Lay people reading Scripture in Mass

[PietroPaolo]

People are called by God to serve according to the gifts they are given. **People serve in various functions when they feel that the Holy Spirit is calling them to serve.
**

-Tim-

No, people are called to serve in those ministries the Church institutes for them to serve in, otherwise what do you make of women priests? They certainly would claim that they feel called by the Holy Spirit to serve in according to the gifts God has given them. Setting the Church against the Spirit is a false dichotomy. Again, I refer you to the quotes above from our current Holy Father and (emphasis added):

"The layperson is a layperson and has to live as a layperson with the power of baptism, which enables him to be a leaven of the love of God in society itself, to create and sow hope, to proclaim the faith, not from a pulpit but from his everyday life. And, like all of us, the layperson is called to carry his daily cross — the cross of the layperson, not of the priest."

But perhaps Francis misunderstands the “mind of the Church.”

 

[Sirach2]

I am really imaging the ad hominem character of this post?

Your quote from Paul VI doesn’t help your cause very much, I’m afraid.

"The conferring of these functions often took place by a special rite, in which, after God’s blessing had been implored, a Christian was established in a special class or rank for the fulfillment of some ecclesiastical function."

This is an argument for instituted lectors NOT lay lectors.

Check out Pope Paul’s M.P. which restored the ancient role without the need for a ceremony of institution, since he abolished it.

As for my comment about your negativity and criticism, do you fail to see that you have been negative on the role of Lectors throughout this thread? I do not believe I have misunderstood your nonsupport of them. This is NOT ad hominem, much as you try to impute it.

When Pope Francis issues a M.P. to counter Pope Paul VI’s, or to counter the USCCB and the GIRM, then maybe you would have a valid point. As of now, it is his opinion only, and it doesn’t lay aside the work of his predecessors, the Bishops, or the GIRM.

Enough said. Unsubscribing.

 

[ProVobis]

They certainly would claim that they feel called by the Holy Spirit to serve in according to the gifts God has given them.

The truth is that not every can read, much less, read well, in front of a congregation. Nor altar serve, for that matter. I remember one nun who kept telling us back in the 50’s that altar servers get no extra credit for serving, even weekday Masses when they otherwise would not have attended. Why should it be any different for readers?

 

[PietroPaolo]

Check out Pope Paul’s M.P. which restored the ancient role without the need for a ceremony of institution, since he abolished it.

As for my comment about your negativity and criticism, do you fail to see that you have been negative on the role of Lectors throughout this thread? I do not believe I have misunderstood your nonsupport of them. This is NOT ad hominem, much as you try to impute it.

When Pope Francis issues a M.P. to counter Pope Paul VI’s, or to counter the USCCB and the GIRM, then maybe you would have a valid point. As of now, it is his opinion only, and it doesn’t lay aside the work of his predecessors, the Bishops, or the GIRM.

Enough said. Unsubscribing.

It’s hardly negativity to suggest our worship of God in the Mass (the source and summit of our lives) could be improved by limiting the role of the laity in the sanctuary during the Mass. You seem awfully quick to dismiss this idea, even when our current Holy Father (and over 19 centuries of Church tradition) suggest it. But I suppose you took your ball and went home after making sure you had the last word. Ah well. God Bless

 

[YoungTradCath]

Check out Pope Paul’s M.P. which restored the ancient role without the need for a ceremony of institution, since he abolished it.

No he didn’t.

We have instituted Lectors who are the official functionaries for reading Scripture. All priests and deacons are Lectors, as they receive this ministry on their way to ordination, but any layman may receive it after training, presuming the diocese does it. (Most don’t, for whatever reason…) This is a universal ministry that can be performed anywhere. Lectors have “first dibs” on reading at Mass wherever they go, just like a deacon can fulfill his rightful role at Mass wherever he is. Lector and Acolyte are conferred in specific liturgical ceremonies.

We also have “readers” who have no universal privilege or right to read, but were and are envisaged as an ad-hoc replacement when there aren’t any Lectors. We’ve just been in this odd rut, for whatever reason, of not using the fruits of Ministeria quaedam and related documents for going on fifty years. It’s clear that Paul intended that Instituted Lectors and Acolytes be a commonplace, everyday fixture in the Latin Church–otherwise, why would he have extended these ministries to all laymen, not just those in seminary?

When it comes down to it, Lectors and Acolytes de facto do not exist. We replace them on a technically ad-hoc basis with fill-ins.

 

[PJM]

=Sirach2;10747792]That is true, but only if a lector is not available to do the first two readings and psalm, as per GIRM guidelines.

1. By tradition, the function of proclaiming the readings is ministerial, not presidential. The readings, therefore, should be proclaimed by a lector, and the Gospel by a deacon or, in his absence, a priest other than the celebrant. If, however, a deacon or another priest is not present, the priest celebrant himself should read the Gospel. **Further, if another suitable lector is also not present, then the priest celebrant should also proclaim the other readings.

**

THANKS,

I read the GRIM multiple times and missed that:blush:

 

[pnewton]

Yes, but “dishing out liturgy duties” probably clericalizes laity more than anything else.

I guess this could happen, but I frankly don’t see it. I know a lot of Catholic and they all seem to have no problem with the distinction regardless of how many ministries they are involved in. I bet you could have a survey here and with thousands of members not find one who does not understand this difference.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I guess this could happen, but I frankly don’t see it. I know a lot of Catholic and they all seem to have no problem with the distinction regardless of how many ministries they are involved in. I bet you could have a survey here and with thousands of members not find one who does not understand this difference.

I think “clericalizing the laity” has less to do with the laity not understanding the difference and more with the laity performing various functions at Mass (which is a role better suited to the clergy) instead of transforming the world (e.g. the jobs they work at, the families they live in, the governments they vote for, etc.) which is the real role of the laity (and one the clergy is less able to perform). In this way it is similar to condemnations of “clericalism” which has nothing to do with blurring the understanding of the difference between those in orders and the laity.

 

[pnewton]

I think “clericalizing the laity” has less to do with the laity not understanding the difference and more with the laity performing various functions at Mass (which is a role better suited to the clergy) instead of transforming the world (e.g. the jobs they work at, the families they live in, the governments they vote for, etc.) which is the real role of the laity (and one the clergy is less able to perform).

Wouldn’t you say that ministry at Mass and ministry in the world outside a Mass is really the epitome of a false dichotomy? By definition, they cannot occur at the same time. There have always been things to do at Mass that lay people have done. Reading is not the role of the presider. It would seem that the GIRM makes a lay reader preferable to the priest if he is presiding. So in this case, for a priest to read, it would be a blur of the lines the other way, or a laicizing of the priestly role instead of clericizing the laity.

Personally, I only need to read once a year and that is at Holy Saturday. For practical purposes, we have the psalmist read the reading associated with the psalm they sing.