Lay person in cassock and surplice

[corsair]

At our EF parish all the servers wear cassock/surplice. Just a few miles to the south there is a very pretty parish that does mostly the Ordinary Form. Here is a picture of last Sunday’s Corpus Christi Procession.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

at our ef parish all the servers wear cassock/surplice. Just a few miles to the south there is a very pretty parish that does mostly the ordinary form. Here is a picture of last sunday’s corpus christi procession.

lucky!

 

[Chatter163]

lucky!

Not lucky, but blessed.

 

[Brendan]

No, it’s not. It’s not related specifically to either gender, except possibly in brief times in limited circumstances. Floor-length gowns were worn by both sexes at different times, sometimes with buttons and only more recently with inset sleeves.

Then again, a nun’s habit is a ‘floor lenght gown’ too, but that doesn’t mean that men should be wearing them.

The cassock is a particular garment. It is a hallmark of the clerical state. As such, is really should be reserved to men, as the clerical state itself is reserved to men.

 

[twf]

Priests wearing the cassock is the historical norm and is practiced all over the world. I, personally, like that the younger priests are returning to them.

I think that woman in cassock looks quite odd, but not as odd as the woman in mitre, and earrings.

Historically, some select abbesses were granted a mitre. As far as I know the practice was very rare - but it happened.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

You use what is the norm in your parish, if they use albs then you use an alb. Altar servers are allowed to use cassock and surplice, usually the use of those vestments is limited by cost. Usually a server uses the vestments provided by the parish unless they do not have the proper size, if that happens then it is prudent for the server to discuss the purchase of vestments with the pastor.

Getting back to the OP’s question…Cristiano is correct, you wear what the parish gives you to wear. Whether or not women should be wearing cassocks, is it rude and presumptuous for any lay volunteer to start dictating what he or she will be wearing when serving at the altar.

Please ask what the priest would prefer before you go out to buy special garments that can’t be used for anything else.

 

[Alfonsus]

There is nothing more or less proper about wearing an amice. Wearing a cincture by the laity is a little problematic (although widely done) because of what is associated (chastity) with wearing it.

If alb is used, cincture is assumed:

GIRM 119 (emphasis mine). In the sacristy, the sacred vestments (cf. nos. 337-341) for the priest, the deacon, and other ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration:

For the priest: the alb, the stole, and the chasuble;

For the deacon: the alb, the stole, and the dalmatic; the dalmatic may be omitted, however, either out of necessity or on account of a lesser degree of solemnity;

For the other ministers: albs or other lawfully approved attire.[96]

All who wear an alb should use a cincture and an amice unless, due to the form of the alb, they are not needed.

 

[englishredrose]

Hi guys.
So I’m thinking about getting back into serving at the Mass. My Parish uses white albs. I prefer the cassock and surplice, and another parish near uses these for lay altar servers. Anyway, I read that only those in orders may wear the c&s. Could I still potentially serve Mass at the second parish, wearing the c&s, without violating a liturgical rule or canon?

you dress how the team dresses otherwise you discuss it with the priest in charge

 

[Exorcist]

*Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist
There is nothing more or less proper about wearing an amice. Wearing a cincture by the laity is a little problematic (although widely done) because of what is associated (chastity) with wearing it.
If alb is used, cincture is assumed:
Quote:
GIRM 119 (emphasis mine). In the sacristy, the sacred vestments (cf. nos. 337-341) for the priest, the deacon, and other ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration:

For the priest: the alb, the stole, and the chasuble;

For the deacon: the alb, the stole, and the dalmatic; the dalmatic may be omitted, however, either out of necessity or on account of a lesser degree of solemnity;

For the other ministers: albs or other lawfully approved attire.[96]

All who wear an alb should use a cincture and an amice unless, due to the form of the alb, they are not needed.
*​

Absolutely not. While cinctures are routinely worn by the laity, the have a strong symbolism that is not supported by that common use.

 

[Exorcist]

Then again, a nun’s habit is a ‘floor lenght gown’ too, but that doesn’t mean that men should be wearing them.

The cassock is a particular garment. It is a hallmark of the clerical state. As such, is really should be reserved to men, as the clerical state itself is reserved to men.

No it is not. Nor is the Roman collar. That distinction in rests primarily with the stole.

 

[Exorcist]

I suspect that altar boys traditionally wore the “C&S” in part because a cassock, alb and a cincture would have appeared just a little too clerical for many peoples’ tastes. Had that been the garb of altar boys in the past I can guarnatee you that no one would be clammoring over a desire to wear the “C&S” today while serving Mass.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

I suspect that altar boys traditionally wore the “C&S” in part because a cassock, alb and a cincture would have appeared just a little too clerical for many peoples’ tastes. Had that been the garb of altar boys in the past I can guarnatee you that no one would be clammoring over a desire to wear the “C&S” today while serving Mass.

I have worn a Cassock, Surplice, and black mozzetta before. Looked dashing! I have seen pictures of Altar Boys wearing Cassock, Surplice, fascia, and even a biretta. I have worn a cincture as well, but it was never seen on the outside. Personally I take more issue with purple and red cassocks (no matter how much I’d like to wear one!).

 

[John_of_Patmos]

I have worn a Cassock, Surplice, and black mozzetta before. Looked dashing! I have seen pictures of Altar Boys wearing Cassock, Surplice, fascia, and even a biretta. I have worn a cincture as well, but it was never seen on the outside. Personally I take more issue with purple and red cassocks (no matter how much I’d like to wear one!).

Really!?
I love birettas.
I agree about the cincture looking too clerical.

 

[Exorcist]

I have worn a Cassock, Surplice, and black mozzetta before. Looked dashing! I have seen pictures of Altar Boys wearing Cassock, Surplice, fascia, and even a biretta. I have worn a cincture as well, but it was never seen on the outside. Personally I take more issue with purple and red cassocks (no matter how much I’d like to wear one!).

It was not uncommon in some ethnic parishes in the US a long time ago to dress-up altar boys in priestly choir dress + surplice and mozzetta as you noted. Thank goodness that has stopped. Purple/violet cassocks should never be worn by servers. There is a history of red being worn by some servers but it gets a little dicey when they are adults…

I’m curious, does your archbishop (a good guy in my book) wear sandals at Sunday Mass? Does he also wear his Franciscan habit?

 

[Alfonsus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist
There is nothing more or less proper about wearing an amice. Wearing a cincture by the laity is a little problematic (although widely done) because of what is associated (chastity) with wearing it.
If alb is used, cincture is assumed:
Quote:
GIRM 119 (emphasis mine). In the sacristy, the sacred vestments (cf. nos. 337-341) for the priest, the deacon, and other ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration:

For the priest: the alb, the stole, and the chasuble;

For the deacon: the alb, the stole, and the dalmatic; the dalmatic may be omitted, however, either out of necessity or on account of a lesser degree of solemnity;

For the other ministers: albs or other lawfully approved attire.[96]

All who wear an alb should use a cincture and an amice unless, due to the form of the alb, they are not needed.

---

Absolutely not. While cinctures are routinely worn by the laity, the have a strong symbolism that is not supported by that common use.

That is if you use cincture without an alb, for instance along with a religious habit or as a devotional practice (the cincture of St. Joseph or St. Philomena for instance).

As a Liturgical vestment, the GIRM stated that if you use alb, amice and cincture is normally part of the parcel, since the GIRM 119 said:

All who wear an alb should use a cincture and an amice unless, due to the form of the alb, they are not needed.

It does say that cincture and amice can be go away with if the design of the alb do not need them. But the reason given is not because someone did not take a vow of chastity. The consideration is in design.

A priest or deacon then can wear an alb without cincture and amice if the alb design is made this way.

Who wears alb? GIRM 119 said all other ministers that is not a priest or a deacon (this includes the lay) too expected to wear an alb, or if the bishop approved different attire for his diocese they can use this instead the alb.

Thus a lay person when serving, using over the counter alb (or traditional alb if you may), is expected to comply with GIRM 119 to wear also an amice and a cincture.

 

[Exorcist]

All who wear an alb should use a cincture and an amice unless, due to the form of the alb, they are not needed.

That is if you use cincture without an alb, for instance along with a religious habit or as a devotional practice (the cincture of St. Joseph or St. Philomena for instance).

As a Liturgical vestment, the GIRM stated that if you use alb, amice and cincture is normally part of the parcel, since the GIRM 119 said:

It does say that cincture and amice can be go away with if the design of the alb do not need them. But the reason given is not because someone did not take a vow of chastity. The consideration is in design.

A priest or deacon then can wear an alb without cincture and amice if the alb design is made this way.

Who wears alb? GIRM 119 said all other ministers that is not a priest or a deacon (this includes the lay) too expected to wear an alb, or if the bishop approved different attire for his diocese they can use this instead the alb.

Thus a lay person when serving, using over the counter alb (or traditional alb if you may), is expected to comply with GIRM 119 to wear also an amice and a cincture.

The symbolism of the cincture doesn’t change. The amice also has strong priestly symbolism. Given those facts, that’s why many who chose albs for servers, choose models that don’t require amices or cinctures which makes good sense.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

not true. I have seen lay people who server, sing in the choir ( schola Cantorum) who were cassock and surplice. The all white albs, are only one variation for servers. Personally I do not like them and I guess is one of the many things people thought MUST be changed because of vatican II. I wear a cassock and surplice when serving or singing in the choir.
I do believe however, there are surplices specifically for seminarians and priests.
Also, they have their own cassocks.

Hi guys.
So I’m thinking about getting back into serving at the Mass. My Parish uses white albs. I prefer the cassock and surplice, and another parish near uses these for lay altar servers. Anyway, I read that only those in orders may wear the c&s. Could I still potentially serve Mass at the second parish, wearing the c&s, without violating a liturgical rule or canon?

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

Really!?
I love birettas.
I agree about the cincture looking too clerical.

Let me clarify. The cincture was the white rope alb variety, not a fascia. It was not visible outside the vestments.

Also, though I have never worn a biretta during mass, I once snuck a peek of me wearing one in the mirror in the sacristy. It fit perfectly.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

I’m curious, does your archbishop (a good guy in my book) wear sandals at Sunday Mass? Does he also wear his Franciscan habit?

Yes, he does(much to my chagrin). He wears his hood on his habit outside the chasuble, similar to the lads on EWTN. Yes,His Eminence is a fine man.

 

[englishredrose]

Really!?
I love birettas.
I agree about the cincture looking too clerical.

Choirs can wear birettas too I think or at least that what one priest lead us to believe way back in 1986 when we first had choir gowns and I wanted ‘the hat’ to go with it and the priest said we could as they be birettas, but the choir leader said no thankfully I think Though we changed our choir gowns now.
As a server I wear cassock and suplice and its nice and easy unlike before with all the tie ups etc