Lay people making the Sign of the Cross as a blessing

[CutlerB]

The other day a question crossed my mind.

Say, hypothetically, one witnessed a car accident and the victim was dying. Assuming he is unbaptised, I gather lay people can validly baptise if they use the correct matter and form. Say if the victim is a baptised Christian, could the lay witness give him a blessing, not pretending to be a priest, but similar to parents blessing their children? If so, can lay people make the Sign of the Cross over someone as a valid form of blessing?

Thought it might be interesting to know.

 

[GPGT]

Yes… it’s my understanding that anyone (doesn’t even have to be a Christian) can baptize another person if their intentions are right and the situation called for it. They would use water and say “I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” I suppose they would do the sign of the cross if they knew to.

 

[CutlerB]

Exactly like a priest does, though? It would be cool if one could, but I’d also understand if it weren’t proper, since it is quite a priestly thing to do. Whether it falls under the general priesthood of Christians, though, that is the question.

 

[GPGT]

In order for the baptism to be valid it has to be done “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” and generally the sign of the cross goes with that.

 

[thistle]

The other day a question crossed my mind.

Say, hypothetically, one witnessed a car accident and the victim was dying. **Assuming he is unbaptised, I gather lay people can validly baptise if they use the correct matter and form. **Say if the victim is a baptised Christian, could the lay witness give him a blessing, not pretending to be a priest, but similar to parents blessing their children? If so, can lay people make the Sign of the Cross over someone as a valid form of blessing?

Thought it might be interesting to know.

That is not correct. You cannot just baptise whoever you want. In your example such an injured person would have to indicate they want to be baptised and know something about the faith.

Canon Law.

§2 An adult in danger of death may be baptised if, with some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, he or she has in some manner manifested the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the requirements of the christian religion.

 

[CutlerB]

That is not correct. You cannot just baptise whoever you want. In your example such an injured person would have to indicate they want to be baptised and know something about the faith.

Canon Law.

§2 An adult in danger of death may be baptised if, with some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, he or she has in some manner manifested the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the requirements of the christian religion.

I assumed that was the case, that’s why I didn’t write it.

 

[St_Francis]

WRT blessing, a true blessing can only be given to someone by a person who has some type of authority over the one blessed: a priest can bless people; parents can bless their children, etc. However, a parishioner cannot bless his pastor, not children their parents.

However, one can *pray *for a blessing for someone else. When we say “God bless you,” we are really saying “May God bless you.” So if we become aware of someone in trouble, we can pray for them–often Catholic pray a Hail Mary, asking for Mary’s intercession for this person.

At the scene of an accident, when one hears sirens, when one learns of an accident by passing it or hearing about it on the radio, anytime we hear about something bad happening to someone, it is appropriate to say a prayer for that person. Or even if one just sees a parent having trouble with children or a misbehaving teenager… prayer it always apprpriate!

As to baptism, one must pour just a little bit of water over the person’s head three times *while *saying " I baptize thee in the Name of the Father (pour), the Son (pour), and the Holy Spirit (pour)."

However the Church asks that this be done only if the person has indicated an interest in being baptized, or if the person is very young. And *very much *in danger of death–baptizing someone who will not follow through or have instruction is spiritually very dangerous for the soul, and in the case of an adult, a violation of free will.

 

[Lasting_faith]

I don’t want to spoil your fun but why in heavens name would anyone dying in let us say a RTA want to be Christened? (But what do I know?)

I actually once did a maybe stupid and far from right thing and most likely against every Canon act there is. About a year ago a man did fall/jump from his balcony and died. I did not see when he did fall but I did see the ambulance and police car and a white sheet covering his body and for some reason I did ask God forgive him his sins and then I made the sign of the Cross in “priest-manner” toward the dead man. It was most likely improper and stupid but I did it for a reason I can’t explain because I don’t know what made me do it.

Do you think he got hos sin forgiven, BTW?

 

[doormouse73]

i do that acy every time i see a funeral or a funeral car passing by me,i also pray for the family and friends of the deceased to find comfort in our lord Jesus Christ…

on the baptising question… ive been told of my priest that you can baptise a dying person if there is no priest around… so it is a valid baptism… i baptise you with the sign of the cross, in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy spirit…

 

[CutlerB]

I don’t want to spoil your fun but why in heavens name would anyone dying in let us say a RTA want to be Christened? (But what do I know?)

I actually once did a maybe stupid and far from right thing and most likely against every Canon act there is. About a year ago a man did fall/jump from his balcony and died. I did not see when he did fall but I did see the ambulance and police car and a white sheet covering his body and for some reason I did ask God forgive him his sins and then I made the sign of the Cross in “priest-manner” toward the dead man. It was most likely improper and stupid but I did it for a reason I can’t explain because I don’t know what made me do it.

Do you think he got hos sin forgiven, BTW?

Why would the want to be christened? Well, perhaps to have their sins forgiven?

About your example, I don’t think that is for us to judge. It wouldn’t have been wrong for you to pray for him though.

 

[thistle]

i do that acy every time i see a funeral or a funeral car passing by me,i also pray for the family and friends of the deceased to find comfort in our lord Jesus Christ…

on the baptising question… ive been told of my priest that you can baptise a dying person if there is no priest around… so it is a valid baptism… i baptise you with the sign of the cross, in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy spirit…

That is not true. See my post #5. A lay person can only baptise if the injured/dying person wants to be baptised, has some knowledge of the faith, and if surviving he intends to continue in the faith.

 

[Stillsosola]

I was told at RCIA lay people can baptize only in emergency like near death cases with the persons permission or if a baby is born and is in danger of not making it Im not sure about the sign of the cross being an actual blessing Im having counsel with my bishop wednesday Ill throw it in as a question.

 

[KrazyKat]

I don’t want to spoil your fun but why in heavens name would anyone dying in let us say a RTA want to be Christened? (But what do I know?)

I actually once did a maybe stupid and far from right thing and most likely against every Canon act there is. About a year ago a man did fall/jump from his balcony and died. I did not see when he did fall but I did see the ambulance and police car and a white sheet covering his body and for some reason I did ask God forgive him his sins and then I made the sign of the Cross in “priest-manner” toward the dead man. It was most likely improper and stupid but I did it for a reason I can’t explain because I don’t know what made me do it.

Do you think he got hos sin forgiven, BTW?

The Spirit moved within you and you listened. Thanks be to God. We should pray for each other always. As for his sins that is between him and God.

 

[PJM]

=CutlerB;11408416]The other day a question crossed my mind.

Say, hypothetically, one witnessed a car accident and the victim was dying. Assuming he is unbaptised, I gather lay people can validly baptise if they use the correct matter and form. Say if the victim is a baptised Christian, could the lay witness give him a blessing, not pretending to be a priest, but similar to parents blessing their children? If so, can lay people make the Sign of the Cross over someone as a valid form of blessing?

Thought it might be interesting to know.

In the example you give; this would be OK, but perhaps NOT the best option. It would be better IF IT COULD PRUDENTLY be done to ASSIST the person in a prayer and a self -blessing of the Cross.

It would be BETTER to JUST pray for the person and to determine [if possible] IF they ARE a Christian. There is a small and minor risk here of scandal.

Blessings by parents ARE highly recommended:thumbsup:

God’s Continued Blessing and HURRY HOME, we miss you!

Patrick

 

[CutlerB]

In the example you give; this would be OK, but perhaps NOT the best option. It would be better IF IT COULD PRUDENTLY be done to ASSIST the person in a prayer and a self -blessing of the Cross.

It would be BETTER to JUST pray for the person and to determine [if possible] IF they ARE a Christian. There is a small and minor risk here of scandal.

Blessings by parents ARE highly recommended:thumbsup:

God’s Continued Blessing and HURRY HOME, we miss you!

Patrick

One week of travel time remaining, then I’m home There is one rather daunting obstacle on the road, it’s called Confession, but I’ll manage it somehow.

 

[57Bill]

WRT blessing, a true blessing can only be given to someone by a person who has some type of authority over the one blessed: a priest can bless people; parents can bless their children, etc. However, a parishioner cannot bless his pastor, not children their parents.

However, one can *pray *for a blessing for someone else. When we say “God bless you,” we are really saying “May God bless you.” So if we become aware of someone in trouble, we can pray for them–often Catholic pray a Hail Mary, asking for Mary’s intercession for this person.

Thanks
I learn something good every day here and not just “proper” but correct. To help me…the acronym WRT stands for?

-I was Goggle-racing to see verbatim what Pope Francis said to the crowd on the evening of his election… I thought he had asked for a blessing from the crowd. However his words were.

“I ask that you would pray to the Lord to bless me – the prayer of the people for their Bishop. Let us say this prayer – your prayer for me – in silence.”

news.va/en/news/pope-francis-his-first-words

 

[PJM]

=CutlerB;11409142]One week of travel time remaining, then I’m home There is one rather daunting obstacle on the road, it’s called Confession, but I’ll manage it somehow.

SO DEAR FRIEND, HERE’S SOME GOOD NEWS

I taught RCIA for 3 years, and One’s First Confession is often the easiest because it covers sooooo-much time and ground. The priest looks for SINCERE repentace more than ANYTHING else. Say a prayer to the HS and Mary to assist you; and you’ll do fine:thumbsup:

God Bless you and WELCOME Home!

 

[Brandall]

I’m in RCIA now and next Sunday, we will have the Rite of Acceptance. For the Baptized, the sponsor will make the sign of the cross over our ears, eyes, lips, hearts, shoulders, hands and feet. From what I could tell, it was the same or a similar motion to what the priest does.

I don’t think the making of the sign of the cross infers a blessing.

Sacraments were also the subject of class today. Of the seven sacraments, two do not require that someone with holy orders perform them. Baptism and marriage. Baptism, as most of you have described and marriage, because the husband and wife perform the marriage on each other with the priest or deacon as a witness.

 

[thistle]

One week of travel time remaining, then I’m home There is one rather daunting obstacle on the road, it’s called Confession, but I’ll manage it somehow.

Don’t worry about that. The priest will help you and there is nothing you can say to him that he hasn’t heard before.
I was a baptised Methodist and converted at the age of 44. That’s a lot of sins to remember I thought but its not as daunting as you might think.
Happy to see you coming home.

By the way, I know Hamburg. My family and I lived there for 3 years - in Winterhude, not far from the Alster.

 

[St_Francis]

Thanks
I learn something good every day here and not just “proper” but correct. To help me…the acronym WRT stands for?

With Regard To

-I was Goggle-racing to see verbatim what Pope Francis said to the crowd on the evening of his election… I thought he had asked for a blessing from the crowd. However his words were.

“I ask that you would pray to the Lord to bless me – the prayer of the people for their Bishop. Let us say this prayer – your prayer for me – in silence.”

news.va/en/news/pope-francis-his-first-words

I’m so glad you wrote that–i’d just read an inaccurate description of what he’d said.