situation, family matters, etc. My friend said he wanted to leave immediately, but then he became interested in how far this would go. People around him looked uninterested or bored, making the impression that they have already heard these things a few times before. Overall, any direction of the monologues is impossible to decipher and when a speaker abruptly stops his testimony, it feels like (s)he did not want to make any point whatsoever.

Shortly, my friend labeled this period of lay people’s talks inserted into the Sunday Mass a strange session of Freudian-style, almost incomprehensible monologues not even resembling to Christian reflections on Bible readings.

After 30-40 minutes, the priest would take over the microphone and start his own homily. Afterward, the mass continues in the usual manner. Prayers are said both communally and individually. The Eucharist is given on the palm and consumed under both species.

 

[curious_cath]

If you ask me, your friend experienced Neocatehcumenal Way 101, an introductory course, a very basic level contact with a community. This is how NCW works in more than 100 countries around the globe.

any direction of the monologues is impossible to decipher and when a speaker abruptly stops his testimony, it feels like (s)he did not want to make any point whatsoever.

The Holy Spirit has its own manners and purposes.

a strange session of Freudian-style, almost incomprehensible monologues

Bringing Freud into this picture is an extremely low bow! Freud claimed that psychoanalysis brings up the memories of past events, like trauma, from the unconscious to the conscious level, where these memories annihilate themselves. This is not true. The right path to take is to bring your past hurts and pains to your brothers and talk about it to Jesus! It is Jesus and only Him who will listen and forgive! That bings peace. Freud did not understand anything.