Lay/third orders

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aazucena

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Hello all,

For some time now, I have been attracted to the concept of third orders. I believe I am called to live a rich spiritual life and I think that a third order may be helpful in that. Most of my reading has been focused on the lay dominicans. However, I have a few concerns:
  1. As I understand it, being part of a lay order has a strong community component. Yet, I haven’t settled down yet, I am still undergoing my education as a young adult. This means I will probably move a lot in the few years between my studies and work.
  2. From looking up stuff online, most members of lay orders seem in the 45+ age range.
I am hesitant to approach a local chapter of lay dominicans (on others) or any other if I know that chances are that I will only be in town for a couple of years. Similarly the age issue makes me wonder if I am too young to think about this, though I know that Bl Pier Giorgio was a young member.

I have also thought about Opus Dei as they are everywhere, but I am not sure yet. The bottom line is that I would like to enrich my spiritual life in a more structured way beyond the sacraments, spiritual reading, etc. I’d appreciate your thoughts or suggestions. Thanks.
 
aazucena said:
Hello all,

For some time now, I have been attracted to the concept of third orders. I believe I am called to live a rich spiritual life and I think that a third order may be helpful in that. Most of my reading has been focused on the lay dominicans. However, I have a few concerns:
  1. As I understand it, being part of a lay order has a strong community component. Yet, I haven’t settled down yet, I am still undergoing my education as a young adult. This means I will probably move a lot in the few years between my studies and work.
  2. From looking up stuff online, most members of lay orders seem in the 45+ age range.
I am hesitant to approach a local chapter of lay dominicans (on others) or any other if I know that chances are that I will only be in town for a couple of years. Similarly the age issue makes me wonder if I am too young to think about this, though I know that Bl Pier Giorgio was a young member.

I have also thought about Opus Dei as they are everywhere, but I am not sure yet. The bottom line is that I would like to enrich my spiritual life in a more structured way beyond the sacraments, spiritual reading, etc. I’d appreciate your thoughts or suggestions. Thanks.
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Approach those religious orders, im sure they would answer all your queries, if you dont want to go there in person, phone them, email them, write them a letter,
 
Age can be young adult or older adult. Where one is can change in life anyhow. And sometimes there are “isolated members”

Age varies from group to group. A university group will have younger members usually.
 
Historical Third Orders

Secular Franciscan Order (Franciscan Tertiaries)
Lay Dominicans ( Dominican Tertiaries)
Secular Order of the Most Holy Trinity (Trinitarian Tertiaries)
Mercedarian Third Order (Mercedarian Tertiaries)
Lay Carmelite Third Order (Carmelite Tertiaries)
Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites (Discalced Carmelite Tertiaries)
Secular Servites (Servite Tertiaries)
Secular Augustinians (Augustinian Tertiaries)
Secular Augustinian Recollects (Augustinian Recollect Tertiaries)
Minims Third Order
Praemonstrian Third Order

Some Orders that have only one branch today…had more than one in history. Such as a discalced branch. The above however all exist currently.

and then not third order -but also a lay vocation are the Benedictine oblates of a particular monastery.
 
Bookcat said:
Historical Third Orders

Secular Franciscan Order (Franciscan Tertiaries)
Lay Dominicans ( Dominican Tertiaries)
Secular Order of the Most Holy Trinity (Trinitarian Tertiaries)
Mercedarian Third Order (Mercedarian Tertiaries)
Lay Carmelite Third Order (Carmelite Tertiaries)
Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites (Discalced Carmelite Tertiaries)
Secular Servites (Servite Tertiaries)
Secular Augustinians (Augustinian Tertiaries)
Secular Augustinian Recollects (Augustinian Recollect Tertiaries)
Minims Third Order
Praemonstrian Third Order

Some Orders that have only one branch today…had more than one in history. Such as a discalced branch. The above however all exist currently.

and then not third order -but also a lay vocation are the Benedictine oblates of a particular monastery.
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Small correction: The secular Carmelites began as a third order (“tertiary”), but no longer are a third order. It is inaccurate to refer to a secular Carmelite as a “tertiary.” But, at least at this point, the lay Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (the Calced) are still considered “tertiaries.”
 
Tabby said:
Small correction: The secular Carmelites began as a third order (“tertiary”), but no longer are a third order. It is inaccurate to refer to a secular Carmelite as a “tertiary.” But, at least at this point, the lay Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (the Calced) are still considered “tertiaries.”
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yes I know but… one can I would think still call all of the above (except the oblates) – “tertiaries” (tertiary) even if they are called other things.

🙂

For example one could say I am a “lay such and such” or I am a “such and such tertiary” or I am a “secular such and such” these names get used — often one for the other…

Now of course if a member of a particular order has legislation etc that states they are not to call them selves “such and such” well they are to follow such.

But if I am say writing about the secular orders – I might use the term “tertiary” to describe the members of such orders.

Tis the historical term similar to “religious” for those who are in the consecrated state in a religious order. A person going to confession could state (baring the above) “I am a tertiary, and am married etc” as their description of their state in life (they could also of course say I am a secular such and such".

Such are my thoughts.

Though one can note too that over the ages some where not called “tertiaries” from the get go but later called such…though they were from the get go.
 
Interestingly here is the Congregation responsible for all of them in Rome:

THE CONGREGATION FOR INSTITUTES OF CONSECRATED LIFE
AND SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE

From the Vatican Website

“**The Congregation is responsible for everything which concerns institutes of consecrated life (orders and religious congregations, both of men and of women, secular institutes) and **societies of apostolic life regarding their government, discipline, studies, goods, rights, and privileges. It is competent also for matters regarding the eremetical life, consecrated virgins and their related associations, and new forms of consecrated life. Its competence extends to all aspects of consecrated life: Christian life, religious life, clerical life; the relationship is of a personal character and has no territorial limits; certain determined questions of their members, however, are remanded to the competence of other Congregations. This Congregation also can dispense those who are subject to it from the common law. Further, it is competent for associations of the faithful erected with the intention of becoming institutes of consecrated life or societies of apostolic life, and for Third Orders Secular.”
 
Tabby said:
Small correction: The secular Carmelites began as a third order (“tertiary”), but no longer are a third order. It is inaccurate to refer to a secular Carmelite as a “tertiary.” But, at least at this point, the lay Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (the Calced) are still considered “tertiaries.”
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Here is a segment from the Preface of the Constitutions of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites:
The great Teresian Carmelite family is present in the world in many forms. The nucleus of this family is the Order of Discalced Carmelites B the friars, the enclosed nuns, the seculars. It is the one Order with the same charism. The Order is nourished by the long tradition of Carmel, expressed in the Rule of Saint Albert and the doctrine of the Carmelite Doctors of the Church and the Order’s other saints.
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The ritual and the culture of the OCDS and the TOC’s are different, as the TOC’s apostolate tends to be more external while the OCDS is more internal. I’ve also talked to members of both groups, and the TOC’s say that they’re almost identical, whereas the OCDS say that no, they are most definitely different. :rolleyes:

The Rule, however, is essentially the same: mental prayer, spriritual reading, daily Mass, etc. Also, the OCDS groups are under the direct leadership of the Discalced Carmelite Friars according to the Provencial government structure, like the TOC’s. Also, until the Rule was changed to the current Constitutions, the Discalced groups were called the Third (Secular) Order of Our Blessed Lady of Mount Carmel and St. Teresa of Jesus (see graphic below). Also, Secular Discalced Carmelites are to be buried in their “habit”, a large brown Scapular. In a nutshell, they are considered a part of the Carmelite religious order from the time they are clothed, with all the blessings and obligations that come with the various states of promises that they find themselves in.

So while I’m not 100% up on my Discalced Carmelite Secular history, I do feel pretty confident in saying that while the canonical status of the groups might be slightly different, the form and function is virtually identical. I think a choice between the two comes down to which one is available, or which culture and charism that a person feels is more God’s calling for them.

http://www.sistersofcarmel.com/pics...dy-of-mount-carmel-and-st-teresa-of-jesus.jpg
 
as the TOC’s apostolate tends to be more external while the OCDS is more internal.
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Not sure I agree with that, at least not in my experience. I know people who have been in formation in both and their experience was that it was fairly similar. As TOC’s we study St John, St Teresa, and St Therese (all OCD saints and Doctors) more than O. Carm saints, at least in my community.
Also, Secular Discalced Carmelites are to be buried in their “habit”, a large brown Scapular.
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TOC’s have a similar habit, which we “may” (not “must”) be buried in.
 
The Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites changed from 3rd order to Secular, is because religious were able to become 3rd Order Carmelites. Pope John Paul II was a 3rd order Carmelite.

As a result, the order wanted to distinguish between religious who were 3rd order members, and laity, or secular members.

Jim
 
What do you think of third orders vs a personal prelature (Opus Dei)?
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Jim,

I agree.
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I do too. Look at the charisms of the order or association that you want to associate yourself with. I am a Benedictine Oblate because I feel the Holy Rule fits in well with my life and my spirituality.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites changed from 3rd order to Secular, is because religious were able to become 3rd Order Carmelites. Pope John Paul II was a 3rd order Carmelite.

As a result, the order wanted to distinguish between religious who were 3rd order members, and laity, or secular members.

Jim
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The reason for the name change which took place in many of the orders (they are still under the same CIC 303 --still the "tertiary vocation’ one could say…still tertiaries) is to bring out the secular nature. Especially of the lay vocation.

There where always third order religious (and still are such as the TOR) – these are called “third order regular”. They are religious.

The secular orders are “third orders secular”. Secular Priests can join secular third orders – for they are secular not religious (The Pope was a secular Priest so became a third order secular).

Religious are religious and never secular third order members. If a secular tertiary becomes a religious – his new religious vows and state suspend the former. If he later leaves – the former revives.
 
Thank you all for your answers. Would you have any advice for me as I explore the different charismas?
 
Bookcat said:
The reason for the name change which took place in many of the orders (they are still under the same CIC 303 --still the "tertiary vocation’ one could say…still tertiaries) is to bring out the secular nature. Especially of the lay vocation.

There where always third order religious (and still are such as the TOR) – these are called “third order regular”. They are religious.

The secular orders are “third orders secular”. Secular Priests can join secular third orders – for they are secular not religious (The Pope was a secular Priest so became a third order secular).

Religious are religious and never secular third order members. If a secular tertiary becomes a religious – his new religious vows and state suspend the former. If he later leaves – the former revives.
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Part of the reason too was the fact that members of the 3d orders began acting as if they were religious. Some began wearing full habits like nuns and friars.

It became apparent to the superiors that they had to get the mind-set of the members in the proper perspective.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Part of the reason too was the fact that members of the 3d orders began acting as if they were religious. Some began wearing full habits like nuns and friars.

It became apparent to the superiors that they had to get the mind-set of the members in the proper perspective.

Jim
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Yes in* some cases *they in fact permitted to wear a full habit. It was the full *tertiary habit /I -(third order secular).

Such was the on the permission of the superiors.

But yes such would be rather rare these days due to the confusion that there would be.

And yes it is very important that the third orders secular know very well the the “secular character” of their vocation. Hence often the word secular is emphasised.*
 
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